Value of: Heed, LaDue, Folin, Nelson, Welinski, Santini, Dotchin, C.Wideman or Schmaltz to Edmonton
- Thread starter ChaoticOrange
- Start date
I'm a heed fan, as are most of us sharks fans, but unfortunately the organization isn't. With the resigning of Demelo it's all but given Heed is gonna ride the pine all year.
I'd say he'd probably be available to Edmonton for a 4th, definitely a 3rd (in division tax). Not saying it's smart, but with how they won't play him, it would probably be taken by DW.
I'd say he'd probably be available to Edmonton for a 4th, definitely a 3rd (in division tax). Not saying it's smart, but with how they won't play him, it would probably be taken by DW.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
I wasn't aware of that, never like to see a prospect held back by an ailment.
Although I'd consider Nattinen to have very little value himself and really just included him and Mantha for positional balance.
ChaoticOrange
Registered User
Fair enough. I just really don’t think edmonon would part with Khaira right now. Cheap, tough, well liked, and decently productive. Need more, not less.
780il
edm
Id take Heed for a 4th in a heartbeat. Even for a 3rd thats perfectly fine, however would you be interested in a bigger deal. Say Bear + for Heed and one of your young wingers like Labanc/Meier/etc. I dont know how you value those guys, just asking. More interest in Meier cause Im a big fan. Also Labanc because he can man the pp point so Heed wouldnt be needed if a trade was made for him. Price?
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ChaoticOrange
Registered User
If I had Timo Meier you’d never get him from me. Love his game. I know less about Labanc.
780il
edm
Same here, love the player, probably wont love the price. I think he's perfect to play rw with McNuge or play with Drai to balance the scoring.
Dotchin is an interesting question to me. On the one hand there is a very strong argument for trading him:
- He regressed in a huge way last season.
- With Stralman, Sergachev, and Girardi ahead of him on the right side he isn’t likely to see any playing time next season except in the event of injury or an occasional day off for one of the other RDs.
- If we’re going to give a seventh defenseman a significant amount of playing time next season it should be Koekkoek who has a higher ceiling than Dotchin and a puckmoving and offensive skillset that we could use more of in our blueline, and who unlike Dotchin has never been given a real opportunity to show what he can do with consistent playing time.
- At the same time since he’s waiver-eligible we can’t send him back to the AHL to hone his skills, so he’s likely to spend the bulk of the season in the press box which obviously isn’t going to help him develop.
- With Sergachev playing the right side going forward and Foote and Cernak knocking at the door Dotchin’s future in Tampa doesn’t look any better than his present.
All that being the case I would be perfectly happy if he never plays another shift for the Lightning and we trade him this offseason for whatever we can get. But at the same time I’m not so certain we’re going to do that; here’s why:
- After next season we’re going to be losing Stralman and Girardi from the right side and while it’s highly likely that both Cernak and Foote will be ready by then there’s no guarantee that will be the case.
- Even if Cernak and Foote are ready we don’t have another NHL-caliber RD behind them in the event of injury; I suppose in that situation we could move McDonagh to the right and have Koekkoek and Masin behind Hedman on the left, but that assumes that Koekkoek is still around at that point which is also not guaranteed.
- We don’t have enough playing time to go around to be worth giving Dotchin’s roster spot to another young defenseman, but at the same time it doesn’t make sense to give that spot to a rookie forward who would also spend most of his time in the press box. So unless we bring in a cheap veteran for depth purposes at either forward or defense it’s unlikely we’ll have a more pressing use for Dotchin’s roster spot.
- As big of a proponent of Koekkoek as I am, he seems to be perpetually on Cooper’s shit list for some reason, so I’m not so certain if the Lightning do carry seven defensemen next season that Koekkoek won’t be the odd man out instead of Dotchin.
- Above all Dotchin represents cheap depth that we don’t mind allowing to rot in the press box until such time as he’s needed. We don’t really need that this season but we will the following one after half our starting blue line walks, so unless we can find a better use for his roster spot or are getting something worthwhile for him there’s no real reason to trade him.
So while I personally hope we do move him, both to clear the way for better young defensemen and so I never have to watch one of his bonehead plays again, I won’t be surprised if we keep him around. As big a critic of Dotchin as I am unless we can find a better use for his roster spot it’s probably worth turning down the likes of a fourth round pick just to carry him as cheap disposable depth.
- He regressed in a huge way last season.
- With Stralman, Sergachev, and Girardi ahead of him on the right side he isn’t likely to see any playing time next season except in the event of injury or an occasional day off for one of the other RDs.
- If we’re going to give a seventh defenseman a significant amount of playing time next season it should be Koekkoek who has a higher ceiling than Dotchin and a puckmoving and offensive skillset that we could use more of in our blueline, and who unlike Dotchin has never been given a real opportunity to show what he can do with consistent playing time.
- At the same time since he’s waiver-eligible we can’t send him back to the AHL to hone his skills, so he’s likely to spend the bulk of the season in the press box which obviously isn’t going to help him develop.
- With Sergachev playing the right side going forward and Foote and Cernak knocking at the door Dotchin’s future in Tampa doesn’t look any better than his present.
All that being the case I would be perfectly happy if he never plays another shift for the Lightning and we trade him this offseason for whatever we can get. But at the same time I’m not so certain we’re going to do that; here’s why:
- After next season we’re going to be losing Stralman and Girardi from the right side and while it’s highly likely that both Cernak and Foote will be ready by then there’s no guarantee that will be the case.
- Even if Cernak and Foote are ready we don’t have another NHL-caliber RD behind them in the event of injury; I suppose in that situation we could move McDonagh to the right and have Koekkoek and Masin behind Hedman on the left, but that assumes that Koekkoek is still around at that point which is also not guaranteed.
- We don’t have enough playing time to go around to be worth giving Dotchin’s roster spot to another young defenseman, but at the same time it doesn’t make sense to give that spot to a rookie forward who would also spend most of his time in the press box. So unless we bring in a cheap veteran for depth purposes at either forward or defense it’s unlikely we’ll have a more pressing use for Dotchin’s roster spot.
- As big of a proponent of Koekkoek as I am, he seems to be perpetually on Cooper’s shit list for some reason, so I’m not so certain if the Lightning do carry seven defensemen next season that Koekkoek won’t be the odd man out instead of Dotchin.
- Above all Dotchin represents cheap depth that we don’t mind allowing to rot in the press box until such time as he’s needed. We don’t really need that this season but we will the following one after half our starting blue line walks, so unless we can find a better use for his roster spot or are getting something worthwhile for him there’s no real reason to trade him.
So while I personally hope we do move him, both to clear the way for better young defensemen and so I never have to watch one of his bonehead plays again, I won’t be surprised if we keep him around. As big a critic of Dotchin as I am unless we can find a better use for his roster spot it’s probably worth turning down the likes of a fourth round pick just to carry him as cheap disposable depth.
To pry Timo out would probably cost more than you want to pay. LaBanc is probably available for a somewhat steep price as well, but not as much as Timo. Unless someone makes a move DW can't turn down, it's highly unlikely that either of them gets moved. LaBanc probably only gets moved with a first for a top line player, doubt he goes for a package because of his upside.
Timo is a monster. He's a 21 year old, more well rounded evander kane with less baggage. Very strong on the puck, good shot, very physical, good speed, relentless motor, by all accounts a very coachable player, and an absolute pest in the playoffs.
LaBanc is a lot different. Slower, small, not physical at all, has an absolute laser of a wrist shot that he needs to use more, but incredibly silky mitts and great passing skills.
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Value of Wideman depends on the Karlsson situation and how Jaros matures. Wideman really is only useful on the PP or against 4th line players, so he has very little value to Ottawa as long as Karlsson is there, they are the exact same situational player. Case in point, Wideman was moved to forward last year, although arguably that could say more about Ottawa forwards than their D ......
But if Karlsson goes and a RHD is not returned, they could move Ceci up to offensive minutes, but that only works if Jaros can handle Cecis defensive minutes, which seems quite unlikely at this point. So I would expect them to use Wideman on the PP and then he has more value to Ottawa.
But in all honesty as it stands today? I'd give him up for a 4th and a ham sandwich.
But if Karlsson goes and a RHD is not returned, they could move Ceci up to offensive minutes, but that only works if Jaros can handle Cecis defensive minutes, which seems quite unlikely at this point. So I would expect them to use Wideman on the PP and then he has more value to Ottawa.
But in all honesty as it stands today? I'd give him up for a 4th and a ham sandwich.
ChaoticOrange
Registered User
So looks like Dotchin/Heed/Wideman could all be had relatively cheaply, Folin could be had very cheaply, Santini probably not available, Welinski probably available and ducks fans don’t like it; disagreement on LaDue, Buffalo fans are asleep, Schmaltz probably not available.
Again, I’m not so sure about Dotchin. He probably doesn’t have a future in Tampa unless he takes a big step forward or things go horribly wrong with one of our RD prospects, but after next season we’re going to be in a cap crunch and short on depth on the right side so unless we need his roster spot or are offered something of value for him I’m not sure why we would trade him at this point. I’d happily swap him for a 2nd, a RD prospect with solid NHL potential, or a good bottom six forward who brings something to the table that our own players and prospects do not, but if all we’re looking at getting is a middle round pick or a prospect with little to no hope of making the NHL then we’re probably better off keeping Dotchin as cheap depth until we know for sure he won’t be needed.
ChaoticOrange
Registered User
Fair enough.
Out of curiosity, between Dotchin and Koekkoek, who would be more available? Both guys need waivers I believe. Or are you fine going 13/8?
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
We have Bear who was pretty good in the last 1/4 of the season who is a RHD--for me he is the answer
ChaoticOrange
Registered User
I don’t just want to hand Bear a spot at 21 (and an incredibly young 21 at that, he has a late June birthday) I think it would be better for his development to be playing #1 defenceman minutes in the AHL than playing 13 minutes a night in the NHL. We know he’s good on the powerplay and can make a play but he’s still not very good defensively at the NHL level (but I will blame some of that on last seasons version of Sekera, he made everyone he played with worse)
Still I don’t want to rush either him or Bouchard. Do the smart thing, bring in bodies that can play in that 5-6 spot, and give Bear and Bouchard time.
Although personally I think William Lagesson is more than ready for that 5-6 spot. He was a #2 defenceman for a very good SHL team last year.
ManofSteel55
Registered User
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
and I don't want to give up something for unproven talent and then gift them a role
if we trade for someone--we are then gifting them a role and most of the players on this list are older and have proven very little
ChaoticOrange
Registered User
Thing is though their development won’t be hurt / confidence damaged by being played in a 6-7 role and potentially not seeing the ice every night. We’re talking about a 3rd round pick at most for these guys.
ChaoticOrange
Registered User
Jared Dunn
Registered User
I definitely don't think Heed, Santini or Schmaltz will be dealt outside of a package at this point. Santini especially, literally just signed a 3 year deal and will be given every opportunity to win that 3rd pair spot over Lovejoy (who may actually be a better target as a one year stopgap for Bear/Bouchard). Also as much as half the fans would probably bitch and moan I think the Leafs would kick tires on Dotchin as well since they don't have much muscle in the lineup.
Wideman is probably the best puck mover out of the group, I think that could be a good fit and Ottawa will most likely be in total blow up mode. Feel like LaDue will likely be cheap as well just due to being a victim of the depth chart
Wideman is probably the best puck mover out of the group, I think that could be a good fit and Ottawa will most likely be in total blow up mode. Feel like LaDue will likely be cheap as well just due to being a victim of the depth chart
MarkusKetterer
Shoulda got one game in
Frankly, I don't think Nelson is available. He's depth for us. In fact as a Sabres fan I would be completely fine with Nelson and McCabe being our third pair. However, Bogosian will ruin that 6 seconds into the 1st game of the season.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
if we acquire a guy it well be for the 5/6 role and I do not see the logic in given up a 3rd for that.
Oilers D
Is looking like
Klefbom-Larson
Nurse-Benning (Sic)
Gravel-Russell-Bear-
With the wild card being Bouchard
here are few FREE players who could be had for a maybe a 1 year deal for 1 to 2 mill or less
Toby Einstrom
Brandan Davidson (we know he liked Edmonton and he can play bottom pairing minutes)
Cody Franson
Jakun Karabek
Luca Sbisa
Alex Emlin
we are not looking for a long term solution to replace Sekera right now
IN our system we do have some guys coming that should challange shortly for a role
Bouchard
Jones
Bear
We also have Ryan Stanton who played over 100 NHL in Bako as well
If we want to add a d-man who can play 20 minutes a game--lets talk about moving Benning + something to get it
this list here in bin shopping and we are talking about giving up assets for a player who wont be in our long term plans
I wouldn’t be surprised to see us go 13/8 again. We’ve got plenty of organizational depth at forward but after next season will be rather short on NHL-caliber defensemen, so barring some unforeseen acquisition for whom we need to make room I don’t see why we’d trade one of those two guys just to give his roster spot to a rookie forward to waste away in the press box instead of playing big minutes in Syracuse.
Between the two I’m a much bigger fan of Koekkoek: I think the Lightning have horribly botched his development, and can’t understand why we’ve allowed one defenseman after another to play like hot garbage and yet inexplicably keep their regular spots in the lineup while Koekkoek has yet to get a shot at consistent playing time himself. He’s a great skater and has shown some nice offensive potential in the limited opportunities he’s gotten; I’d love to see us start the season with him on the bottom pairing opposite Girardi and at least give him a chance to play through some growing pains and earn the right to keep that starting spot going forward. But despite Koekkoek’s potential and as much as Dotchin fell out of favor last season, for whatever reason Cooper has never seemed to like Koekkoek very much so I have no idea which would actually be more likely to be traded.
So basically if it were up to me I’d play Koekkoek and look to see if I could get something for Dotchin that would legitimately benefit us: a good bottom six forward with some size and physicality who could help us against teams like Washington, a RD prospect with solid NHL potential who could replenish our organizational depth at the position and replace Dotchin as the fallback option if something goes wrong with Cernak or Foote, or a 2nd round pick which would at least give us a solid chance at drafting a future NHL contributor. But barring something along those lines or a better use for his roster spot I’d keep Dotchin as cheap depth until I was sure he wouldn’t be needed.
Fans are saying Bear is the answer or Bouchard is . I rather go the route of getting an NHL player then ruining Bear or Bouchard . I don't give a shit about ruining a player we can pick up for a mid round draft pick . Be needed a RH PPQB for years . Bear looks to be a steal , Bouchard is highly regarded for his offence sure we can wait and extra 1 or 2 and develop these guys right . Our D could become very good in the next could of season and with centre depth all we need is a could wingers to pan out and we will become a very good team . CO got the right ideal . Buy cheap and hope to find a diamond in the ruff . Save our young guys and give them time to mature and build confidence
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