Healthy Stamkos vs Ovi

[Krewe]

Actually I'd argue Ovi is better playmaker than Stamkos, though I think his recent assist totals are garbage, and I don't watch Stamkos regularly.

My argument would be based on gems like below, though I'm sure Stamkos has some really good ones too.

I mean, you'd be wrong, but you can certainly make the argument. Ovi is obviously a better player / goalscorer / leader but Stamkos has been the better playmaker for at least the last 4+ years

 

[Krewe]

Comparing possibly the best goal scorer of all time to some basically irrelevant guy on Tampa? Just lol.

Stamkos is the second best goalscorer of the lockout era, and looked like he'd end up a top 10 all-time scorer if he didn't lose nearly 3 seasons in his prime to freak injuries

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

No. Healthy Stamkos is an elite goal scorer, but Ovechkin is a legendary goal scorer, considered by most as the greatest goal scorer of all time. His consistency and durability is remarkable. Great 8 is at a different level.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Why are people laughing? Prime Stamkos was almost as good as Ovechkin.

So was prime Jonathan Cheechoo... Unfortunately it takes a little more than doing it for one year.

 

[RageQuit77]

With these historical if-questions anybody can say just about anything and it doesn't mean much. If's probability to happen was and is and going to be always Zero.

Sad that Stammer had to go through unfortunate injuries. Good thing is he survived them through enough well he managed still continue his illustrious career.

Stammer will likely end his career (as goal scorer) among very top of his era regardless of injuries, missed games, and changing play style, and I'll be very happy for him when a lamp lit 500th time for him. It feels unfair to compare anybody with OV as OV's unprecedented goal scoring spell someway misdirects our perception to consider lower milestones and career achievements more mundane than they actually are. For example, that 500 career regular season goals milestone, a player regardless of era is among absolute top, but it feels 'easy' when we put that against background of what OV is doing.; So damn "easy" that it was only January 2016 when he scored his 500th goal. OV is setting new standard, but because that standard is so high level, we shouldn't necessarily use it as base comparison when looking to other great goal scorers, not at least without asterisk added.*

Stammer is one of them.

*a guy scoring some 50% more goals than the next guy of his era isn't actually very good measuring stick, as his individual performance level impact dramatically even to average of Top 10, skewing the number

ADD: in other words, OV cannot be considered "normal" or "typical" top level goal scorer among his peers - the norm of this (OV-) era top goal scoring careers is at Stamkos-Crosby-Kovaltchuk tier, which is that some 33% lower level = entirely different tier

Edit: OV's 500th goal was actually scored January 2016, not October -> corrected. Doesn't change the point.

 

[JoVel]

basically irrelevant guy on Tampa?

That's a bit of a hyperbole don't you think?

 

[Montreal Shadow]

So was prime Jonathan Cheechoo... Unfortunately it takes a little more than doing it for one year.

Huh huh? He also won a rocket before. Dumb strawman.

 

[RageQuit77]

Stamkos career goal scoring consistency is very good. Seems that his long injury periods doesn't have had big impact to his overall consistency. In G/GP his rookie season is still worst (0.29 G/GP) and there is only one other season with less than 0.40 G/GP (0.35 for season 2017-18), while career G/GP is respectable 0.52 G/GP regardless of broken curriculum. Not bad, not bad at all. Wouldn't be myself too concerned about his future goal scoring potential. He is still under 30 years old. Few days.

There is still better part of decade for him to perform at high level, barring further injuries. 500 goals should be very doable, and 600 goals well within possibilities.

 

[Zuluss]

Stamkos gave OV quite a run for his money in 12/13 and to a smaller extent in 14/15 - OV won both times despite Stamkos being in peak goal-scoring years (22 and 24).
13/14 could have been another year when they would have had a huge race, but it did not happen.

It is not clear to me how much of decline in Stamkos' goal-scoring was a lingering effect of a broken leg and how much was just age - after all, goal-scorers tend to peak between 20 and 25, and Stamkos did just that, he has exactly the career arc one would expect.

I was waiting back then for the year when Stamkos would finally have his peak season, break through 100-point mark (which was much harder back then than now) and have a claim on #1 in the world. I actually wanted that to happen, but Stamkos left the impression of someone who cannot get the job done. He could not hold to his goal-scoring/point lead in 10/11 after Crosby went down, he let Ovechkin come from behind to get a Rocket in 12/13 and could not use Crosby's going down again that year to get Art Ross. Younger OV did grab his stick too tight when he wanted something and tried to do everything alone (I still remember how he tried to force a goal in Detroit to tie Fedorov as the most productive Russian goal-scorer - and could not do that despite firing 15 shots on the net). But Stamkos just seemed to lose his concentration when he had to fight for the crown.

So I do not think a healthier Stamkos would have stolen any goal-scoring titles from Ovechkin. He could have made one or two goal-scoring races more fun though.

 

[SpinningEdge]

One guy has 8 rockets - and on his way to his ninth.

the other guy has 2.

the guy with 8 rockets is still winning them basically every year in his 30’s - while the other guy is still in his 20’s.

Stamkos has had some good seasons - for sure... but he’s not on Ovi’s level. No one is.

 

[varano]

ovechkin is one of the most complete players to play the game.

 

[egelband]

Part of Ovi’s beauty is that he’s so durable. So it’s hard to take health out of the equation. But when they’re both ‘on’ it’s a fair race. But I still think Ovi is the better scorer. Not exactly a slight toward Stamkos though.

 

[Ajaton Azer]

What’s next?

Roid Kane vs Ovechkin?

what if Patrick Kane was on steroids, would he match Ovi?

***DURABILITY IS A RARE ATTRIBUTE OVECHKIN HAS***

why do people refuse to acknowledge that? You can’t say career what if’s to players with injuries, that’s just another thing that makes Ovechkin so damn special.

Hello sir

I think that you be durabel

In other case Stamkos is great

But so is the great 8

 

[Sam Spade]

Eight fifty goal seasons to two, eight Richard trophies to two (one of which is a tie).

Stamkos is 30, you know what Ovechkin was doing in his 30 year old season? Winning Rocket number six.

There is still time for Stamkos, win another Rocket or two, hit 50 goals, he can do it.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Stamkos from 09-10 season until now has a GPG of 0.55. Ovi has 0.585.

Ovi has been healthy. Stamkos has battled blood clot, broken leg and more. He also was a playmaker one season to Kucherov.

I'm big Ovi fan, but would Stamkos match him if he had healthy career like Ovi? Stamkos was seen as new best goalscorer in league when Ovi fell off in '10-11 and even scored 60. But a few seasons later after he suffered some brutal injuries. Ovi then coincidentally got back on his game.

Ovi battled Dale Hunter and a knee jerk Boudreau who suddenly thought an anomalous loss should undo his teams record breaking offensive seasons because reasons.

We don't know what would've happened with Stamkos and the injuries were a damn shame, but either way Ovechkin was and is the superior goal scorer.

 

[Mulletman]

Eight fifty goal seasons to two, eight Richard trophies to two (one of which is a tie).

Stamkos is 30, you know what Ovechkin was doing in his 30 year old season? Winning Rocket number six.

There is still time for Stamkos, win another Rocket or two, hit 50 goals, he can do it.

Yeah Stamkos wouldn't measure up to ovechkin as a goal scorer. But Stamkos Without his injuries is an interesting thing to consider. A healthy Stamkos would most likely make more people put Ovechkin over Crosby in all time rankings, beacause it's very realistic to think that Stamkos would've won Crosby's 2013-14 Art Ross, Hart and Lindsey plus possibly Ovechkin's 2013-14 Rocket. This is how the points race looked before Stamkos got injured in 2013: NHL.com Stats

2014-15 is another question. Many say that Stamkos was negatively affected by the leg injury but he did play all 82 games that season and he was still in the Art Ross race in early december that year: NHL.com Stats It was mostly Stamkos assists that fell off as he only got 13 assists the rest of the season. Maybe without the leg injury Stamkos wins Jamie Benn's Art Ross that season. Winning the Rocket that year would be harder since Ovechkin had 53.

In 2016-17 Stamkos was once again amonst the top guys when he got injured: NHL.com Stats Would Stamkos have been able to beat McDavid for the Art Ross? Maybe not... But beating a weak 44 goal Crosby for the Rocket would've been easier. So maybe another Rocket and 90+ point season for Stamkos.

So healthy Stamkos might have had something like 2 Art Ross trophies, 4 Rocket trophies, a Hart and a Lindsey. And Crosby might have lost a Art Ross, a Rocket, a Hart and a Linsey to Stamkos while Ovechkin most likely would've lost only one of his Rockets. Pretty hard to say Crosby is better than Ovechkin if Crosby only had 1 Art Ross, 1 Hart, 1 Rocket, 2 Lindsey's, 2 Conn Smythe's and 1 Messier...

 

[HockeySniper]

Was Stamkos one of the best goal scorers on his generation? Yes.

Was he THE BEST goal scorer of his era? No. That's Ovechkin. The Dragonborn.

They're not as far off as many people seem to express in this thread, but there's enough difference you can objectively make the above statement and most would agree.

Imagine it Stamkos had the Become Ethereal Shout??? No injury haha. To bad Ovi is like all shouts put into one. FUS RO DAH

 

[Sam Spade]

Pretty hard to say Crosby is better than Ovechkin if Crosby only had 1 Art Ross, 1 Hart, 1 Rocket, 2 Lindsey's, 2 Conn Smythe's and 1 Messier...

No you didn't.

This is not an actual "award":

Suggestions for nominees are solicited from fans, clubs and NHL personnel, but the selection of the three finalists and the ultimate winner is made by Messier, a member of the Hockey Hall of Fame and one of the finest leaders in NHL history.

Anyway MM, I deal in absolutes. What a player did is what he did, everything else is just "pace", speculation and what might have been.

 

[Mulletman]

No you didn't.

This is not an actual "award":



Anyway MM, I deal in absolutes. What a player did is what he did, everything else is just "pace", speculation and what might have been.

Try telling that to Crosby fans...

 

[bobholly39]

Try telling that to Crosby fans...

One of the greatest hockey debates of our time is asking who was the greatest of all time - Gretzky or Crosby.

When it comes right down to it - we can only speculate whether or not Gretzky was good enough to win a Messier. We know Crosby was good enough to win one. I suspect that'll be the big differentiator between their careers when future historians look back on it.

 

[JoVel]

Imagine it Stamkos had the Become Ethereal Shout??? No injury haha. To bad Ovi is like all shouts put into one. FUS RO DAH

I'd usually appreciate a Skyrim joke but that was baaaad.

 

[JoVel]

One of the greatest hockey debates of our time is asking who was the greatest of all time - Gretzky or Crosby.

Um, no it's not.

 

[Dondini]

Ovi is by far the greatest goal scorer of this generation and arguably all time. Since he joined the league 15 years ago, nobody has been consistently as dominant as him when it comes to scoring. He’s NEVER scored less than 30 goals in any season and he scored 40 or more goals in 10 out of his 15 years in the league.


Stamkos is great but health is part of it. I’m an islanders fan and it’s easy for me to say if Bossy played just 5 more healthy seasons and his career wasn’t cut short at 10 seasons he would be the undisputed greatest goal scorer of all time. But that’s not fair to say because health and longevity is important and it’s not far to Ovi to deal in hypotheticals.

even if bossy played 5 more years scoring At similar rates he’s not as good as ovechkin. He played in the absolutely highest 10 year span the nhl has ever seen in goals per game.

 

[txpd]

Stamkos career goal scoring consistency is very good. Seems that his long injury periods doesn't have had big impact to his overall consistency..

Except for those long periods of no goals and no assists and no ice time.

 

[txpd]

One of the greatest hockey debates of our time is asking who was the greatest of all time - Gretzky or Crosby.

When it comes right down to it - we can only speculate whether or not Gretzky was good enough to win a Messier. We know Crosby was good enough to win one. I suspect that'll be the big differentiator between their careers when future historians look back on it.