Hindsight is 20/20, were these the right decisions?

[BlueBaron]

we never do anything trade wise to make us ebtter until there's this magic time that we're a cup contender to everyone's satisfaction?

Well a lot of guys want anyone gone the minute they hit 24 years old

Our fans, myself included, are largely so attached to our prospects we don't want to part with anyone. That leaves picks, which drives the draft pick fetish club insane.

Personally I would like to see a permanent solution to this #4 C problem. I would not mind keeping Plekanec.

If we don't sign Carlson then I think we have to trade for a D, but management may be more patient than I am.

There is a segment that complain about everything, you just have to tune them out or mock them IMO.

 

[mammothCacti]

I've seen enough of both, I'm not convinced either is anything more than a back-up at the NHL level. They both strike me as AAAA goalies, similar to how Marincin is a AAAA defenseman: too good for the minors, not good enough to be a significant player in the big leagues. We don't have a Hart, Sorokin, Samsonov type that is trending to become a 1A starter in the next 5 years. How long can Freddy's body hold up playing games in the high 60s + playoffs?

Man, but Sparks' numbers at least rivals that of guys like Matt Murray and Tuuka Rask when they were in the AHL at just a year or two younger.

Can it be all attributed to the Marlies d core?

 

[Martin Skoula]

Man, but Sparks' numbers at least rivals that of guys like Matt Murray and Tuuka Rask when they were in the AHL at just a year or two younger.

Can it be all attributed to the Marlies d core?

I guess we'll see. If he was putting up those stats on a team that played defense like the Leafs I'd be blown away, but this Marlies group is really responsible defensively top to bottom. The forwards especially, pretty much every one of them is a strong two-way player.

 

[Marmoset]

It may not of been going "all in", however, it was an attempt to upgrade our ability to compete directly with Boston. If it wasn't done to better compete against Boston, then, why spend the assets to acquire him?

They traded for Boyle last season to try to get to the playoffs. It was successful. This season, Plekanec was acquired in an attempt to get passed Boston. Well, it failed! We lost assets for absolutely no improvement to the season prior.

I realize hindsight is in the title of this thread, but I'm curious - if the Leafs win game 7, do you consider the Plekanec trade to be a success? I didn't love the trade, but without him they probably go down in 5 or 6 games instead of 7 because he did a very good job filling Kadri's spot.

Does Pittsburgh trading for Ryan Reaves get treated as a success if he brings them a cup, even if the trade looks ridiculous to almost everyone? Just one other example.

I actually agree that the Leafs should have been keeping and using their picks, but I don't think it's the end of the world. They still have their 7 picks (with slight changes in the order) which is more than most teams close to them in the standings. It's not like the Leafs are back to having their first pick around 70th overall.

 

[Legion34]

The only trade we really made was for Plekanec. And that was because Gauthier couldn’t handle it. We tried to give the job to a kid. It didn’t work so stop gap. Not everything goes perfectly

Of course I wouldn’t be surprised if gards asks for a trade so we won’t have to worry this year

 

[Funk21]

If we are just going to look at the past couple of years and throw stones at our decision making here is how I see things:

2016/2017
Brian Boyle-Frankly we needed him. I don’t know if we make the playoffs without him. The first round against Washington was a toss us and unfortunately we got some bad bounces.

2017/2018
Hainsey-wasn’t happy about this in the offseason but turned out to be our best signing in the offseason IMO. He just isn’t a 1/2 and was overworked.

Marleau-this was a bigger overpayment and one that may be an issue in the contracts third year. Yes he had a good regular season and playoffs. He brought that veteran presence and likely helped Marner develop. Not terrible but not great signing.

TDL moves

Komarov-Should have been moved. All year he was an offensive black hole who was getting way to much ice time. He had started to slip and we could have easily gotten a mid to late round pick.

JVR-sure he scores goals but he leaves you wanting in so many areas. We were in the playoffs at the TDL with very little chance of falling out. We could have grabbed a 1st plus a decent prospect if we dumped him.

Bozak-unlike some others I would have kept Bozak because I don’t believe the return for him would have been that high. Furthermore our C position was and is not as strong as great deal of teams in the playoffs so subtracting would only hurt us.

Plekanic-high price to pay for him and his disappearance for the remainder of the regular season. To his credit he stepped it up in the playoffs. Again I don’t think we were ready to take that next step so this was a waste of an asset.

Lastly I am not a fan of what Hunter did with our second round pick in 2016. Korskov? Really? With Carter Hart on the board and our lack of elite goaltenders in our system you take Korskov. There are another 5-7 names I could mention but it hurts too much.

 

[Halla]

Leafs led into the 3rd period of game 7...that isnt exactly putting toronto in its place.
based on your analysis, pretty much every team that doesnt win the cup made a mistake by not trading pending UFA and paying for a rental

team record for wins and points. huge step in the right direction. 36pt more than we had 2 seasons ago.
should be 110+ next year

 

[Halla]

marleau with 31g/52pts (reg. season and playoffs) not on the first unit PP. Exactly what we were looking for outta him.

 

[Mess]

marleau with 31g/52pts (reg. season and playoffs) not on the first unit PP. Exactly what we were looking for outta him.

Lou Lam dropped the ball on this one based on the Leafs well known need was improving the defense so adding a 38 year old winger to a team already deep on the wing was adding to a strength and avoiding addressing a weakness.

Once he did sign Marleau he should have immediately dealt JVR for a defense upgrade.. He tried that on Hamonic and failed but should have continued on until he added a top 4 Dman for JVR last summer.

Then we also wouldn't be sitting here today watching a 36 goal winger walk for free and no longer a valuable asset to fix a leaky defense.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

If Moore works out better or Fehr keeps his mouth shut they probably don't need to add the depth centre.

If we couldn't fill the 4C with a prospect within our system, does that say something about our prospect depth? Its something I've wondered about.

 

[ULF_55]

If we couldn't fill the 4C with a prospect within our system, does that say something about our prospect depth? Its something I've wondered about.

Yes and no.

Matthews - 20
Nylander - 22

Both are centers, just Babcock isn't in a rush with Nylander.

That is where the prospect depth landed. For some other teams their prospect centers might be / still are developing and could have been called up.

The lack of center depth is really at the NHL level, and not the prospect level, and that is reflective of the previous management group. Had Gauthier panned out he'd be their 4th. line center, he was drafted in 2013. Last center drafted that has made the NHL (as a full time NHLer) with the Leafs was 2009, Kadri (other than Matthews/Nylander).

 

[ShaneFalco]

Which of Washington or Boston were you expecting us to beat? I don't mean which one did you think we could beat, or had a good chance to beat - Which one were you actually, truly expecting us to beat?

I would say it's all a learning experience until we're expected to win and we don't. Then there shouldn't really be many more surprises. You've said yourself that they're only 2 years removed from last place, and relying on a lot of 20-year-old kids to help lead the charge - certainly the give-up point hasn't hit already.

As far as holes on the team go, I honestly believe that between the core we have now, the prospets we have in the system, and the draft picks we have at our disposal, the only hole we truly have right now is patience.

I didn’t think they’d beat either team
I like our core but you cn’t pretend the holes aren’t’t there, or will be easily addressed.

 

[ShaneFalco]

If we couldn't fill the 4C with a prospect within our system, does that say something about our prospect depth? Its something I've wondered about.

Yes depth at C has been a problem for years. Still is

 

[glucker]

I think what Boston did was put Toronto in their place, despite what most Leaf fans (and management?) believed Toronto is still a rebuilding team. With that said let us look back on these decisions,

Marleau (3yr contract ending 2019-20 @ 6.25m/yr) - There is no doubt Toronto paid extra for his experience but was his experience worth sitting Leivo the entire year or not being able to call up a Marlie?

2nd Round Draft picks - Boyle and Plekanec, each costing Toronto a 2nd round pick and both were unable to move the needle, even in the slightest. Dermott, Grundstrom, Korshkov are to name a very few 2nd round picks Toronto have made

Keeping JVR/Bozak/Komarov: I have no idea what value Toronto would have gotten for these players, but it certainly is going to be more when these players walk (I'm of the opinion of letting them walk. I would be interested in Bozak playing 4C and 4C money).

1)Marleau gave us a fighting chance in game 7. Also gave us a killer shutdown line with Kadri and Marner. Definitely a good signing.

2) leafs still pick in the second round. It’s impossible to say that these guys didn’t move the needle. Plekanec’s work vs Bergeron/Marchand is likely what pushed the game to 7.

3) you don’t trade UFAs when you’re going to the playoffs. Keeping them was easily the right choice. Keeping them going forward really depends on what they sign for.

 

[BlueBaron]

If we are just going to look at the past couple of years and throw stones at our decision making here is how I see things:

2016/2017
Brian Boyle-Frankly we needed him. I don’t know if we make the playoffs without him. The first round against Washington was a toss us and unfortunately we got some bad bounces.

2017/2018
Hainsey-wasn’t happy about this in the offseason but turned out to be our best signing in the offseason IMO. He just isn’t a 1/2 and was overworked.

Marleau-this was a bigger overpayment and one that may be an issue in the contracts third year. Yes he had a good regular season and playoffs. He brought that veteran presence and likely helped Marner develop. Not terrible but not great signing.

TDL moves

Komarov-Should have been moved. All year he was an offensive black hole who was getting way to much ice time. He had started to slip and we could have easily gotten a mid to late round pick.

JVR-sure he scores goals but he leaves you wanting in so many areas. We were in the playoffs at the TDL with very little chance of falling out. We could have grabbed a 1st plus a decent prospect if we dumped him.

Bozak-unlike some others I would have kept Bozak because I don’t believe the return for him would have been that high. Furthermore our C position was and is not as strong as great deal of teams in the playoffs so subtracting would only hurt us.

Plekanic-high price to pay for him and his disappearance for the remainder of the regular season. To his credit he stepped it up in the playoffs. Again I don’t think we were ready to take that next step so this was a waste of an asset.

Lastly I am not a fan of what Hunter did with our second round pick in 2016. Korskov? Really? With Carter Hart on the board and our lack of elite goaltenders in our system you take Korskov. There are another 5-7 names I could mention but it hurts too much.

The next step would have been the 2nd round, which we came damn close to.

It's painfully obvious the biggest gap between us and Tampa/Boston is we became a different team in the Playoffs. The only solution to that is experience. If we had made the second round, it's hard to put a value on that experience.

In the end it is what it is. If we'd made the 2nd round I doubt anyone but Playoff Tank Nation would be complaining and they would have complained even if we won the cup.

Our prospect situation is good, our draft pick situation is good, our team is trending in the right direction. We could afford to gamble a little.

 

[IBeL34f]

I didn’t think they’d beat either team
I like our core but you cn’t pretend the holes aren’t’t there, or will be easily addressed.

The holes that I see are experience in our developing core, commitment to defensive responsibility from all 12 Forwards, and a top-pairing D.

Experience will only be fixed with time. If after only 2 years you're getting frustrated that the kids aren't beating teams you don't even expect to beat, then you simply need to learn to be more patient.

Commitment to defensive responsibility is something that I think we start to see improve when we move on from guys like JVR, whom Babcock doesn't trust against tough competition at 5v5. Developing more Hymans, Browns, Kapanens and Johnssons with the Marlies and promoting them up the lineup as spots become available will go a long way to solidifying our team D.

A top-pairing D may not be easily addressed, but in regards to a conversation about the pros and cons of trading a 2nd-round pick 2 years in a row, I would certainly suggest that, realistically, there is a much better chance we address it through the development of Liljegren or Dermott, or using a 1st-round pick, than one of these late 2nd-round picks people are lamenting. But even if there is a studly Defenseman just sitting there waiting for us in the 2nd round, we do still have 2nd-round picks, or we can always try and acquire more.

 

[Orfieus]

I never said Leo was as good as Marleau, my point is Marleau is a vet and not in the Leafs long-term plans. How about instead of playing a vet put in a Leo/Johnsson/some other Marlie and see what we have in the player

I wonder if with hindsight that Marleau himself has any 2nd thoughts??

Playing 20 years for the SJ and leaving for TOR because he thought the grass was greener and now seeing his former team more Cup competitive than his current one and still playing must bring up some regrets at his decision to leave.

lol, I was thinking the exact same thing

 

[Not My Tempo]

The only problem I have with Marleaus contract is the NMC they gave him. I don’t think people realize just how badly that might screw us if Marner and Matthews don’t resign this summer and put up monster seasons next year

 

[Maplebeasts]

The only problem I have with Marleaus contract is the NMC they gave him. I don’t think people realize just how badly that might screw us if Marner and Matthews don’t resign this summer and put up monster seasons next year

It won't be a problem because it's a high cap hit with very little real salary in the third year. It's structured to be attractive to cap floor teams.

 

[Sypher04]

Playoff bound teams don't dump 35 goal scorers. They just don't. If he could've been moved for a D upgrade, as we obviously tried, at the draft a year ago JVR would have moved, but imo it was always the most likely scenario that if he started the season on the team, he'd finish it too.

We spent the majority of this season somewhere around 6th in the entire league. Selling was never likely.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Playoff bound teams don't dump 35 goal scorers. They just don't. If he could've been moved for a D upgrade, as we obviously tried, at the draft a year ago JVR would have moved, but imo it was always the most likely scenario that if he started the season on the team, he'd finish it too.

We spent the majority of this season somewhere around 6th in the entire league. Selling was never likely.

At one point in January we were 16th, "dumping" JVR at that time would have been just fine.

 

[ACC1224]

At one point in January we were 16th, "dumping" JVR at that time would have been just fine.

Too early to scrap the season, IMO.

 

[ShaneFalco]

At one point in January we were 16th, "dumping" JVR at that time would have been just fine.

Yup and I don't think it would have been nearly as catastrophic as some make it out to be. But we would have lost the "playoff beast"

 

[Sypher04]

At one point in January we were 16th, "dumping" JVR at that time would have been just fine.

Perhaps, but we ended up right back up around 6th. A blip shouldn't necessarily change the plan.

 

[Sypher04]

Yup and I don't think it would have been nearly as catastrophic as some make it out to be. But we would have lost the "playoff beast"

It's not about it being a catastrophe. You just don't see very good teams jettison their top scorer when they're headed to the playoffs.