GDT: Hawks Vs Leafs - 6PM CT on NBCSCHI and NHLN-US -- Oh Captain, My Captain! (not the mod)

[ChiHawks10]

Here's the thing with Panarin. We already know he has chemistry with Kane. That known quantity makes Panarin more valuable to the Hawks.

I don't know how it would work defensively, but Panarin - Schmaltz - Kane would be game over for the NHL on the offensive end ... especially on the power play if we can ever find a point.

That's why I said we bring in Panarin because we know he will put up 75-100 points here.

 

[piteus]

Forget Nylander for a second, if we don’t get Panarin, then what do we do?

Right now we’re in post Cup Red Wing territory. Obviously, if Toews fizzles out and Crawford isn’t back to what he was, we can go back to tanking. If this is real though, we need a plan and need to execute.

I'm banking Toews figured it out FINALLY. He needs to play close to his contract for a legit rebuild for another Cup to work ... with Keith aging and Seabrook hanging on. While I love Crow, the Hawks can figure out the goalie situation.

 

[ColdSteel2]

I'm banking Toews figured it out FINALLY. He needs to play close to his contract for a legit rebuild for another Cup to work ... with Keith aging and Seabrook hanging on. While I love Crow, the Hawks can figure out the goalie situation.

Yeah, maybe Toews being this good means we can get away with a lesser UFA like Silfverberg. Still digesting it, need to see the year play out for him.

 

[x Tame Impala]

You can consider "buying" if the product is a young, long-term solution.

Well a rebuilding team can do that too. Going out and trading for a Nylander type, for example.

Being "buyers" to me has always meant trading for those Ladd/Gaborik/McDonaugh deadline moves or even the smaller scale Weiss+Fleischman (barf)/Oduya types. Basically just giving up valuable draft picks and prospects for short term success because the FO genuinely believes the team can win a Cup.

Doing that would be a huge, HUGE mistake this season. We've seen Cup contending Blackhawks teams probably 6 times since 2009. We know when the Hawks have "it" and when they don't.

The Blackhawks are going to be a very bad team this year. Any move that tries to artificially make them better at the expense of the future would be a complete waste of assets and would really get in the way of long term success

 

[ChiHawks10]

Well a rebuilding team can do that too. Going out and trading for a Nylander type, for example.

Being "buyers" to me has always meant trading for those Ladd/Gaborik/McDonaugh deadline moves or even the smaller scale Weiss+Fleischman (barf)/Oduya types. Basically just giving up valuable draft picks and prospects for short term success because the FO genuinely believes the team can win a Cup.

Doing that would be a huge, HUGE mistake this season. We've seen Cup contending Blackhawks teams probably 6 times since 2009. We know when the Hawks have "it" and when they don't.

The Blackhawks are going to be a very bad team this year. Any move that tries to artificially make them better at the expense of the future would be a complete waste of assets and would really get in the way of long term success

This is still not a guarantee. I think they'll surprise most people, and have been saying it for a few weeks now. Especially when Forsling, Murphy, and Crow are all back healthy. They have the offense to compete with any team in the league, easily, and to contend. They need the D and goaltending to step up and match that.

And like BL said, you can "buy" on younger players that may be part of the future.

 

[Blue Liner]

Well a rebuilding team can do that too. Going out and trading for a Nylander type, for example.

Being "buyers" to me has always meant trading for those Ladd/Gaborik/McDonaugh deadline moves or even the smaller scale Weiss+Fleischman (barf)/Oduya types. Basically just giving up valuable draft picks and prospects for short term success because the FO genuinely believes the team can win a Cup.

Doing that would be a huge, HUGE mistake this season. We've seen Cup contending Blackhawks teams probably 6 times since 2009. We know when the Hawks have "it" and when they don't.

The Blackhawks are going to be a very bad team this year. Any move that tries to artificially make them better at the expense of the future would be a complete waste of assets and would really get in the way of long term success

I think we generally agree, it's just different terminology/semantics. Anything done in the name of just this season or some short-term gain would be a mistake, absolutely.

I think they have a chance to be better than you think, but that still doesn't mean they should be in on any deadline, short-term (potentially) gain type transactions to try and be over the top for this season.

 

[Rick C137]

Crazy that he’s the only player in NHL history to ever do that

 

[Fortyfives]

Yikes

 

[piteus]

I think we generally agree, it's just different terminology/semantics. Anything done in the name of just this season or some short-term gain would be a mistake, absolutely.

No trading first round picks and Joker/Boqvist. That's non negotiable. The Hawks near term future is too uncertain ... you don't want to trade potential top 10 picks. However, if Toronto will take back Seabrook's contract and let's say Saad ... I'll give them that pick for Nylander. That's a no brainer for the Hawks. That's $13mn in cap space AND Nylander.

Trades like that make sense for the future. However, just giving away potential top 10 picks makes no sense unless the Hawks give back salary too.

That said, the Hawks season doesn't really start until Murphy, Forsling, and Crow get back. This team can score. It's really about the back end right now. Even then, our Target should be the 2019 and 2020 season.

 

[piteus]

Crazy that he’s the only player in NHL history to ever do that

When Kane wants to dominate, he dominates.

 

[AmericanDream]

well, there is a likely scenario that Panarin gets moved at the deadline, I would really like it to be us that he gets dealt too...

 

[piteus]

well, there is a likely scenario that Panarin gets moved at the deadline, I would really like it to be us that he gets dealt too...

Considering he won't be signing with the Blue Jackets and a UFA next year, Panarin's trade value would be rather cheap. I'll give Saad back for Panarin. Heck, they can have Anisimov and Saad for Panarin.

Ironically, it pretty much zeros out the Blue Jacket trades from 2015.

 

[x Tame Impala]

This is still not a guarantee. I think they'll surprise most people, and have been saying it for a few weeks now. Especially when Forsling, Murphy, and Crow are all back healthy. They have the offense to compete with any team in the league, easily, and to contend. They need the D and goaltending to step up and match that.

And like BL said, you can "buy" on younger players that may be part of the future.

Assuming if all you mentioned works out, and that's a big IF expecting Murphy, Forsling, and Crawford to come back healthy and be good again...what's the realistic best finish the Hawks can have this year?

 

[Rick C137]

Anisimov and Saad for Panarin would be hilarious.

 

[piteus]

Assuming if all you mentioned works out, and that's a big IF expecting Murphy, Forsling, and Crawford to come back healthy and be good again...what's the realistic best finish the Hawks can have this year?

Not the Cup, which is the only thing that matters in the Kane/Toews era.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I'm glad everyone is so good at predicting the future.

If Forsling, Murphy, and Crawford come back healthy, and play to the best of their ablities, I think this team can contend for the Cup.

If their D is average, their goaltending is excellent to elite, then I can see that happening. Their offense is elite, IMO, so long as it stays at the current level.

 

[Blue Liner]

No trading first round picks and Joker/Boqvist. That's non negotiable. The Hawks near term future is too uncertain ... you don't want to trade potential top 10 picks. However, if Toronto will take back Seabrook's contract and let's say Saad ... I'll give them that pick for Nylander. That's a no brainer for the Hawks. That's $13mn in cap space AND Nylander.

Trades like that make sense for the future. However, just giving away potential top 10 picks makes no sense unless the Hawks give back salary too.

That said, the Hawks season doesn't really start until Murphy, Forsling, and Crow get back. This team can score. It's really about the back end right now. Even then, our Target should be the 2019 and 2020 season.

I don't necessarily agree depending upon what player is coming back, and how badly you project your finish to be this season. If you get a player like Nylander in return, he's everything you hope that 1st round pick would be, but he's already here and already that instead of banking on the potential of that coming to fruition with your 1st round pick. Unless you think you're going to be Lottery Pick Bad, then maybe that's slightly different but I don't think this team is going to be THAT bad to finish with a decent chance at a top 3 pick.

Draft picks are important, but when your return is the caliber of player you'd hope for that pick to turn into, it's a different landscape. For me, I at least think about a transaction like that and don't deal in absolutes, but that's just me.

 

[piteus]

I'm glad everyone is so good at predicting the future.

If Forsling, Murphy, and Crawford come back healthy, and play to the best of their ablities, I think this team can contend for the Cup.

If their D is average, their goaltending is excellent to elite, then I can see that happening. Their offense is elite, IMO, so long as it stays at the current level.

If Crow plays to the best of his abilities, that's Vezina / Conn Smythe level. Can it happen? Sure. Will it happen after 1 year off with "vertigo?" Only in my dreams.

 

[piteus]

I don't necessarily agree depending upon what player is coming back, and how badly you project your finish to be this season. If you get a player like Nylander in return, he's everything you hope that 1st round pick would be, but he's already here and already that instead of banking on the potential of that coming to fruition with your 1st round pick. Unless you think you're going to be Lottery Pick Bad, then maybe that's slightly different but I don't think this team is going to be THAT bad to finish with a decent chance at a top 3 pick.

Draft picks are important, but when your return is the caliber of player you'd hope for that pick to turn into, it's a different landscape. For me, I at least think about a transaction like that and don't deal in absolutes, but that's just me.

It's not just a straight up trade for Nylander. You also have to equate the hit to the salary cap. Just trading draft assets and then using next year's salary cap to sign Nylander hurts our free agency prospects next year. We need to GIVE salary back to the Maple Leafs ... otherwise the opportunity cost is not worth it.

 

[x Tame Impala]

3 games against teams with questionable D and/or goaltending and a backup goalie aren't enough to convince me to change my offseason predictions. I'm not saying these games didn't count, just that they're not a precise barometer yet.

Forsling and Murphy missed a big chunk of training camp, right? Crawford hasn't played in 10 months. It's not a guarantee that they come back as game changers. Again, a lot of "ifs" have to happen for the Hawks to be a Cup contending team. And even if all of them happen, you still have Q who is not scheming this team to be a Cup winner.

It's not predicting the future. It's watching this team the last 3 years and not seeing anything to think they're on the path to winning a Championship

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Trading a 1st is fine if the player you’re getting back has term and fills a big need. Ideally the pick goes for a player that has already developed but the other team is going to lose them at some point and they’re rebuilding. Like Mark Stone if he would do a sign and trade ala Kyle Turris

 

[BK]

Trading a 1st would be a big mistake in most situations.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Assuming if all you mentioned works out, and that's a big IF expecting Murphy, Forsling, and Crawford to come back healthy and be good again...what's the realistic best finish the Hawks can have this year?

Realistically, Vegas had no shot of making the playoffs last year, much less going to the finals and the Caps needed to blow it up because their window was closed. It's hockey, stuff happens. It would be short sited to go all in on a move that's only about this year as we stand today, but things can change. I wouldn't write off this team yet. And the Hawks don't have to make a decision on this stuff, so let it play out.

 

[BobbyJet]

#2 can still be a top pairing DMen for a year or two ... then be a second pairing in 2020 and 2021. He's obviously not Norris Trophy Finalist quality anymore.

That's why it's imperative that Joker, Boqvist, Forsling, Mitchell, or Beaudin become legit top 4 ... and 2 of them become a feared top pairing.

Let's hope Seabrook can hold on to be a top 6 for another 2-3 years.

But if the new guys come in and play the same "active stick" system that defines Q, it will mean the Hawks will still be weak in their own end. Admittedly 6 -5 games are entertaining when Hawks are the victor.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Trading a 1st would be a big mistake in most situations.

The big mistakes are the deadline deals that marginally increase chance of winning cup and do nothing for your org long term, like when Minny used a bunch of picks on Hanzal. Another mistake is misjudging window to win and end up giving away a top 5-10 pick like Ottawa just did or Toronto did in the Kessel deal.