Hextall's Moves

[kelmitchell]

those who can... do.

those who cant... teach...

Vdv is gonna make a hell of a coach then

 

[Lindberg]

Leier was an injury call-up in December last year. Weal was also an injury callup to close out the year as well. Hextall just doesn’t promote guys based purely off play. Someone on the current roster needs to get hurt first & it has to be a long term injury as well for it to happen.

I think he is going to suffer from his own doing. Trading for a guy who is basically regarded as a cap dump then sticking him in game after game due to the injury of Patrick. He keeps going on and on about how the league is getting younger and speed/skill is important but yet keeps rolling out guys who have neither for the most part. I get not swapping guys in and out or on the road but LHV isn't far away and you get to change things up for a game or two if nothing else.

 

[Rebels57]

I think he is going to suffer from his own doing. Trading for a guy who is basically regarded as a cap dump then sticking him in game after game due to the injury of Patrick. He keeps going on and on about how the league is getting younger and speed/skill is important but yet keeps rolling out guys who have neither for the most part. I get not swapping guys in and out or on the road but LHV isn't far away and you get to change things up for a game or two if nothing else.

It is his biggest flaw at this point.

 

[Tripod]

I think it again comes down to him caring more about 2 years from now than today. No other explanation in trading away 3 years of prime Schenn for picks.

So if that IS his focus, taking on a dump is no big deal in his mind. It allows young guys to "overcook" in the AHL.

But as I said before, if that is what he is going, then finish doing it by trading Simmonds for a haul. He is the last piece worth anything who's contract ends before everyone is ready. So finish what you started. And trade Flip and Manning by the deadline as well. Get what you can.

 

[Rebels57]

Manning has 0 value to the other 30 teams in the NHL.

 

[Tripod]

I disagree. Shit players get traded for at the deadline for depth.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Manning has 0 value to the other 30 teams in the NHL.

Mike Weber went for a 3rd round pick. If they wanted to trade him at the deadline they probably could, but who knows if they want to.

 

[Striiker]

Do we know how many years Hakstols contract is? When it ends?

That's what I'm most interested in, seeing if Hextall extends him or let's him leave.

Edit- Found it. 5 years. This year is this third...

 

[Flyerfan13]

Do we know how many years Hakstols contract is? When it ends?

That's what I'm most interested in, seeing if Hextall extends him or let's him leave.

Edit- Found it. 5 years. This year is this third...

Can u find out how long Scott Gordon's contract is? I have been looking with no luck.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Can u find out how long Scott Gordon's contract is? I have been looking with no luck.

 

[deadhead]

Let me guess, you do?

In sports, like I said, I'm an amateur, in the areas where I'm an expert, yes, I value my opinions.
On this board, I'm just another blind man, but one who's less convinced of his infallibility, than say you.
But I have been watching the Flyers for 4 decades.
And I do study patterns of decision making.

To me, Hextall is pretty transparent, he committed to a complete rebuild and he's sticking with his plan.
He's dumped plenty of veterans, from Hartnell to Kimmo and Coburn to Streit.
He's very likely to trade a few more come February.

And yes, Manning, if he keeps playing like he has this season, will have significant value, there are probably 30 worse D-men getting regular PT.
Filppula will have value, but that will depend on the progress of Patrick and Vorobyev.
Simmonds will have value but less than people think, he's a 31 point ES guy, he's 29 and getting dinged, and would only have a 1 1/2 left on his contract and a tuugh extension decision - so he won't garner nearly as much as Schenn (1 & 3 w/o the Lehtera salary dump).
MacDonald would have value if he's healthy and Hextall retains half his contract.
Read might get you a 6th rd pick if you retain salary
Weise might get you a 5th rd pick if you retain salary and make him a reasonably priced 4th line option.
Lehtera you couldn't give away if you retained half his salary.

 

[Curufinwe]

See the thing is Striiker you have to be an ex player like Hextall to make wise NHL decisions. Even though that guy Jon Cooper totally disproves all of this.

Cooper is riding past their prime dmen like Coburn and Girardi rather than give more minutes to young players.

 

[Lindberg]

Cooper is riding past their prime dmen like Coburn and Girardi rather than give more minutes to young players.

You've clearly missed my point. Jon Cooper is a NHL level coach that has had quite a bit of success while not doing the traditional coaching route.

 

[Lindberg]

Simmonds will have value but less than people think, he's a 31 point ES guy, he's 29 and getting dinged, and would only have a 1 1/2 left on his contract and a tuugh extension decision - so he won't garner nearly as much as Schenn (1 & 3 w/o the Lehtera salary dump).

Simmonds will certainly garner more than Schenn. GMs are in love with his character and style of playing.

 

[deadhead]

Schenn was 26, with a reputation of "untapped talent," with 4 years left on a reasonably priced deal. And he's a physical player.
No, Simmonds will not garner as much as Schenn.

 

[Curufinwe]

Lindblom never had a chance to prove he was NHL ready. He played in 2 or 3 games... clearly they already decided before he stepped on the ice.

Four games.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/2017-18-preseason-appearances-and-ice-times.2391509/

 

[Lindberg]

Four games.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/2017-18-preseason-appearances-and-ice-times.2391509/

What was the point of this post? You're obviously not trying to add value to his point or even argue a counter point.

 

[Lindberg]

Schenn was 26, with a reputation of "untapped talent," with 4 years left on a reasonably priced deal. And he's a physical player.
No, Simmonds will not garner as much as Schenn.

Simmonds is an "all-star", is regarded as one of the best power forwards in the game, willing to protect his team (which I don't really buy into), has the right character/attitude, and could be on a killer contract if 50% is retained (Hextall would be wise to do this).

 

[Curufinwe]

Facts are actually quite important in debates. Especially, when unprovable, outlandish assertions are constantly thrown out by posters who cannot accept that Hextall's opinion on a player's readiness is different from theirs.

And let's not go back to pretending that they use the preseason to decide who makes the team and who doesn't.

It's too small of a sample size. They decide way before then.

If preseason performance actually mattered, Morin and Sanheim would be the two rookie defensemen in the lineup. But they decided before then that they wanted Hagg, so here he is.

 

[Lindberg]

Facts are actually quite important in debates. Especially, when unprovable, outlandish assertions are constantly thrown out by posters who cannot accept that Hextall's opinion on a player's readiness is different from theirs.

I think you're being quite arbitrary about the point. Do you believe that him actually playing in four games vice two/three (even though he wasn't completely sure) somehow changes the argument?

 

[tucson83]

Cooper is riding past their prime dmen like Coburn and Girardi rather than give more minutes to young players.

and they are winning games, maybe that's the problem with the flyers, our inexperienced d isnt getting it done. i mean you look at teams that lost alot of their vets on d like the caps and pens, they are not the same team.

 

[Curufinwe]

I think you're being quite arbitrary about the point. Do you believe that him actually playing in four games vice two/three (even though he wasn't completely sure) somehow changes the argument?

The entire argument that preseason is irrelevant because the GM didn't pick the exact roster Striiker prefers is bull-shit, and minimizing the amount of games Lindblom played (four + the rookie game) is just part of that.

Having actually watched some of Lindblom's October Phantoms games there was more than just bad luck involved in his lack of scoring. His shot did not look threatening at all, unlike when he was rolling in the SHL last year. Could have been the relative lack of space in the AHL, or just a transitory lack of confidence, but it was something he needed to play his way out of, which is easier to do with the extra minutes at the lower level.

 

[Striiker]

Four games.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/2017-18-preseason-appearances-and-ice-times.2391509/

My mistake... but not really a big difference. The point is, not enough time or a large enough sample size to prove whether anyone is ready or not.

The entire argument that preseason is irrelevant because the GM didn't pick the exact roster Striiker prefers is bull-****, and minimizing the amount of games Lindblom played (four + the rookie game) is just part of that.

Having actually watched some of Lindblom's October Phantoms games there was more than just bad luck involved in his lack of scoring. His shot did not look threatening at all, unlike when he was rolling in the SHL last year. Could have been the relative lack of space in the AHL, or just a transitory lack of confidence, but it was something he needed to play his way out of, which is easier to do with the extra minutes at the lower level.

I didn't intentionally minimize how many games he played, I said 2-3 because I couldn't remember exactly. And it's not like I definitively said he played 2 games when he actually played 10. The difference between 2-3 and 4 isn't big and it doesn't really change my point.

I'm also not saying preseason is irrelevant because he did something I disagree with. I 100% believe it's irrelevant because it's too small of a sample size to really make a judgement. Especially when they're not playing against NHL competition. Playing 4 games against half AHL/CHL rosters isn't what GMs are using to decide if a player can play 82 NHL games in a meaningful role.

Just look at Patrick. He made the team and his preseason was basically the same as Lindbloms. It absolutely looks like they decided this before either stepped onto the ice.

And lastly, Lindbloms shot not looking threatening isn't a factor in them sending him down. How would they send him down to work on an issue that appeared after he was sent down? Even if it appeared that way in preseason, it's still too small of a sample size and players look abnormally good or abnormally bad in preseason all the time. On top of being too short, it's also the first game action they've seen in months... some rust to he expected.

Even if we completely ignore this team and all these players/prospects, it just doesn't make sense to think any GM is really building a roster based off a handful of games in September.

 

[deadhead]

They had no options with Patrick, juniors or the NHL, and it was obvious that he had nothing to learn in junior hockey.
With Lindblom, they had the option of sending him to the AHL to work on his game for a couple months.
I'm sure Hextall would have perferred to send Patrick down to the AHL as well.

Four exhibition games is plenty of time for Hextall, he's seen Lindblom's SHL film, he watches practices, he can see how Lindblom plays.
Scoring doesn't affect these decisions, those are stochastic events (random) and shouldn't be used to make that kind of judgement.
Skating, positioning, passing, how the player looks, are they hesitant, not seeing the ice, out of position, flawed fundamentals, etc.
That can easily be seen in four games.

Scoring in the AHL is necessary, but not sufficient:
2008-09 Giroux 33g 17-17 34 +5
2008-09 Marron 80g 23-31 54 +2
2009-10 Marron 67g 11-33 44 -15
2010-11 Gustafsson 72g 5-44 49 -5
2012-13 B Schenn 33g 13-20 33 -14
2012-13 Couts 31g 10-28 28 -8
2014-15 Cousins 64g 22-34 56 +2
2014-15 Laughton 39g 14-13 27 -16
2015-16 Cousins 38g 12-26 38 +13
2016-17 Weal 43g 15-32 47 +11
2016-17 Leier 48g 13-24 37 +10

Struggling to score in the AHL is a bad sign, especially in a player's second season, a lot of guys struggle their first year then pick it up.
But Cousins is a good example, he developed into a top AHL player but just isn't talented enough to produce at the next level.

 

[Striiker]

That's exactly my point...

He's seen a ton of Lindblom already and isn't using 4 preseason games to judge him. He never had a chance, he was always going down.