Player Discussion: Hattrik Laine

[voyageur]

Hey just reading up in here... a lot of discussion over Laine and what he’s worth.

What are our thoughts on Laine being moved this offseason? Usually where there’s smoke there’s fire and he’s ranked pretty high on the TSN trade bait board.

I can’t see why Chevy would pull off a trade involving Laine, unless he’s asked for a trade and stated he won’t sign long term here. I’m in Laine’s corner here, he’s playing behind an aging dinosaur in Blake Wheeler who really in all reality is not as talented as Laine.

With his skill level he should be playing more minutes, with Scheifele, and ultimately we would see more wins as a result. He’s being held back in my opinion and the way the Jets handle young talent is really given me a nasty view of them.

So Kyle Connor who is one year older than Laine was handled wrong? He worked his way up to the top line. It's proven that Wheeler fits better than Laine, when it is Connor-Scheifele, last year was the evidence.

If Laine-Ehlers is a 2nd line is that so bad? For christ sakes there are alot of talented players on 2nd lines. Take Draisaitl, or Matthew Tkachuk, Patrik Kane, etc. I could go on. Laine is being developed properly to be a well rounded player, it will pay dividends in his career. He's been given a lot of leeway because of his talent.

 

[HPsauce]

So Kyle Connor who is one year older than Laine was handled wrong? He worked his way up to the top line. It's proven that Wheeler fits better than Laine, when it is Connor-Scheifele, last year was the evidence.

If Laine-Ehlers is a 2nd line is that so bad? For christ sakes there are alot of talented players on 2nd lines. Take Draisaitl, or Matthew Tkachuk, Patrik Kane, etc. I could go on. Laine is being developed properly to be a well rounded player, it will pay dividends in his career. He's been given a lot of leeway because of his talent.

ok. It’s understandable that Tkachuk plays behind a player like Johnny Hockey. LD begins McDavid... Laine behind Wheeler tho? Something is wrong here. Laine can outperform Wheeler now and it’s a coaching issue.

 

[voyageur]

ok. It’s understandable that Tkachuk plays behind a player like Johnny Hockey. LD begins McDavid... Laine behind Wheeler tho? Something is wrong here. Laine can outperform Wheeler now and it’s a coaching issue.

He barely outperformed Wheeler this year, and that was with Scheifele. Laine definitely didn't put up back to back 90 points seasons prior. I'm sorry but Wheeler is no slouch, and seems to complement 2 finishers better than Laine. If Patty plays his way up there fine, but it shouldn't be a big deal if he is playing with our best play driver, as everyone says, the points should still come.

 

[Whileee]

Hey just reading up in here... a lot of discussion over Laine and what he’s worth.

What are our thoughts on Laine being moved this offseason? Usually where there’s smoke there’s fire and he’s ranked pretty high on the TSN trade bait board.

I can’t see why Chevy would pull off a trade involving Laine, unless he’s asked for a trade and stated he won’t sign long term here. I’m in Laine’s corner here, he’s playing behind an aging dinosaur in Blake Wheeler who really in all reality is not as talented as Laine.

With his skill level he should be playing more minutes, with Scheifele, and ultimately we would see more wins as a result. He’s being held back in my opinion and the way the Jets handle young talent is really given me a nasty view of them.

Once again...

Laine played over 73% of his ice time with Scheifele last year.

He had the 5th most ice time of all NHL RWs, all at even strength or on the PP.

He had more ice time than Wheeler over the past two seasons.

 

[KingBogo]

Hey just reading up in here... a lot of discussion over Laine and what he’s worth.

What are our thoughts on Laine being moved this offseason? Usually where there’s smoke there’s fire and he’s ranked pretty high on the TSN trade bait board.

I can’t see why Chevy would pull off a trade involving Laine, unless he’s asked for a trade and stated he won’t sign long term here. I’m in Laine’s corner here, he’s playing behind an aging dinosaur in Blake Wheeler who really in all reality is not as talented as Laine.

With his skill level he should be playing more minutes, with Scheifele, and ultimately we would see more wins as a result. He’s being held back in my opinion and the way the Jets handle young talent is really given me a nasty view of them.

Last season Laine played 764:16 5X5 minutes with Scheifele with a 46.14 CF% and a 43.51 xGF%, while Wheeler and Scheifele played 407:46 5X5 minutes together with a 50.78 CF% and a 48.90 xGF%.

 

[Whileee]

Last season Laine played 764:16 5X5 minutes with Scheifele with a 46.14 CF% and a 43.51 xGF%, while Wheeler and Scheifele played 407:46 5X5 minutes together with a 50.78 CF% and a 48.90 xGF%.

Laine also played LW some with Scheifele and Wheeler.

 

[Teemusalami204]

He barely outperformed Wheeler this year, and that was with Scheifele. Laine definitely didn't put up back to back 90 points seasons prior. I'm sorry but Wheeler is no slouch, and seems to complement 2 finishers better than Laine. If Patty plays his way up there fine, but it shouldn't be a big deal if he is playing with our best play driver, as everyone says, the points should still come.

For me it’s not that he’s playing with sheif. It’s that there’s a good enough c for him to play with.

 

[Daximus]

For me it’s not that he’s playing with sheif. It’s that there’s a good enough c for him to play with.

Laine and Ehlers work well together. They just need a C to drive play. I don't even think that C needs to be massively defensively responsible. Just on a similar level to Stastny. We don't need a Selke candidate. Just someone capable of helping them transition and that can reliably feed them pucks. Probably wouldn't hurt if that center can help out low in the offensive zone too as Laine isn't particularly strong along the boards and down in the trenches in the offensive zone.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Laine and Ehlers work well together. They just need a C to drive play. I don't even think that C needs to be massively defensively responsible. Just on a similar level to Stastny. We don't need a Selke candidate. Just someone capable of helping them transition and that can reliably feed them pucks. Probably wouldn't hurt if that center can help out low in the offensive zone too as Laine isn't particularly strong along the boards and down in the trenches in the offensive zone.

Bang on. With the right c playing with nik and patty we could two first lines.

 

[Daximus]

Bang on. With the right c playing with nik and patty we could two first lines.

The trouble is getting that C. There aren't exactly a lot of strong candidates out there.

 

[DRW204]

Hey just reading up in here... a lot of discussion over Laine and what he’s worth.

What are our thoughts on Laine being moved this offseason? Usually where there’s smoke there’s fire and he’s ranked pretty high on the TSN trade bait board.

I can’t see why Chevy would pull off a trade involving Laine, unless he’s asked for a trade and stated he won’t sign long term here. I’m in Laine’s corner here, he’s playing behind an aging dinosaur in Blake Wheeler who really in all reality is not as talented as Laine.

With his skill level he should be playing more minutes, with Scheifele, and ultimately we would see more wins as a result. He’s being held back in my opinion and the way the Jets handle young talent is really given me a nasty view of them.

Laine got top line minutes this year, more minutes with Scheifele than Wheeler did, and had the highest 5v5 toi/gp in the league, as well as a mainstay on pp1. all usage concerns should be put to dead. The top line performed better with Wheeler on it than Laine too.

 

[Teemusalami204]

The trouble is getting that C. There aren't exactly a lot of strong candidates out there.

And we only have 6.7 million to improve the team. That’s without littles contract. I still beleive the option will be open for him to come back when he wants making his cap hit unusable

 

[DRW204]

View attachment 368312

Rantanen has 250 career points
Drafted 2015
Born 1996

Laine has 247 career points
Drafted 2016
Born 1998

View attachment 368315


I'm not gonna add career usage. Surixon already detailed that part.

Using the discussed values above, Laine should command at lowest Rantanen's salary already.

That is fair i believe.
Which i think Laine have a good chance of accepting, with meeting that he is top rw going forward. Not filler.

rantanen has been a ppg player+ for 3 years now, as well as PPG+ in the playoffs. Laine doesn't have either. yeah laine was superior early in his career but his shooting efficiency has fallen off now from elite to good and Rantanen has surpassed him since the first 2 years. Laine is not worth 2M+ more than Connor.

 

[HHel]

Yes Laine played a lot with Scheifele this season, but it doesn't take that away, that there was all the time 2/3 CSW line with him. I think that's on Maurice. He should have tried Ehlers, Copp or even Perrault on that line with Scheif and Laine and see how that works. It's hilarious that when something doesn't work it's allways Laine's fault.

 

[DRW204]

Yes Laine played a lot with Scheifele this season, but it doesn't take that away, that there was all the time 2/3 CSW line with him. I think that's on Maurice. He should have tried Ehlers, Copp or even Perrault on that line with Scheif and Laine and see how that works. It's hilarious that when something doesn't work it's allways Laine's fault.

CSW was not to bad this past year tho
177mins 53 CF%, 57GF% (8 GF, 6 GA - 2.71 gf/60 2.03 ga/60), 47.98 xGF

actually better #s - although smaller sample - than what laine and scheifele did together

 

[leer2006]

He barely outperformed Wheeler this year, and that was with Scheifele. Laine definitely didn't put up back to back 90 points seasons prior. I'm sorry but Wheeler is no slouch, and seems to complement 2 finishers better than Laine. If Patty plays his way up there fine, but it shouldn't be a big deal if he is playing with our best play driver, as everyone says, the points should still come.

To be fair Wheeler never performed at nearly the same level as Laine at the same point in his Career and he started when he was 22 when he entered the league. Plus one could argue that while Wheeler has put up more points in the last few season does he have those same points with out Laine? Wheelers point production jumped huge when Laine joined the team.

 

[leer2006]

CSW was not to bad this past year tho
177mins 53 CF%, 57GF% (8 GF, 6 GA - 2.71 gf/60 2.03 ga/60), 47.98 xGF

actually better #s - although smaller sample - than what laine and scheifele did together

What was the numbers for ESL when they were together ripping the league apart during Laine’s first season. That PoMo never went back to?

 

[voyageur]

To be fair Wheeler never performed at nearly the same level as Laine at the same point in his Career and he started when he was 22 when he entered the league. Plus one could argue that while Wheeler has put up more points in the last few season does he have those same points with out Laine? Wheelers point production jumped huge when Laine joined the team.

Yes Wheeler's point production was helped by Laine on the PP, unequivocally, but return to post #881 to see why Maurice favours that top line with Wheeler.

 

[DRW204]

What was the numbers for ESL when they were together ripping the league apart during Laine’s first season. That PoMo never went back to?

i don't disagree at all that ehlers should be on the top-line. ESW has been by far our best top line the past few years. Unfortunately neither connor or laine are viable play drivers and are terrible defensively, and we do not have another strong top 6 C, so having ESW pretty much kills the 2nd line.

idk why Maurice has not gone back to ESL, they were great 4 years ago. there were some unsustainable aspects to that line imo, ie: that line had a better on-ice SH% than our PP, but when you pair an elite shooter like Scheifele, a great play driver like Ehlers, and Laine, i'd think they'd shoot better than the average top line - not sure why Maurice has not given it any look last couple years.

id love to see

Ehlers-Scheifele-Laine
Connor-Wheeler-X

X can be a multitude of guys.... Palmieri, Dadonov, Granlund, Anderson etc. you'd ahve to acquire him b/c we do not have a viable top 6 RW option in-house currently. For some reason, maurice doesn't like ESL i have no idea why.

But was just commenting that CSW was better in 19-20 vs what Scheifele and Laine did that year. ESL not being used is a whole other puzzle.

 

[Teemusalami204]

To be fair Wheeler never performed at nearly the same level as Laine at the same point in his Career and he started when he was 22 when he entered the league. Plus one could argue that while Wheeler has put up more points in the last few season does he have those same points with out Laine? Wheelers point production jumped huge when Laine joined the team.

wheelrs points jumped huge when he started to play with sheif.

Ehlers and laine are first line players. Yet they get high end second line points playing with little. Wheeler did as well. Your centre dictates a lot about how much points you will get.

 

[voyageur]

ok. It’s understandable that Tkachuk plays behind a player like Johnny Hockey. LD begins McDavid... Laine behind Wheeler tho? Something is wrong here. Laine can outperform Wheeler now and it’s a coaching issue.

For the record Tkachuk outscored Johnny Hockey on the 2nd line as did Patty Kane over Kubalik. So there is something to be said for playing your way to success.

 

[Heldig]

Scheifele needs a Yzerman type transformation and become a Selke quality C. His D play has been awful for 2 seasons now. Given the poor D zone play of our top scorers it is up to the C (and the coach) to sort things out.

 

[Weezeric]

Yes Laine played a lot with Scheifele this season, but it doesn't take that away, that there was all the time 2/3 CSW line with him. I think that's on Maurice. He should have tried Ehlers, Copp or even Perrault on that line with Scheif and Laine and see how that works. It's hilarious that when something doesn't work it's allways Laine's fault.

It’s hilarious how people seem to want to find a mysterious perfect combination of line mates to optimize one player instead of worrying about the team. Never mind that elite players produce no matter whom they play with.

 

[Jack722]

It’s hilarious how people seem to want to find a mysterious perfect combination of line mates to optimize one player instead of worrying about the team. Never mind that elite players produce no matter whom they play with.

Shrug; I think maximizing the effectiveness of a star sniper does make sense v.v. the success of the team. And I don't agree that "elite players product no matter..."; line composition matters.

 

[HHel]

It’s hilarious how people seem to want to find a mysterious perfect combination of line mates to optimize one player instead of worrying about the team. Never mind that elite players produce no matter whom they play with.

Our 2nd line hasn't worked so well past years except with Stats. So we have one ok line as CSW is. Is that ok? If I want to coach try something else, that we haven't tryed past three seasons, so we could have two great lines. Is that somekind of sin? You talk about optimize one player, so if we go ESL, I think Wheeler and Connor should quite well drive that 2nd line. If they can't, they aren't so elite players after all. All this talk about Laine can't drive his own line is kind of absurd.