Line Combos: Helm to start on wing with Datsyuk

[silkyjohnson50]

Helm with Datsyuk isn't a bad idea, I kind of like it. He'll create space, is willing to drive to the net, and is probably the best forward after Z/D at winning puck battles. Remember Holmstrom was a career 4th liner before catching on the Z/D line.

I agree that Helm is one of, if not the best forward after 13 and 40 at winning puck battles largely due to his tenacity and quickness.

Holmstrom is a real curious case. He was the ultimate offensive weapon. Even when he was getting 4th line minutes he was getting big PP minutes. The 98 postseason always boggles my mind. He led the team in even strength scoring that postseason despite having one of the lowest even strength time on ice per game among forwards.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

@Bill_Roose
Joakim Andersson said he's aware that jobs are at stake on the #RedWings fourth line. "I have to get better as a skater. I know that."

Andersson works his tail off. Seriously we can pan his skating but he might have made the biggest gains there in our entire organization just to be below average. Remember watching one of his first games with Grand Rapids and he was noticeably the slowest guy on the entire ice. Made a joke to my buddy that even Tommy McCollum was a better skater and it was only half a joke McCollum was more explosive in his first few strides to get out of the net.

I don't know where he is going to find even more steps, but I am rooting for him. If Andersson doesn't make it, nobody can blame effort or not understanding what it takes. He is a smart guy and when you look at his game a tireless worker in the pursuit of being better. It really makes me admire him and wish the best, ultimately he might be waived, but I will always root for Joker.

 

[SantosHalper]

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Helm
Nyquist-Weiss-Franzen
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco(Alfie)
Miller-Glendening-Abdelkader
Cleary, Andersson

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Smith
Kindl-Quincey
Lashoff

Howard
Gustavsson

 

[Vladdy84]

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Helm
Nyquist-Weiss-Franzen
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco(Alfie)
Miller-Glendening-Abdelkader
Cleary, Andersson

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Smith
Kindl-Quincey
Lashoff

Howard
Gustavsson

That works for me. Ideally Ferraro or Cally beats out Cleary for a spot. But we all know that will never happen.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I agree that Helm is one of, if not the best forward after 13 and 40 at winning puck battles largely due to his tenacity and quickness.

Holmstrom is a real curious case. He was the ultimate offensive weapon. Even when he was getting 4th line minutes he was getting big PP minutes. The 98 postseason always boggles my mind. He led the team in even strength scoring that postseason despite having one of the lowest even strength time on ice per game among forwards.

Holmstrom was a ridiculously effective player. Amazing at winning puck battles and doing the dirty work around the net. Didn't hurt that he was the perfect counterpart to Lidstrom and his precise shot from the point.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Holmstrom was a ridiculously effective player. Amazing at winning puck battles and doing the dirty work around the net. Didn't hurt that he was the perfect counterpart to Lidstrom and his precise shot from the point.

i wonder when the current management realizes this.

 

[Frk It]

Not sure if this has been confirmed before, but...

Babcock said Hiller will be in charge of the power play and will stand next to him on the bench. Babcock said Hiller sees things “offensively†and was recommended by former Wing Dallas Drake.

Granato will run the defense and penalty kill.

Last part scares me a little.

“You’ve gotta be able to convince me,†he said.

Please Hiller convince Babcock that Smith on the PP makes a ton of sense.

And please Hiller and Granato convince Babcock that Cleary has no place in the lineup.

www.freep.com/article/20140909/SPOR...-wings-mike-babcock-new-coaching-staff-duties

 

[Debrincat93]

id much rather see Andersson in the line up over Miller, all day and twice on Saturdays.

 

[Frk It]

id much rather see Andersson in the line up over Miller, all day and twice on Saturdays.

Even though I find Miller is routinely overrate on this board IMO, I would absolutely take Miller over Andersson in the lineup. I think he's easily a better player.

That said Andersson over Glendening is a viable option. Jokers much better offensively, and not much seperates them defensively. I like Glendenings skating and agitating, but I think Andersson brings more to the table offensively.

 

[Heaton]

id much rather see Andersson in the line up over Miller, all day and twice on Saturdays.

In what capacity? Andersson is way too slow and only had real value as a center.

Ideally you would have young players on the 4th line, I'd rather get rid of both Miller and Andersson for Callahan or Ferraro or whatever. Truth be told they're all expendable.

 

[Winger98]

In what capacity? Andersson is way too slow and only had real value as a center.

Ideally you would have young players on the 4th line, I'd rather get rid of both Miller and Andersson for Callahan or Ferraro or whatever. Truth be told they're all expendable.

^^^ Pretty much this. The roster inflexibility that Holland saddles this team with every season is ridiculous. Where we should have spots to move some guys up or down based on camp/merit, we have Miller and Cleary making over a million bucks a piece, and Quincey making $4.5m. Even if we wanted vets as an option, we could have just as easily invited guys like Yip, Konopka, and Tallinder in on PTOs for camp.

 

[Pavels Dog]

id much rather see Andersson in the line up over Miller, all day and twice on Saturdays.

Surprised you can feel so strongly about that. I'm not really sure what Andy brings to a 4th line that Miller doesn't. Andy's always looked bad when he doesn't have speedy and skilled wingers.

^^^ Pretty much this. The roster inflexibility that Holland saddles this team with every season is ridiculous. Where we should have spots to move some guys up or down based on camp/merit, we have Miller and Cleary making over a million bucks a piece, and Quincey making $4.5m. Even if we wanted vets as an option, we could have just as easily invited guys like Yip, Konopka, and Tallinder in on PTOs for camp.

Complain about Cleary and Quincey all you want, but leave Miller out of it. He's a very useful player. Other than not holding the magical promise that a 'prospect' does, he's clearly a better option than Callahan and Ferraro right now. Until Miller starts playing worse, or a prospect outplays him, we keep him.

 

[Vladdy84]

id much rather see Andersson in the line up over Miller, all day and twice on Saturdays.

You serious Clark?

 

[Winger98]

Complain about Cleary and Quincey all you want, but leave Miller out of it. He's a very useful player. Other than not holding the magical promise that a 'prospect' does, he's clearly a better option than Callahan and Ferraro right now. Until Miller starts playing worse, or a prospect outplays him, we keep him.

What exactly does Miller bring that should exclude him from that list? His PK abilities are always touted, but our PK has been mediocre for the past three years. I don't think it would kill us to swap a kid into that spot. Miller himself has seen his +/- fall a bit the last couple of years, along with a slip in his offense. He doesn't bring any real physical game. He's mediocre, not really hurting or helping most nights.

If he brought a game like Maltby or Draper, I'd totally get keeping the guy around. He doesn't, though.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Even though I find Miller is routinely overrate on this board IMO, I would absolutely take Miller over Andersson in the lineup. I think he's easily a better player.

That said Andersson over Glendening is a viable option. Jokers much better offensively, and not much seperates them defensively. I like Glendenings skating and agitating, but I think Andersson brings more to the table offensively.

Agreed with this post.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

If we're strictly talking a 4th line role with the likes of Glendening, Miller, and hopefully Abdelkader, the Miller and Glendening are more valuable than Andersson. Where I see value in Andersson is if we have we wanted someone to step in between Tatar and whoever (Jurco in our dreams) if we have center injuries. Andersson can hold down a 3rd scoring line center spot better than Glendening and obviously Miller could. Plus he can still eat PK minutes as well if needed.

 

[Frk It]

More Babcock on the assistants:

"What I like about Jim Hiller is ... I don't want to say he sees it different than me, but he sees it offensively," Babcock said. "He's got an analytical mind and thinks about it offensively. (Former Red Wing) Dallas Drake gave him a huge plug, Dallas is one of my favorites. They played together (at Northern Michigan and briefly with the Red Wings) and grew up together."

Babcock said of Brewer: "Brew is in charge of us all. He's flat-out just in charge. He said to me (two weeks ago), 'Babs you're not allowed here. These guys need a week without you.' He's different than what I've been around before."

I'm hoping these guys are able to keep Babcock in check of his habits that drive us all insane.

Pretty good stuff in here, definitely worth a read: http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/09/red_wings_mike_babcock_assigns.html

 

[Bench]

NMU during his days was a offensive powerhouse. Not surprising he leans that direction. He played under Comley of more recent Michigan State fame.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

id much rather see Andersson in the line up over Miller, all day and twice on Saturdays.

Not me, I'll take Miller time any day of the week.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

NMU during his days was a offensive powerhouse. Not surprising he leans that direction. He played under Comley of more recent Michigan State fame.

The last time MSU was any good.

 

[Frk It]

Babcock, again saying that best players will play:

“I used to say tie goes to the veteran,†Babcock said of a close competition for a roster spot. “Now, the best player plays. If you’re 22 (years old), it doesn’t make any difference. We’re in that stage of our development.â€

Hopefully he learned from last year.

 

[Frk It]

My "best players will play" lineup -- including the Helm as a 1st line winger decision

Helm-Datsyuk-Zetterberg
Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Miller-Andersson/Glenny-Abby

Kronwall-Big E
Dekeyser-Smith
Quincey-Sproul/Marchenko

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

My "best players will play" lineup -- including the Helm as a 1st line winger decision

Helm-Datsyuk-Zetterberg
Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Miller-Andersson/Glenny-Abby

Kronwall-Big E
Dekeyser-Smith
Quincey-Sproul/Marchenko

My biggest problem with the Helm on the first line decision is that he has to line up on the left at least in my mind. Both Zetterberg and Datsyuk prefer left wing when they are not deployed at center. Now Babcock could be separating Z and D and we just don't know that part yet.

Now we will see, but playing the off wing isn't as easy as some make it. This is part of why Babs goes crazy for the shooting hand. We have guys that can do it, Franzen is a RW he prefers that side, Nyquist cares very little and Tatar seems to be no different in terms of what he likes to do, I would even argue he is more aggressive on the right side. This is not to say Z cannot do it, he is probably the best option because of his talent but he is also the best LW the Wings have hands down.

For instance I have always noticed Abdelkader is much better when deployed on the left. It helps and Helm is the same kind of head down forechecker that fights the puck at times. That angle worries me, hopefully he can erase those concerns, but for me Helm is a LW/C from what I have seen and therefore is not the answer to this situation as our LW is a strength we need to find RW options assuming Alfie doesn't come back. Franzen is one, who is the other?

 

[Frk It]

My biggest problem with the Helm on the first line decision is that he has to line up on the left at least in my mind. Both Zetterberg and Datsyuk prefer left wing when they are not deployed at center. Now Babcock could be separating Z and D and we just don't know that part yet.

Now we will see, but playing the off wing isn't as easy as some make it. This is part of why Babs goes crazy for the shooting hand. We have guys that can do it, Franzen is a RW he prefers that side, Nyquist cares very little and Tatar seems to be no different in terms of what he likes to do, I would even argue he is more aggressive on the right side. This is not to say Z cannot do it, he is probably the best option because of his talent but he is also the best LW the Wings have hands down.

For instance I have always noticed Abdelkader is much better when deployed on the left. It helps and Helm is the same kind of head down forechecker that fights the puck at times. That angle worries me, hopefully he can erase those concerns, but for me Helm is a LW/C from what I have seen and therefore is not the answer to this situation as our LW is a strength we need to find RW options assuming Alfie doesn't come back. Franzen is one, who is the other?

Thought of this as well. A lot of people who prefer the left side when at wing.

I knew Z is almost always a LW when he plays wing, so maybe Helm at RW then?

Only LH forward that I can think of that likes the RW slot is Nyquist, and I believe Jurco?

Does make it tricky when trying to put these lines together. If Helm is on Datsyuks side I want a high end offensive player on the other side. So Zetterberg, Nyquist, or Franzen would be my choices. Even though Tats feasts on matchups on line 3 I think splitting Dats and Z and giving Nyquist to Dats and Tatar to Z could be interesting IMO.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Thought of this as well. A lot of people who prefer the left side when at wing.

I knew Z is almost always a LW when he plays wing, so maybe Helm at RW then?

Only LH forward that I can think of that likes the RW slot is Nyquist, and I believe Jurco?

Does make it tricky when trying to put these lines together. If Helm is on Datsyuks side I want a high end offensive player on the other side. So Zetterberg, Nyquist, or Franzen would be my choices. Even though Tats feasts on matchups on line 3 I think splitting Dats and Z and giving Nyquist to Dats and Tatar to Z could be interesting IMO.

Lots of options though for a guy some still believe is the best coach in the world.

I am on record if we are splitting Datsyuk and Zetterberg, I roll with Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen as our first line.

Should it be Helm - Datsyuk it becomes a case of needing to re-sign Alfie pretty badly my eyes. That or we can try Tatar with Dats before giving Jurco the spot who I think will work better. Tatar is puck dominate, he needs it and that concerns me when bumping him up, it is one of the reasons he and Sheahan work so well together. Riley very rarely holds the puck except on the boards, very direct player they compliment each other so well.

Of course Mantha can play both sides and seems to prefer his off-wing. I still think he is a little far off. Pulkkinen is another guy that could make a case if he has had a great off-season. His skating has improved a lot and might be an ideal fit with Helm and Datsyuk in terms of covering what strides remain, though of note Datsyuk likes to be the high player in the zone, part of why I lean towards Jurco and Alfie. They can play down low and go there a lot, Pulkkinen and Mantha would have to show me more in that regard to flank Datsyuk as he will be out high, he always is.