Confirmed with Link: Haula, Wallmark, Priskie & Luostarinen for Trocheck; 2021 5th round pick to VGK

[BB88]

Well, first: I don't like last minute shuffling unless they are absolutely necessary. For defence, I understood the last minute deals but for this. 20 games left, it takes many games to even build some chemistry. With Haula and Wallmark, well maybe they were not the key pieces of the team, but I didn't and don't see Trocheck as much better than Haula as most seems to think. He has maybe better potential, but just like Haula, he has injury problems and it's not any more certain that he would return to his shape (of one great season). Especially so quickly. I simply don't see him as a big upgrade. Hopefully I am wrong.

And then letting still second center to go. Wallmark has been very good 4th line center. As only thing, I could see this was investment to long period, but in that way also, I don't see it that certain. We can only guess if Wallmark is asking too much or if Haula was not willing to sign (where was this actually based on?).

I think, rather Williams coming into the team started this shuffling and messed up the overall game. I think rather should have gone back to time-before him. FOr sure good guy in locker room, but I think, it's simply his time to retire. All this shuffling ruined our game, that's how I see it. Maybe my memory fools me but I have a memory that game was in pretty good level just before.

Haula was walking, and Staal has no business being in a top6 offensive role.

Aho/Trocheck/Staal is clearly tougher to match up than a year ago and you used a walking UFA as a valuable asset.

Even on his down year he was on 53 point pace in Florida, Haulas career high is 56, and Tro is 2 years younger.

Asset management for future

 

[urho]

Love him, he’s been dangerous. I find the criticisms most Panthers throw at him comical.

I think he's been a bit lost tbh. What does please is that he seems to be quicker now than early in the season so he's likely to regain his form at some point. Hopefully soon enough!

 

[NotOpie]

someone in the organization doesn't believe goaltender to be a skill position, but a reflection upon the quality of the play in front of them. that has to change if we want to make deep runs. it's hard to deny that when you start looking at yearly candidates to win it all and those that actually do.

While this is probably "shades of gray", my sense is in a 1a/1b duo, the 1a needs to be slightly better than average and the 1b needs to be at least average. I think we've got the 1b part down.

 

[WreckingCrew]

While this is probably "shades of gray", my sense is in a 1a/1b duo, the 1a needs to be slightly better than average and the 1b needs to be at least average. I think we've got the 1b part down.

We have a 1b/1c duo

 

[NotOpie]

We have a 1b/1c duo

I'm an optimist....I look at it as more of a 1b/1x duo....sort of a Forest Gump thing, cause you never know what you're gonna get.

 

[Lempo]

We have a 1b/1c duo

Sum, ergo video.

 

[MinJaBen]

We have a 1b/1c duo

We have a Shakespeare duo: a 2b and a not 2b goalie.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Until further notice we are running an AHL 1A 1B situation

 

[zman77]

Vincent Trocheck:
There’s a lot of value in his contract, which extends through two more seasons beyond 2019-20 at an outrageously team-friendly $4.75 million AAV. He’s also a right-shot center with elite face off numbers. Brind’Amour loves his face off guys, and Trocheck is about as good as it can get, especially factoring in his handedness and Carolina’s desperate need for that versatility in the dot.
He has won 58.6% of his draws through three games with the club. He’s also been very good on the penalty kill.
The Hurricanes do need the production, though. He’s without a point through three games, despite a handful of great chances against Dallas and a shorthanded breakaway chance against Montreal. Neither resulted in a goal.
He was very public about his love for the Florida Panthers organization. That, combined with an injury that hampered him earlier in the season and all of the things that come with being traded mid-season from the only NHL team you’ve ever known, can be daunting and you can live with some easing in.
It’s been three games now, though. This four-day break will give him an opportunity to settle down and get comfortable with his new team and his new line mates, Svechnikov and Martin Necas,who had an excellent third period against the Habs upon the line’s formation.
It’s go time for Trocheck.
Quick Whistles: Looking Back at the Trade Deadline, Brady Skjei’s Surprising Early Success

 

[emptyNedder]

Swap out Haula for Roy and a late pick and it's still a no-brainer deal. Don't fall in love with B-prospects.

Coach and Patches showering Roy with praise and saying that there is massive upside for him. Excited to see what he can bring on a top line

I'm more confident in Roy to make a long term leap in play than I am in Tuch.

If coaches and teammates fall in love, why shouldn't we. I watched a bit of the second period last night—Roy was on a line with W. Karlsson and Pacioretty. The criticism within the Canes organization of Roy was that he was not a great skater—he kept up with Karlsson last night just fine as he had a nice assist and made another terrific pass that Pacioretty almost buried.
The Canes could have used the goal and assist Roy has since the trade deadline.

I know that Roy is not now and is likely never to be 60% as productive as Trocheck. But this organization (and many fans) are too easy to dismiss the value of developing players who aren't near-elite talent when drafted.

I hope I am wrong and the Canes call up Lorentz if a forward replacement is needed. Because some 7th rounders if given a chance turn out to be B+ prospects (Haula, Dzingel).

 

[HanSolo]

If coaches and teammates fall in love, why shouldn't we. I watched a bit of the second period last night—Roy was on a line with W. Karlsson and Pacioretty. The criticism within the Canes organization of Roy was that he was not a great skater—he kept up with Karlsson last night just fine as he had a nice assist and made another terrific pass that Pacioretty almost buried.
The Canes could have used the goal and assist Roy has since the trade deadline.

I know that Roy is not now and is likely never to be 60% as productive as Trocheck. But this organization (and many fans) are too easy to dismiss the value of developing players who aren't near-elite talent when drafted.

I hope I am wrong and the Canes call up Lorentz if a forward replacement is needed. Because some 7th rounders if given a chance turn out to be B+ prospects (Haula, Dzingel).

FWIW, since I was cited, I believe Roy has reached a level of general second line level play on and off the puck. He has more learning to do in regards to his shift to shift execution with the puck but more in terms of playmaking timing and shot selection. Tuch was supposed to be a solid bet 60-65 point guy but now I doubt he can get there. I think for Roy if all goes well he's more likely to be a 45-55 point 2cd line guy but I think he's more likely than Tuch to get there.

 

[Vegan Knight]

FWIW, since I was cited, I believe Roy has reached a level of general second line level play on and off the puck. He has more learning to do in regards to his shift to shift execution with the puck but more in terms of playmaking timing and shot selection. Tuch was supposed to be a solid bet 60-65 point guy but now I doubt he can get there. I think for Roy if all goes well he's more likely to be a 45-55 point 2cd line guy but I think he's more likely than Tuch to get there.

I think that's somewhat hard on Tuch, who has been injured most of the season. He already has a 52 point season. I think if Tuch is healthy next season and given a 2nd line spot then I think he could be expected to beat that. Injuries would be the only thing I would think would hinder Tuch beating that total.

But I think it's still about equal that he could pace with what he's done or what we expect of Roy.

 

[HanSolo]

I think that's somewhat hard on Tuch, who has been injured most of the season. He already has a 52 point season. I think if Tuch is healthy next season and given a 2nd line spot then I think he could be expected to beat that. Injuries would be the only thing I would think would hinder Tuch beating that total.

But I think it's still about equal that he could pace with what he's done or what we expect of Roy.

I don't think it has anything to do with injuries. He doesn't play the game intelligently anymore. He tries to bull his way through traffic on his own and doesn't synergize with his linemates at all. He doesn't try to rely on his teammates. For the most part he ignores them and often when he tries to lone wolf like that, he loses the puck.

But this isn't our board. The point is we're happy with Roy. And if he was just a "B prospect" then he must be the cream of the b-tier crop.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Everyone gets so wrapped up in absolute value of players, and who won or lost this trade or that trade.

All player value is relative to some degree. Roy may just be a better fit for Vegas, and in the meantime, we've continued to make moves that trend neutral to positive. We can't afford to keep every good prospect we ever draft, especially if we continue to get better at drafting them.

Good luck to Roy in Vegas.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

If coaches and teammates fall in love, why shouldn't we. I watched a bit of the second period last night—Roy was on a line with W. Karlsson and Pacioretty. The criticism within the Canes organization of Roy was that he was not a great skater—he kept up with Karlsson last night just fine as he had a nice assist and made another terrific pass that Pacioretty almost buried.
The Canes could have used the goal and assist Roy has since the trade deadline.

I know that Roy is not now and is likely never to be 60% as productive as Trocheck. But this organization (and many fans) are too easy to dismiss the value of developing players who aren't near-elite talent when drafted.

I hope I am wrong and the Canes call up Lorentz if a forward replacement is needed. Because some 7th rounders if given a chance turn out to be B+ prospects (Haula, Dzingel).

The team has to give something to get something that improves the NHL roster. Waiting for 1 of the 5 guys, or whatever the odds may be, of that ilk to develop into what is needed doesn't always fit the timeline of a team trying to compete now.

If they can acquire a needed piece without having to give up a core player or a core prospect, that's a deal they should make again. It's the Trocheck trade in a nutshell. If the other team's scouts hit and one of those depth prospects turn into a good player, it's the cost of doing business.

Even with that series of moves, the team still has serious depth at the center position with Aho, Staal and Trocheck under contract for multiple seasons, Necas a long-term pivot and Suzuki, Geekie and Drury in the pipeline.

 

[bleedgreen]

The team has to give something to get something that improves the NHL roster. Waiting for 1 of the 5 guys, or whatever the odds may be, of that ilk to develop into what is needed doesn't always fit the timeline of a team trying to compete now.

If they can acquire a needed piece without having to give up a core player or a core prospect, that's a deal they should make again. It's the Trocheck trade in a nutshell. If the other team's scouts hit and one of those depth prospects turn into a good player, it's the cost of doing business.

Even with that series of moves, the team still has serious depth at the center position with Aho, Staal and Trocheck under contract for multiple seasons, Necas a long-term pivot and Suzuki, Geekie and Drury in the pipeline.

I don’t disagree, and there’s always the valid point of once you’re in the playoffs anything can happen. Still, we’re a bubble team struggling to even get in and it’s pretty arguable that on paper we’re a contender. I associate some of the moves we made with a team like TB. They’re throwing their chips in now because now is the time. We threw some decent chips in, and we’re 50/50 to even make the dance.

The counter argument is that Skjei and Trocheck are longer term pieces and these trades were more summer deals that happened to occur at the deadline. Giving up Kooks and a pick for a rental with this team to me is questionable. Also long term we’ll be wondering if Skjei is worth the price paid, even if based on age and contract on paper he is.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

There's value in making the playoffs. They'll need the revenue to keep payroll at this level. Playoff home games and maintaining momentum is important.

I think they struck the right balance between being aggressive, but not really jeopardizing the future. As you said, Trocheck and Skjei were trades meant to help for several years. Vatanen went for a 2nd-round type (?) prospect and a mid-round draft pick. With the depth in prospects and draft picks, that's reasonable.

 

[Lempo]

Giving up Kooks and a pick for a rental with this team to me is questionable.

We may have talked with Vatanen about possible longer-term arrangements. We may or may not have made our minds up with Kuokkanen. But apparently NJD explicitly wanted Kuokkanen, so can you really stand in the way of their love? You can "lose" a trade every now and then for some future considerations capital. Maybe our propel heads have identified another guy in the Devils they plan on targetting some day.

 

[GoldiFox]

There's value in making the playoffs. They'll need the revenue to keep payroll at this level. Playoff home games and maintaining momentum is important.

I think they struck the right balance between being aggressive, but not really jeopardizing the future. As you alluded to, Trocheck and Skjei were trades meant to help for several years. Vatanen went for a 2nd-round type (?) prospect and a mid-round draft pick. With the depth in prospects and draft picks, that's reasonable.

Not for nothing Skjei ($5.25 million) and Trocheck ($4.75 million) have a combined $10 million Cap hit next year but their actual combined salary next year is just $7.7 million. Whereas the year after (2021-22) the two combine for an $11.7 million salary. It wouldn't shock me to see either used as more mid-term rentals who still have trade value on the other side of next season.

 

[Lempo]

Not for nothing Skjei ($5.25 million) and Trocheck ($4.75 million) have a combined $10 million Cap hit next year but their actual combined salary next year is just $7.7 million. Whereas the year after (2021-22) the two combine for an $11.7 million combined salary. It wouldn't shock me to see either used as more mid-term rentals who still have trade value on the other side of next season.

Ha, the precaution for 2020-21 potentially being a lockout year. Funny that they didn't do it for 2022-23 for Skjei.

 

[emptyNedder]

There's value in making the playoffs.

Ah, there's the rub. Adjustment time often means teams play worse for 10-15 games. The Canes did not have a cushion. Teams like TB and Pitts did, both are teams who have lost games after adding "big" pieces.

 

[geisterpanthers]

Panthers fan here, how has Trocheck been for you guys so far, 4 games into his Canes career?

 

[AD Skinner]

Big goal today

 

[bleedgreen]

Panthers fan here, how has Trocheck been for you guys so far, 4 games into his Canes career?

He had been everything we needed other than offense. The Canes only had two righty’s and none at center. Now we have a guy who wins right side draws, he’s been good defensively, and he plays a physical game. Especially in comparison to those he replaced. He clearly has a stronger presence around the puck in the middle than either guy he replaced. He hasn’t been clicking with anyone yet, but that’s a new team and a small sample.

Now he’s scored a game winner so...

He’s exactly what we needed if he can be a 50 point guy or above. Always hated playing against him before the injury.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Yeah, he hasn't had any chemistry yet offensively, but neither did the guys he replaced recently.

Hopefully today was a confidence builder for him, but I still feel pretty good about his long term prospects