GDT: Hawks Vs Leafs - 6PM CT on NBCSCHI and NHLN-US -- Oh Captain, My Captain! (not the mod)

[Blue Liner]

It's not just a straight up trade for Nylander. You also have to equate the hit to the salary cap. Just trading draft assets and then using next year's salary cap to sign Nylander hurts our free agency prospects next year. We need to GIVE salary back to the Maple Leafs ... otherwise the opportunity cost is not worth it.

I'm not arguing any of that. I'm strictly speaking to the blanket statement of NO 1st Round picks being involved. I don't agree with that, that's all. I'm well aware of the complexities of these transactions, which really dovetails into my stance on whether the picks are in play or not.

 

[BK]

The big mistakes are the deadline deals that marginally increase chance of winning cup and do nothing for your org long term, like when Minny used a bunch of picks on Hanzal. Another mistake is misjudging window to win and end up giving away a top 5-10 pick like Ottawa just did or Toronto did in the Kessel deal.

Disagree. Ladd and Vermette were marginal gains but smart trades. You have to be right there to make these deals.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Boqvist. Not even close for me. But then again me and @BK are probably his biggest fans here.

Idk, I'm probably right there with you guys on Boqvist. He's special, IMO, and I still cant believe he was available at #8.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Idk, I'm probably right there with you guys on Boqvist. He's special, IMO, and I still cant believe he was available at #8.

Same here, never got into Wahlstrom, Tkachuk or Hughes, always wanted Boqvist if we could get him and also surprised he slipped to us.

 

[piteus]

I'm not arguing any of that. I'm strictly speaking to the blanket statement of NO 1st Round picks being involved. I don't agree with that, that's all. I'm well aware of the complexities of these transactions, which really dovetails into my stance on whether the picks are in play or not.

I agree. I just want to be sure the Hawks give back contracts if they trade a 1st round pick. Clearing the books is just as important for the future as 1st round picks.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Forsling and Murphy back are not going to make us a strong defensive team all of a sudden, they are not world beaters defensively.

Our back end has a lot of potential for offense but defensively it looks pretty bad. With our goaltending situation we need solid defense in our end and a solid PK. Both of those areas are borderline disaster. And to think we are going to be saved by an aging goalie coming off 10 month concussion issues is dreaming, the guy needs great play in front of him when he comes back.

The first order of business has to be special teams. To be 2-0-1 with the worst PP and PK in the NHL is the biggest miracle since Moses and the red sea. It will not last with these special teams, something has to be changed quickly.

Oh that’s right, we have the Q/Ulf/Kitch combo. Nothing to worry about, the three blind mice will sort it.

 

[Rick C137]

I find it amusing how we can score 2 goals in about a minute and a half of 6 on 5 but can barely enter the zone on a 5 on 4 powerplay. Had more goals on our 6 on 5 for less than 2 min than we had in shots on our 4 min PP.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Forsling and Murphy back are not going to make us a strong defensive team all of a sudden, they are not world beaters defensively.

Our back end has a lot of potential for offense but defensively it looks pretty bad. With our goaltending situation we need solid defense in our end and a solid PK. Both of those areas are borderline disaster. And to think we are going to be saved by an aging goalie coming off 10 month concussion issues is dreaming, the guy needs great play in front of him when he comes back.

The first order of business has to be special teams. To be 2-0-1 with the worst PP and PK in the NHL is the biggest miracle since Moses and the red sea. It will not last with these special teams, something has to be changed quickly.

Oh that’s right, we have the Q/Ulf/Kitch combo. Nothing to worry about, the three blind mice will sort it.

They're both solid defensively...they don't have to be world-beaters in order to make this D corps twice as good as it is now, if not more.

Forsling and Murphy back makes the D corps, at worst, league average. League average D, plus great goaltending, plus great offensive capability = a solid team, and a playoff team. And once you're in, who knows how it goes.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

I find it amusing how we can score 2 goals in about a minute and a half of 6 on 5 but can barely enter the zone on a 5 on 4 powerplay. Had more goals on our 6 on 5 for less than 2 min than we had in shots on our 4 min PP.

I've been saying this for years, which is why I really think the PP problems are a coaching issue. When the talent just gets out there and plays/improvises, they look great. When they are "coached" into a system for the PP, they look terrible.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

They're both solid defensively...they don't have to be world-beaters in order to make this D corps twice as good as it is now, if not more.

Forsling and Murphy back makes the D corps, at worst, league average. League average D, plus great goaltending, plus great offensive capability = a solid team, and a playoff team. And once you're in, who knows how it goes.

I like your optimism. I don’t agree with it, but I like it.

 

[BK]

They're both solid defensively...they don't have to be world-beaters in order to make this D corps twice as good as it is now, if not more.

Forsling and Murphy back makes the D corps, at worst, league average. League average D, plus great goaltending, plus great offensive capability = a solid team, and a playoff team. And once you're in, who knows how it goes.

This is accurate.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I like your optimism. I don’t agree with it, but I like it.

What do you not agree with?

Keith, Joker, Murphy, Forsling, Seabs, Gus/Manning/Rutta is not a league-average D?

While not loaded with multiple top pair guys like some of the elite defensive teams, that is easily league-average D.

You have a top pair guy, two between top and middle pair guys in Joker and Seabs, then Murphy and Forsling, who are probably low-end middle pairing or high-end third pairing guys(at worst) currently. Rutta/Gus/Manning are adquate bottom pair guys.

It brings so much more balance and skill to the D. Not quite sure how anyone can disagree.

And that's with two of Gus/Manning/Rutta not even in the lineup. You can do far worse than two of those three guys as your 6th/7th D.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

What do you not agree with?

Keith, Joker, Murphy, Forsling, Seabs, Gus/Manning/Rutta is not a league-average D?

No, I don't think those guys coming back will make a huge difference. Forsling could end up in Rockford at some point with Q calling the shots. Murphy is ok but I don't see him having a huge impact. And counting on an aging goalie with concussion issues is a huge question mark.

With the same coaches calling the shots regarding system, roster, and motivation I do not see this team being even average defensively this year.

 

[Rick C137]

I've been saying this for years, which is why I really think the PP problems are a coaching issue. When the talent just gets out there and plays/improvises, they look great. When they are "coached" into a system for the PP, they look terrible.

Yep. It’s mind numbingly obvious that it’s a coaching issue here. The entire hawks PP starting from the breakout is rather predictable. If the fans can pick it up, you can bet your ass that advanced scouting it going to pick it up.

And that’s not even getting into some of the silly personal decisons. No reason for Jokiharju not to be on the PP at this point.

 

[BK]

No, I don't think those guys coming back will make a huge difference. Forsling could end up in Rockford at some point with Q calling the shots. Murphy is ok but I don't see him having a huge impact. And counting on an aging goalie with concussion issues is a huge question mark.

With the same coaches calling the shots regarding system, roster, and motivation I do not see this team being even average defensively this year.

The gap between Murphy or Forsling and Manning is pretty damn big.

 

[ChiHawks10]

No, I don't think those guys coming back will make a huge difference. Forsling could end up in Rockford at some point with Q calling the shots. Murphy is ok but I don't see him having a huge impact. And counting on an aging goalie with concussion issues is a huge question mark.

With the same coaches calling the shots regarding system, roster, and motivation I do not see this team being even average defensively this year.

So Murphy and Forsling bumping out guys like Gus or Manning from the top 6 D doesn't make a big difference?

 

[LDF]

been really impress with the Bhawks so far, missed the first 3 games but i should get my crap sorted out....

go Hawks !!!!

how bout Toews performance !! sweet....

 

[ChiHawks10]

been really impress with the Bhawks so far, missed the first 3 games but i should get my crap sorted out....

go Hawks !!!!

how bout Toews performance !! sweet....

Look at this guy coming back from the dead.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

Guys. I don't have a voice today. Cam Ward needs to never play another game of hockey ever again. But holy hell does Toews look elit out there. It's even more noticeable in person.
Manning wasn't steaming garbage. Joker is just insane.

I'm not going to lie, I cried when I saw Corey on the red carpet. I want my goalie back so bad.

Also the hawks posted a picture of us on their FB yesterday. So that's cool. Yeah yeah. I went with a Toews jersey since Delia got sent down. I also won this jersey at a Hogs game last year so it's one with the ugly collar instead of the nice Reebok ones, but whatever.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

So Murphy and Forsling bumping out guys like Gus or Manning from the top 6 D doesn't make a big difference?

Manning is a Q guy, he is not going anywhere. And no, I don’t think Murphy and Forsling in the lineup is going to make a huge difference. Forsling’s play impressed Q so much he sent him to Rockford. Murphy was getting moaned at all season in here. He’s okay but not a savior for this defense.

Look, you believe what you want. I hope you are right but I am not putting any money on it.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Look at this guy coming back from the dead.

Funny, I always thought he might be a sock puppet. At the end of the day, what difference does it make, welcome back LDF.

 

[clydesdale line]

Look at this guy coming back from the dead.

Bullets, sunlight... nothing I do works on him.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Manning is a Q guy, he is not going anywhere. And no, I don’t think Murphy and Forsling in the lineup is going to make a huge difference. Forsling’s play impressed Q so much he sent him to Rockford. Murphy was getting moaned at all season in here. He’s okay but not a savior for this defense.

Look, you believe what you want. I hope you are right but I am not putting any money on it.

Forsling wasn't sent to Rockford because he disappointed Q.

He was sent to Rockford to get consistent time and to log more minutes on the top pairing down there. Something he wasn't getting in the NHL with the Hawks.

And if Manning continues to be hot garbage(he actually wasn't terrible last night) then Q won't have a choice but to sit him out for better options.

If you believe that Manning playing less minutes(even if in the lineup) isn't a good thing... IDK what to say.

 

[piteus]

Why are we so harsh in Gus? Yes ... his bonehead errors suck, but he could be pretty good if he's paired with a sensible / experienced DMen. Gus has the talent to be a late bloomer.

That said, Rutta is not good. I don't think it's rust from his injuries. The dude has bad hands.

As for Manning, I have no clue. He'll put in a good shift 25% of the times. The rest is always on the brink of disaster.

Murphy and Forsling in for Rutta and Manning will be a major upgrade. However, I'm not holding my breath for some sort of revelation from the two.

Let's look at it this way:

* An aging Keith is a top pairing DMen, but not Norris level.
* Joker has +++upside, but only 19. At best top 4, but likely #5 DMen right now.
* If we're lucky, Forsling can be a #4 DMen.
* Murphy had back surgery. Realistically, he's a good bottom pair DMen for now.
* Gus is a decent bottom pairing DMen this year.
* Seabrook is a bottom pairing DMen at this time.

AT BEST:
* That's 1 top DMen, two #4s, and three #5s.

AT WORST;
* That's 1 top DMen and five #5s.

Unless Crow does a Patrick Roy after vertigo, I don't think our chances are good this year. The back line has to be better to have a chance.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Why are we so harsh in Gus? Yes ... his bonehead errors suck, but he could be pretty good if he's paired with a sensible / experienced DMen. Gus has the talent to be a late bloomer.

That said, Rutta is not good. I don't think it's rust from his injuries. The dude has bad hands.

As for Manning, I have no clue. He'll put in a good shift 25% of the times. The rest is always on the brink of disaster.

Murphy and Forsling in for Rutta and Manning will be a major upgrade. However, I'm not holding my breath for some sort of revelation from the two.

Let's look at it this way:

* An aging Keith is a top pairing DMen, but not Norris level.
* Joker has great upside, but only 19. At best top 4, but more like #5 DMen right now.
* If we're lucky, Forsling can be a #4 DMen.
* Murphy is off back surgery. Realistically, he's a good bottom pairing DMen this year.
* Gus is a decent bottom pairing DMen this year.
* Seabrook is a bottom pairing DMen at this time.

AT BEST:
* That's 1 top DMen, two #4s, and three #5s.

AT WORST;
* That's 1 top DMen and five #5s.

Unless Crow does a Patrick Roy after vertigo, I don't think our chances are good this year. The back line has to be better to have a chance.

I'm not sure how you could actually watch the games this year and think this.

Keith is top pair. Joker and Seabs are between top pair and middle pair(based on their play so far). Call them both 3's for now. Forsling can probably be a solid #4, as can Murphy, though coming off an injury, he's probably more a solid #5. Gus is a good #5 or #6.