Hextall's Moves

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LegionOfDoom91

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Jan 25, 2013
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Hakstol was passing up a lot of job security at North Dakota to jump to the NHL. So he did have leverage as it wasn’t a clear as day no brainer to make the jump for him despite it being a higher level & very likely paying him more on an annual basis.

There’s only six active coaches who are 3+ years in at their current teams. That’s not including Babcock who left Detroit as a pursued free agent coach. Those coaches are Bill Peters (Carolina, 4th season), Joel Quenneville (Chicago, 10th season), Peter Laviolette (Nashville, 4th season), Alain Vigneault (New York, 5th season), Jon Cooper (Tampa Bay, 6th season), Barry Trotz (Washington, 4th season), & Paul Maurice (Winnipeg, 4th season).
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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What reduces the odds of success is a GM who won't trade assets to win now.
Look at the veterans brought in by Hextall:
Filppula, Weise, Lehtera, Gordon. That's it.
Gudas on defense.
2 mediocre veteran goalies.
Filppula came with a 4th and 7th
Lehtera with a 2018 1st rd pick
Gudas was a throw in with a 1st and 3rd in the Coburn trade
Weise was a $2.35M a year FA
Gordon minimum salary

And that's over 3+ years. What coach is going to win taking over a mediocre team where the GM trades away all his veterans and brings in the above?
And it's not like there's been a flood of young talent: Provorov, Ghost and Manning on defense, Konency, Weal, Luby and Cousins on offense.
This year they've added Patrick who can't stay healthy, and
Leier, Laughton, Hagg and Sanheim.

Now I'm not complaining, but if Hextall wanted to win now he'd have traded some picks/prospects for decent veteran 3rd line wingers.
Instead, we have to deal with this current team, but not for long.
A flood of talent will start coming shortly, and increase each season.
A year from now all the patches will be long-gone.
Two years from now we'll be replacing limited young players with potential stars.
Three years from now we'll be kicking ass and taking no prisoners! :D
 

Captain Dave Poulin

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Rebuilds are difficult, for sure.

But does matching inexperience behind the bench with inexperience on it seem like a way of improving the odds of success, or reducing them?

I'll be honest Foggster, I thought it was a decent enough idea to try. I just don't think it is working out at all. Maybe it's just Hakstok himself who is out of his depth (he definitely is out of his depth - I mean maybe that is the reason it isn't working), or maybe it is a flawed idea (to bring in a guy used to working with young players) that is better as an idea than it is in reality, I don't know. What we are possibly seeing - though to claim that we know it for sure would be a mistake IMO - is that you probably need someone who is used to working with young players in the NHL to really optimize the situation - someone, I guess, who has dealt with a lot of young players entering the NHL and done well with them. That might be our best bet. If and when Knob gets his shot, it could take him a little while before he gets up to speed - we won't know until we try. Guy Boucher, who was highly thought of, struggled early on as well IIRC and didn't click until his second job.

I don't know, man. I just know that I'm sick of this turd and I'm ready to move on to the next turd.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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you know whos happy Hakslogic took the Flyers job offer ???

the UND athletic dept. thats who.

went right out n won the big one soon as he was gone..

why is it everything assoc. with the Flyers after leaving or before in this case wins big.

grrrr. Flyers org. is like the golden touch for people moving on

Its never-ending.
 

whitstifier

Honor Black Excellence in Hockey
Mar 19, 2013
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I'm waiting for Hakstol's face to fold into itself in a grimace event. Time-space will collapse into itself in a Hakstol-shaped mass, drawing all the negativity from the Flyers' franchise.

Only the happy beet Farmer will remain. Brandishing a hoe instead of a hockey stick and cultivating the empty lot that once housed WFC. He's got a big smile as he imagines the big, juicy beets of the upcoming season.
 

Adam Warlock

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Apr 15, 2006
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Hextlall has done some great things but we are currently in last place in our division...he deserves a good chunk of the blame for that.
 
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Crescent Street

Saturday Nite Hockey
Sep 19, 2004
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Watching the Blues Flames last night- Schenn was interviewed during the intermission and mentioned twice that he lends his early success to the fact the Blues gave him the opportunity to play center where he is far more comfortable. Alluding that the Flyers never really wanted to give him that chance.
 

Freddy The Fog

Don't live in the fast lane. Live on the off ramp
Aug 3, 2005
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What reduces the odds of success is a GM who won't trade assets to win now.
Look at the veterans brought in by Hextall:
Filppula, Weise, Lehtera, Gordon. That's it.
Gudas on defense.
2 mediocre veteran goalies.
Filppula came with a 4th and 7th
Lehtera with a 2018 1st rd pick
Gudas was a throw in with a 1st and 3rd in the Coburn trade
Weise was a $2.35M a year FA
Gordon minimum salary

And that's over 3+ years. What coach is going to win taking over a mediocre team where the GM trades away all his veterans and brings in the above?
And it's not like there's been a flood of young talent: Provorov, Ghost and Manning on defense, Konency, Weal, Luby and Cousins on offense.
This year they've added Patrick who can't stay healthy, and
Leier, Laughton, Hagg and Sanheim.

Now I'm not complaining, but if Hextall wanted to win now he'd have traded some picks/prospects for decent veteran 3rd line wingers.
Instead, we have to deal with this current team, but not for long.
A flood of talent will start coming shortly, and increase each season.
A year from now all the patches will be long-gone.
Two years from now we'll be replacing limited young players with potential stars.
Three years from now we'll be kicking ass and taking no prisoners! :D

Disagree. Look no further than Holmgren and 'trade for assets' method. It's not as easy as choosing the 'right players'. It's not easy at all. This was always likely to be a 5 year process.... and it's worth being patient. We've improved from a under performing first line last year and not much else beyond Provy and Ghost to a great first and fourth line and improved D this year.

We are headed in the right direction.
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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Hakstol has not done a poor job. An aggravating and sometimes perplexing one, with his personnel decisions sometimes, yes. But his record is as good as you could hope for what he's been given. He never throws anyone under the bus. His forechecking system is about as good as I've seen. The team is playing well. They could use more scoring. But Hextall is the one who has Martel in the minors scoring 14 goals in 15 games while Weise, Lehtera, and Read contribute nothing.
 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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Watching the Blues Flames last night- Schenn was interviewed during the intermission and mentioned twice that he lends his early success to the fact the Blues gave him the opportunity to play center where he is far more comfortable. Alluding that the Flyers never really wanted to give him that chance.

He played center most of last season, and didn't start producing at 5 on 5 until they moved him to Couturier's RW. If he was so comfortable down the middle how did this happen?

I have no problem with Schenn at C... right now.

Because he is the best option to be honest. But I want him back at wing as soon as possible.

He will produce at likely a similar rate at C as wing most likely at EV...

But his defensive game is sooooooo exposed at center.

For example:

He has played the easiest minutes of any center on the team this season, playing vs 3rd lines with 62% rel OZ starts... yet:

He has comfortably the worst CA/60 amongst all the guys who have played C this year. And his CA rel is -3.5.

He allows 32 SA/60 at 5v5... which is awful.
His relative SA/60 at 5v5 is -3.6. Which is the worst of any forward.


He is a pretty middling defensive player on the wing... but with the added responsibilities at C he just sucks in his own zone.

He is also not exactly great on the draw.

And as he is not the best puck-carrier through the middle he is giving the puck away close to twice as often as he does when he plays wing.
 

Jtown

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Oct 6, 2010
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Watching the Blues Flames last night- Schenn was interviewed during the intermission and mentioned twice that he lends his early success to the fact the Blues gave him the opportunity to play center where he is far more comfortable. Alluding that the Flyers never really wanted to give him that chance.


This is something I never understood. He was a playmaker in juniors and was a center his whole career except the nhl. Glad he is getting a chance to show what he is capable at center.
 
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Crescent Street

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He played center most of last season, and didn't start producing at 5 on 5 until they moved him to Couturier's RW. If he was so comfortable down the middle how did this happen?
Couldn't tell you. But if you've watched any Blues games this season he looks unbelievable. So much so, Yeo has moved Tarasenko off his line so Schenn can get other wingers going. Perhaps the Blues depth at D, and an actual goalie covers some of the defensive holes Schenn exhibited? It's a team game after all.
 
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dats81

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Couldn't tell you. But if you've watched any Blues games this season he looks unbelievable. So much so, Yeo has moved Tarasenko off his line so Schenn can get other wingers going. Perhaps the Blues depth at D, and an actual goalie covers some of the defensive holes Schenn exhibited? It's a team game after all.

Not only Brayden Schenn. A functioning defense would do wonders for the whole Flyers team. They played like crap for most of last year because the defense was bad in their own zone, bad in transition and bad on the PK.
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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Couldn't tell you. But if you've watched any Blues games this season he looks unbelievable. So much so, Yeo has moved Tarasenko off his line so Schenn can get other wingers going. Perhaps the Blues depth at D, and an actual goalie covers some of the defensive holes Schenn exhibited? It's a team game after all.

I'll be curious to see how long his streak goes if he's separated from Tarasenko. If he can keep going while being separated from Tarasenko, the Flyers made another huge misevaluation at the pro level.
 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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Couldn't tell you. But if you've watched any Blues games this season he looks unbelievable. So much so, Yeo has moved Tarasenko off his line so Schenn can get other wingers going. Perhaps the Blues depth at D, and an actual goalie covers some of the defensive holes Schenn exhibited? It's a team game after all.

Goalies have nothing to do with possession, and I don't see how you can blame Schenn's possession struggles at center last season on the defense when it was the same defense Couturier played with.

When it became clear before the draft that the Flyers would be taking Patrick, how many posters on here wanted him to start on the wing so Schenn could play center?
 
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dats81

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I'll be curious to see how long his streak goes if he's separated from Tarasenko. If he can keep going while being separated from Tarasenko, the Flyers made another huge misevaluation at the pro level.

I don't necessarily see that trade as a misevaluation. Sometimes you have to decide between A and B to move forward because you can't have both and it opens doors that would remain closed otherwise.

At some point in time in the past on a stacked team it came down to Simon Gagne or Justin Williams and even though Williams had a very successfull career elsewhere, that doesn't mean Gagne was less valuable as an elite LW for that team.

Personally, I feel like the decision last year was between Couturier or Schenn at center and for now I'm more than happy with Couts still wearing the orange sweater.
There simply wasn't enough room on the roster for both of them to ever reach their full potential.
 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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It's interesting that the thing Hextall gets criticized for the most is not trusting in young players quickly enough, but when he makes 19 year old Nolan Patrick a top 9 center right away and it doesn't immediately pay dividends, he's given no leeway for that affecting the team negatively.
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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We got good value for Schenn, who was a RW on a team full of RWs
If Patrick was healthy we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.
Next year, with Patrick, Vorobyev and Laughton down the middle, MV depth at C/RW, Rubtsov and hopefully Allison in the AHL, it'll be a moot point.
 

thedjpd

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Goalies have nothing to do with possession, and I don't see how you can blame Schenn's possession struggles at center last season on the defense when it was the same defense Couturier played with.

When it became clear before the draft that the Flyers would be taking Patrick, how many posters on here wanted him to start on the wing so Schenn could play center?
Why would it be Schenn or Patrick? Why couldn’t they have moved Flip and roll with C-S-P?

Because Hextall got enamoured with Frost, who if develops optimally, might reach Schenns production before he was traded.

Actually, in that regard, I think Hextall is like HFboards. Would rather stock pile prospect type assets over proven NHL talent.
 

YEM

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Mar 7, 2010
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Actually, in that regard, I think Hextall is like HFboards. Would rather stock pile prospect type assets over proven NHL talent.
not a bad point
if hexy was on let's make a deal, he'd always be trading his holdings for "what's behind door #2"
 

hatcher

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Sep 30, 2007
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Why would it be Schenn or Patrick? Why couldn’t they have moved Flip and roll with C-S-P?

Because Hextall got enamoured with Frost, who if develops optimally, might reach Schenns production before he was traded.

Actually, in that regard, I think Hextall is like HFboards. Would rather stock pile prospect type assets over proven NHL talent.
This is it. Schenn is cheap hard nosed player that we need and he drafted another midget that might not even make it. Shit trade period. Hexy I don't trust.
 

Stizzle

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Feb 3, 2012
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Why would it be Schenn or Patrick? Why couldn’t they have moved Flip and roll with C-S-P?

Because Hextall got enamoured with Frost, who if develops optimally, might reach Schenns production before he was traded.

Actually, in that regard, I think Hextall is like HFboards. Would rather stock pile prospect type assets over proven NHL talent.

Incorrect. It's because we are rebuilding. Say it out loud. It's not a dirty word. Even if Hextall won't admit it publicly. That's clearly what he is doing.

And guess what? It's a good idea because that will drastically increase the odds of winnning a championship. Not just make the playoffs and pray we get lucky. You know who wins championships? Teams that went through rebuilds like Pittsburgh, LA, and Chicago.
 
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Rebels57

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Why would it be Schenn or Patrick? Why couldn’t they have moved Flip and roll with C-S-P?

Because Hextall got enamoured with Frost, who if develops optimally, might reach Schenns production before he was traded.

Actually, in that regard, I think Hextall is like HFboards. Would rather stock pile prospect type assets over proven NHL talent.

Savagery.
 
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