GDT: Hawks vs Flyers: 1PM CT on NBCSCH, NHLN, SN360 - Saader-man: Far From Home edition

[KWP]

This has been our downfall last couple of seasons, and some want to rid Gus, and if he's goes we have no one to fill that.

Agreed. Everything's a trade-off. Love the puck on 56's stick coming out and set up in the o-zone. Our side of the blue line tho and it's ... Danger Will Robinson!

My opinion, same w/ Cat -Generational - #88 on his sweater, #1 in my heart.
Yeah, they're gonna score and those lamp lighter's mostly if not all-y highlight reel worthy, but net-net the club's going to be underwater GF/GA ...

--------
Addendum - Maybe not w/ a solid D-corp to back stop them but our blue line not exactly that ...

 

[Robsker]

Keith had a bad game. He was in the top 31 last season in +/- for defensemen (on a terrible defensive team) an was 38th overall in points. There is no evidence right now that he's declining rapidly. If he keeps up this play for a month or two, that's a different story.

We're currently missing our 2nd pairing (De Haan and Murphy), so what was our 3rd pairing today won't be what it is throughout the season (injuries not withstanding). I actually liked our bottom 6, decent checking line, and the Saad-Kampf-Kubalik line were doing some good things. I actually have more issues with our top two lines, but those guys still ended up producing points, so they'll automatically be given a pass despite constantly being stuck defending.

Crow had a rough night. Hoping it's not a sign of where he is health wise. He looked like a goalie playing in his last season, which given his head injuries, could wind up being the case.

the evidence by eye test is clearly that he is declining. How rapidly - well.. rapid is a fluid term- what exactly does rapid mean? Anyway, it is doubtless that Keith is now no longer a top 31 D-man - meaning he is no longer a legit D1. Yes, by default he is the Hawks D1 - but he really is no longer a D1 caliber guy - or, at best, a well, well below average D1. He would be a fine D2 - the second guy on a first pairing supporting the top D man. But the Hawks have no such top D-man; no legit top 15-20ish D-man is on the team. And...

We have no idea yet the rate of decline from here. It may level off. it may plummet and drop off a cliff --- likely it will be somewhere in between. Father time never loses. Duncs best days are long behind him. It is now just a matter of how steep a decline. None of this is harping on Duncs --- he has been great and has hung around really well given the years and the minutes and the tough minutes he has played. Actually, Duncs is remarkably durable and his drop off has been less severe with time than expected. But...

Father time never loses. Not even a Hawks hero like Duncs can beat age. So, the Philly guy is not wrong - he may be overstating things a bit, but generally is correct.

 

[KWP]

the evidence by eye test is clearly that he is declining. How rapidly - well.. rapid is a fluid term- ...

So is, "projectile vomiting" and yesterday watching Duncs ... Well, let's just say my video screen needed multiple wipe downs.

 

[CallMeShaft]

the evidence by eye test is clearly that he is declining. How rapidly - well.. rapid is a fluid term- what exactly does rapid mean? Anyway, it is doubtless that Keith is now no longer a top 31 D-man - meaning he is no longer a legit D1. Yes, by default he is the Hawks D1 - but he really is no longer a D1 caliber guy - or, at best, a well, well below average D1. He would be a fine D2 - the second guy on a first pairing supporting the top D man. But the Hawks have no such top D-man; no legit top 15-20ish D-man is on the team. And...

We have no idea yet the rate of decline from here. It may level off. it may plummet and drop off a cliff --- likely it will be somewhere in between. Father time never loses. Duncs best days are long behind him. It is now just a matter of how steep a decline. None of this is harping on Duncs --- he has been great and has hung around really well given the years and the minutes and the tough minutes he has played. Actually, Duncs is remarkably durable and his drop off has been less severe with time than expected. But...

Father time never loses. Not even a Hawks hero like Duncs can beat age. So, the Philly guy is not wrong - he may be overstating things a bit, but generally is correct.

He overstated. I'm not saying Keith is still a #1, hell, he might not be a #2 anymore, but "rapidly declining" usually is taken to mean that a player has more or less fallen off a cliff. That Keith is nothing more than a bottom pairing guy right now. There isn't enough evidence to suggest this has happened.

If he plays like this for the next two months, then we can start labeling him as a guy who rapidly declined.

 

[BobbyJet]

So is, "projectile vomiting" and yesterday watching Duncs ... Well, let's just say my video screen needed multiple wipe downs.

It was very un-Keith like to panic when he fumbled the puck at the blue line and left a huge gap for Kopecny to motor.
Perhaps Keith was intimidated by Kopecny's speed but he would normally challenge him in the neutral zone before he got going .... but I don't think Keith was overly concerned when the kid took the puck to the outside on his backhand side; but it was an excellent backhander and CC's glove hand wasn't up to the task for most of the game. That goal hurt.
.

 

[KWP]

It was very un-Keith like to panic when he fumbled the puck at the blue line and left a huge gap for Kopecny to motor.
Perhaps Keith was intimidated by Kopecny's speed but he would normally challenge him in the neutral zone before he got going .... but I don't think Keith was overly concerned when the kid took the puck to the outside on his backhand side; but it was an excellent backhander and CC's glove hand wasn't up to the task for most of the game. That goal hurt.
.

Was some sick speed & backhander for sure. Even w/ 88's 3pts, Kopecny head & shoulders the best player on the ice yesterday. Props given - grudgingly. ;-)

Thing is w/ Keith these days - just like Seabrook - I'm now in, "expect bad things" mode with him (them) every time on the ice - especially together, (please PuckGods, make PP2 stop.)

This is a major drag - no exaggeration - pretty sure I speak for all when say, I LOVED watching those guys play hockey - in their prime. Those days are gone ... just saying.
Those NMCs tho ... here for 3-4 more seasons. Again just saying ...

 

[RememberTheRoar]

James Neveau said Keith was “appallingly slow and bad” yesterday. Zawaski only disagreed with him on the point that Keith may have reached seabrook level.

Zawaski also said there is no defender on the roster, healthy or not, that is enough of a lockdown defender to justify keeping Boqvist off the roster. Zawaski said “time to get him here”

 

[Panzerspitze]

It was very un-Keith like to panic when he fumbled the puck at the blue line [snip]

What? Fmubling the puck (and panicking) near the offensive blueline is as Keith as Keith gets, even on the PP, in the last few years.

 

[BobbyJet]

James Neveau said Keith was “appallingly slow and bad” yesterday. Zawaski only disagreed with him on the point that Keith may have reached seabrook level.

Zawaski also said there is no defender on the roster, healthy or not, that is enough of a lockdown defender to justify keeping Boqvist off the roster. Zawaski said “time to get him here”

Well, he's wrong. There are already too many defensive short comings back there and throughout the line-up to add another liability.

 

[BobbyJet]

What? Fmubling the puck (and panicking) near the offensive blueline is as Keith as Keith gets, even on the PP, in the last few years.

Fumbling the puck yes, but as I said he generally challenges the ops player in the neutral zone by not leaving that big of a gap.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Well, he's wrong. There are already too many defensive short comings back there and throughout the line-up to add another liability.

Ya, he’s essentially saying all these defenders are liabilities, or at least not impact defenders. So he’s saying if you’re going to have a defensive liability anyway that it’s better to have one with speed and offensive ability.

 

[BobbyJet]

Ya, he’s essentially saying all these defenders are liabilities, or at least not impact defenders. So he’s saying if you’re going to have a defensive liability anyway that it’s better to have one with speed and offensive ability.

Let's also remember that Hawks were missing DH and Murph to begin the season. It sounds like panic after one game to me.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Let's also remember that Hawks were missing DH and Murph to begin the season.

Based on what you saw yesterday, would you guess that may be the Hawks best pair, and the one they should lean on most 5v5?

Also, looks like Colliton wants to use Maatta-Seabrook mostly for defensive zone starts

 

[BK]

James Neveau said Keith was “appallingly slow and bad” yesterday. Zawaski only disagreed with him on the point that Keith may have reached seabrook level.

Zawaski also said there is no defender on the roster, healthy or not, that is enough of a lockdown defender to justify keeping Boqvist off the roster. Zawaski said “time to get him here”

James Neveau is one of the least knowledgeable Hawks podcasters around and knows very little about the game in general. This is just another one of his shitty hot takes.

Keith had tough game. It happens.

 

[BK]

Based on what you saw yesterday, would you guess that may be the Hawks best pair, and the one they should lean on most 5v5?

Also, looks like Colliton wants to use Maatta-Seabrook mostly for defensive zone starts

They will be our best defensive pair for sure. I am not a size person but they are doth big bodied defenders that can move well enough to play hard minutes and defend really well in the dirty areas.

 

[Putt Pirate]

Boqvist needs to learn D a bit better. He would not improve our D on the D side. On the O side absolutely.

 

[Blackhawks]

This team is just slow, I just went and watched bits and pieces of other games since I have NHL live and it’s just night and day how much faster other teams are than the Hawks, this is rarely discussed here, speed is not foot speed only, it’s how you think the game, it’s about hustling to get to the puck, it’s about anticipation of where the puck or a teammate will be, how fast you release a pass or a shot, their game is just very slow overall, it’s embarrassing, their foot speed is nothing to be proud about either.

 

[Chuck Testa]

What? Fmubling the puck (and panicking) near the offensive blueline is as Keith as Keith gets, even on the PP, in the last few years.

Keith has no business playing on either PP unit. None whatsoever.

 

[Chuck Testa]

We have to remember.. the Hawks had to ice Koekoek and Gilbert last night due to injuries.

It’s one game. Not all is lost.

Once again, I reiterate. Duncan Keith hasn’t belonged on a power play unit for a few years now. He’s an offensive black hole out there and if it wasn’t for getting secondary assists on nice plays made by Kane, he wouldn’t have half of the points he accumulates.

Just my opinion.

 

[Muffinalt]

I wonder if keeping Keith and Gus together is the best option. I know Gus gets most of the offensive starts but if Keith continues to play like this he isn't strong enough defensively anymore to cover for Gus imo.

We're going with a balanced dcore anyway instead of 1D, 2D pairings so why not give both Keith and Gus strong defensive partners? Give Gus most o zone starts, it's not like we lose too much offense if Keith isn't next to him anymore.

Keith - Murphy
De Haan - Gus
Maatta - Seabrook

That looks like it will give us solid pairs at all times. But of course let's see de Haan and Murphy come back first, maybe they can be a legit shutdown pair to give us that option.

 

[BrianE]

Keith has no business playing on either PP unit. None whatsoever.

Do agree but JC and coaching think otherwise, same was with Q. It's not politically correct to staple him and Seabs to the bench as they are to important to the club.

There is a popularity contest in the locker room you know.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

They will be our best defensive pair for sure. I am not a size person but they are doth big bodied defenders that can move well enough to play hard minutes and defend really well in the dirty areas.

if that’s the case, would it make sense to give that pair first line ice time at 5v5?

de Haan-Murphy
Keith-Gus
Maatta-Seabrook (heavy defensive zone start, basically like a fourth line)

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Eh,

It's pretty clear JC is trying to implement a tweak friendly style that maximizes the options on the ice. That sort of thing requires some serious chemistry which can only be honed through game play and repetition.

Every player beyond a couple guys looked 1/2 second behind in his decision making against Philly. The problem is, in the meantime, they have to find ways to win games while they learn how to play their game. Thus, you need be better on the boards and need to be tougher in your own zone when the ice is leaning the wrong way.

It's hard to really judge the team speed and transition when the team hasn't adapted yet.

Hopefully we're back here in December wondering how "it all turned around."

 

[BobbyJet]

if that’s the case, would it make sense to give that pair first line ice time at 5v5?

de Haan-Murphy
Keith-Gus
Maatta-Seabrook (heavy defensive zone start, basically like a fourth line)

One thing certain in my mind: if Gus keeps making dumb mistakes like we saw in game 1 he can't be playing 25+ minutes a night.

 

[BobbyJet]

Eh,

It's pretty clear JC is trying to implement a tweak friendly style that maximizes the options on the ice. That sort of thing requires some serious chemistry which can only be honed through game play and repetition.

Every player beyond a couple guys looked 1/2 second behind in his decision making against Philly. The problem is, in the meantime, they have to find ways to win games while they learn how to play their game. Thus, you need be better on the boards and need to be tougher in your own zone when the ice is leaning the wrong way.

It's hard to really judge the team speed and transition when the team hasn't adapted yet.

Hopefully we're back here in December wondering how "it all turned around."

However, waiting until December means another season out of the playoffs. I'm sure JC, Stan etc. are thinking it needs to happen a helluva lot quicker than that.