Player Discussion: Hattrik Laine

[Gabe Kupari]

Maybe the 33 year old Captain has been overplayed a bit. Plenty of 2 minute pps for him doing nothing but fumbling the puck away...

Optimizing? Give the younger guys more minutes.. And the aging possibly quick Wheeler less. Blake is best playing with speed.. Problem? Hes lost some of it. Can't keep up anymore with the young guys.

U wanna optimize? 26 plays with 17. That's optimizing cuz no way should our aging much slower looking captain be getting all these minutes. Yes 29 got more.. 26 still got 2 much.
Bottom line here... Paul Maurice will always send the Vet out first. Its becoming a problem.

 

[Hunter368]

It’s hilarious how people seem to want to find a mysterious perfect combination of line mates to optimize one player instead of worrying about the team. Never mind that elite players produce no matter whom they play with.

Agreed. I’m all for optimizing the team overall, which does include individuals. But I do feel too much attention is given to one player who isn’t even the team best player.

 

[Daximus]

Agreed. I’m all for optimizing the team overall, which does include individuals. But I do feel too much attention is given to one player who isn’t even the team best player.

I think far to many people are worried about Laine winning a Rocket and beating out Matthew's in the goal scoring category rather than this team winning a Cup.

 

[Daximus]

Maybe the 33 year old Captain has been overplayed a bit. Plenty of 2 minute pps for him doing nothing but fumbling the puck away...

Optimizing? Give the younger guys more minutes.. And the aging possibly quick Wheeler less. Blake is best playing with speed.. Problem? Hes lost some of it. Can't keep up anymore with the young guys.

U wanna optimize? 26 plays with 17. That's optimizing cuz no way should our aging much slower looking captain be getting all these minutes. Yes 29 got more.. 26 still got 2 much.
Bottom line here... Paul Maurice will always send the Vet out first. Its becoming a problem.

Even as slow as Wheeler has become he can still outskate and out work most guys on this team.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Maybe the 33 year old Captain has been overplayed a bit. Plenty of 2 minute pps for him doing nothing but fumbling the puck away...

Optimizing? Give the younger guys more minutes.. And the aging possibly quick Wheeler less. Blake is best playing with speed.. Problem? Hes lost some of it. Can't keep up anymore with the young guys.

U wanna optimize? 26 plays with 17. That's optimizing cuz no way should our aging much slower looking captain be getting all these minutes. Yes 29 got more.. 26 still got 2 much.
Bottom line here... Paul Maurice will always send the Vet out first. Its becoming a problem.

One thing I noticed but have never spoke of is Blake’s speed diminishing after about year 3. He used to blow by the defense on either side 20 times a year, now he didn’t score on much of these but his speed was something to be marvelled at. About year 4 these stopped immediately.

He was able to excell his game after this by playing smarter and better positional hockey. He was able to score back to back 90 point seasons still.

For me wheeler isn’t overpaid and I’m happy to see a contract like this handed out by Chevy. Shows the rest of the NHL and our own players we will pay to keep talent.

Maurice just needs to stop playing people by the money the make and if Blake plays the beat on the 2nd or third line even just make it work.

It’s not wheelers fault he got paid. He earned it.

 

[surixon]

One thing I noticed but have never spoke of is Blake’s speed diminishing after about year 3. He used to blow by the defense on either side 20 times a year, now he didn’t score on much of these but his speed was something to be marvelled at. About year 4 these stopped immediately.

He was able to excell his game after this by playing smarter and better positional hockey. He was able to score back to back 90 point seasons still.

For me wheeler isn’t overpaid and I’m happy to see a contract like this handed out by Chevy. Shows the rest of the NHL and our own players we will pay to keep talent.

Maurice just needs to stop playing people by the money the make and if Blake plays the beat on the 2nd or third line even just make it work.

It’s not wheelers fault he got paid. He earned it.

Wheeler is among and speed is one of the first things to go. He still has a number of good attributes but likely will need to be mived to the second line with reduced minutes in the future to keep him effective.

 

[HHel]

I think far to many people are worried about Laine winning a Rocket and beating out Matthew's in the goal scoring category rather than this team winning a Cup.

I just want Winnipeg winning a Cup, but here is far to many people hating one player, that they don't want coach to try different line combinations, because we could find something really good and that could be road to the gold.

 

[AWSAA]

Wheeler is among and speed is one of the first things to go. He still has a number of good attributes but likely will need to be mived to the second line with reduced minutes in the future to keep him effective.

How much longer are they going to keep him propping him up over Ehlers on PP1? What do Blake's numbers look like without that spot?

 

[Whileee]

Wheeler is still fast, and he's still 6'5". People are over-emphasizing his "decline". He didn't play with the same pace last season when he played C (which is usual), but he played fast when he was on RW with Scheifele, with either Laine or Connor at LW.

Refresh your memory with this highlights package... check out the clips at 2:05, 3:30 and 4:00. Wheeler can still fly at 6'5".

 

[NotCommitted]

I think far to many people are worried about Laine winning a Rocket and beating out Matthew's in the goal scoring category rather than this team winning a Cup.

That's complete strawman and likely mostly untrue and adds nothing to the discussion in any case. You just brought down your %xGD (good discussion) down massively, shame on you!

 

[iannn]

Wheeler is among and speed is one of the first things to go. He still has a number of good attributes but likely will need to be mived to the second line with reduced minutes in the future to keep him effective.

Yep. For me one of the biggest arguments against playing Wheeler with Scheifele is that I just don't think he can handle big minutes the same way he used to. He's a guy that goes all out and I think his body has a harder time handling that now. In the last 2 years or so he's looked really slow late in games. It's rare for anyone his age to play 19-20min a game

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Our 2nd line hasn't worked so well past years except with Stats. So we have one ok line as CSW is. Is that ok? If I want to coach try something else, that we haven't tryed past three seasons, so we could have two great lines. Is that somekind of sin? You talk about optimize one player, so if we go ESL, I think Wheeler and Connor should quite well drive that 2nd line. If they can't, they aren't so elite players after all. All this talk about Laine can't drive his own line is kind of absurd.

How is it absurd? In what way does Laine drive any line he's on? He's a passenger, and that's fine.

 

[Daximus]

That's complete strawman and likely mostly untrue and adds nothing to the discussion in any case. You just brought down your %xGD (good discussion) down massively, shame on you!

Seems like I struck a chord. I'd say its likely mostly true. There's a large contingent of Laine fans who wouldnt even think about being Jets fans if it weren't for Laine. Those fans tend to prefer that Laine succeeds over all else.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Wheeler can still skate pretty fast. From what I can see:

22% of his goals were on the powerplay or empty net.
44% of his assists were on the powerplay or empty net.
37% if his total points were on the powerplay or empty net.

At an $8.25M cap hit, I am disappointed by his season. I am very disappointed at how ineffectual he was against Calgary in the play in series.

 

[Jack722]

Wheeler is still fast, and he's still 6'5". People are over-emphasizing his "decline". He didn't play with the same pace last season when he played C (which is usual), but he played fast when he was on RW with Scheifele, with either Laine or Connor at LW.

This is just my eye-test, but I thought he has looked pretty ineffective at 5 on 5 for more than a full season now.

I have no idea what the actual stats say, though.

 

[Daximus]

Wheeler can still skate pretty fast. From what I can see:

22% of his goals were on the powerplay or empty net.
44% of his assists were on the powerplay or empty net.
37% if his total points were on the powerplay or empty net.

At an $8.25M cap hit, I am disappointed by his season. I am very disappointed at how ineffectual he was against Calgary in the play in series.

The whole team outside of Lowry was pretty meh in that series. We aren't a deep enough team at center to handle losing our 1C for an entire series. Also what I get from this is the majority of his production comes at even strength. Why is that bad?

 

[Lowered Expectations]

I think far too many people are getting their dislike for Laine to cloud their eyesight on what is happening in Jets games.

 

[BB88]

You don’t need an sll star C with Laine but you damm sure need better than Copp.

Danault with his defensive game could be awesome fit for Ehlers-Laine duo.
Take the chains of and let them do what they do best

Connor- Scheifele- Wheeler
Ehlers- Danault- Laine
X-Lowry- X

Is a contending top7 100%

Draft Lundell/x with the 10th

 

[Daximus]

You don’t need an sll star C with Laine but you damm sure need better than Copp.

Danault with his defensive game could be awesome fit for Ehlers-Laine duo.
Take the chains of and let them do what they do best

Connor- Scheifele- Wheeler
Ehlers- Danault- Laine
X-Lowry- X

Is a contending top7 100%

Draft Lundell/x with the 10th

What gets it done from a Jets perspective though. Montreal has no intention of moving Danault. So you'd likely have to offer up something big in order for them to part with him.

 

[LowLefty]

Yep. For me one of the biggest arguments against playing Wheeler with Scheifele is that I just don't think he can handle big minutes the same way he used to. He's a guy that goes all out and I think his body has a harder time handling that now. In the last 2 years or so he's looked really slow late in games. It's rare for anyone his age to play 19-20min a game

So replace Wheeler with Laine for his speed and stamina? I know you didn't say but I'll go there anyway
Wheeler will be fine if we work on our D issues - they all looked gassed last year based on spending too much time in their own end.
You'll also find your forwards are on the ice too long when they can't exit the zone. Some will call that player out for taking long shifts when it's actually more to do with possession and fighting for your life when you're boxed in.

I'm not ready to pull the plug on Wheels quite yet - let's get things fixed in other areas (that will support him) first.

 

[PhilJets]

Agreed. I’m all for optimizing the team overall, which does include individuals. But I do feel too much attention is given to one player who isn’t even the team best player.

I think far to many people are worried about Laine winning a Rocket and beating out Matthew's in the goal scoring category rather than this team winning a Cup.

I disagree

That is not what my reply to the discussion.

I was actually Ok with Copp centering Laine and Ehlers. I just want them to have better puck moving dmen to partner them to maximize their skill set.

What i dont disgaree about

People keep trying to prove Laine is bad, as far as comparing him to Ovie.
Laine camp would want 10M+ which is only being posted here by some foster.
That its all about Laine. I just don't want to trade the guy for few average players.

I understand some are already getting irritated with post from Laine fans.
But look at it from the other way. We are Jets fans, we should look for positive stuff that this guy did. Not His xg is so bad he is the worst Jets player. oh he is not Rantanen, he is no Ovie. He is not He is , Patrik Laine of the Winnipeg Jets

Can some of us just be happy we have a type of player like him on this team, which only a hand full exist in the league..

 

[PhilJets]

Wheeler is still fast, and he's still 6'5". People are over-emphasizing his "decline". He didn't play with the same pace last season when he played C (which is usual), but he played fast when he was on RW with Scheifele, with either Laine or Connor at LW.

Refresh your memory with this highlights package... check out the clips at 2:05, 3:30 and 4:00. Wheeler can still fly at 6'5".

For me i never said he is not fast.
Just controlled shift now. As he is mid 30's
I want an optmize Blake, as a Blake Wheeler that can power down the right wing is formidable player for the Jets

 

[PhilJets]

Schiefele right now is worth 8.5M to 9M to most team.

He probably go close to 10M if he plays for New York or Toronto.

He makes a 6M, it got nothing to do with Laine.
If Laine makes 3M more its not Laine's fault.

Ehlers salary should be about Connor's range.
Connor is about right.

I put the graph below in the thread by the numbers: Jets

I will post it here also

View attachment 368293

View attachment 368312

Rantanen has 250 career points
Drafted 2015
Born 1996

Laine has 247 career points
Drafted 2016
Born 1998

View attachment 368315


I'm not gonna add career usage. Surixon already detailed that part.

Using the discussed values above, Laine should command at lowest Rantanen's salary already.

That is fair i believe.
Which i think Laine have a good chance of accepting, with meeting that he is top rw going forward. Not filler.

Yup 10M is not happening.
Reason why i keep insisting.
Laine camp knows this. Its off the discussion as final proposal by Laines camp.
It can be a starter?
Laine camp at 10M, Chevy at 8M and they squeeze from there.

The 9.5M is at high end already.

9M is fair, it just becomes complex as 3 other wingers are paid 6M + But that is not the reason to lose your best winger, youngest moving forward.

8.5M is an awesome deal. The cap will not stay flat also , if you think a 7 -8 year long term for Laine.

The cap will increase on the back half of long term Laine deal.

And like i said in my other post it , will be based on:

What he had accomplished compared with his age group.
His accomplishments as his floor.
What he is projected to be. And its very high based on Chevy.
Then what they want to do with him moving forward. Will he be a mainstay at the top right wing or used when Wheeler only have to be move to play C?


Don't forget goals scored also have a lot of weight in contracts. And i mentioned he was top 10 in the entire league during his 18 to 21 years of age. And at the same age group he was also top 10 historically. Only stamkos was not 80s in that group.
​

rantanen has been a ppg player+ for 3 years now, as well as PPG+ in the playoffs. Laine doesn't have either. yeah laine was superior early in his career but his shooting efficiency has fallen off now from elite to good and Rantanen has surpassed him since the first 2 years. Laine is not worth 2M+ more than Connor.

 

[PhilJets]

Laine also played LW some with Scheifele and Wheeler.

View attachment 368328

I believe that was the start of the year. They tried to do that season 2 of Laine in the pre season. But back then i believe Maurice mentioned in one of his interview he wanted to spread the scoring. That was a 3 headed monster.

For obvious reason Laine will be the one to always drop.
1st Scheifele is the undisputed 1C so he stay on top.
2nd Wheeler is the captain and Veteran. Who is doing good.

Laine was 19.


Though it was pre season, it was the only game those 3 played full together. That line was monster against the Flames with 14-15 points.

 

[PhilJets]

My take on all this discussion?

Laine is one of the best 18-21 Wingers at that age that came recently. The 3rd year with back injury from December to playoff which netted him 50 points was the downward time.
Otherwise that was pretty insane under 22 for a winger.

Broke the teenager longest point streak
November to remember. Only 2 scored more in a given month, but those 2 had more games.
44 goals in 16.5 mins of avg ice time, was unheard of.
19 goals in 15 games , he was the only player scoring for the team.
He was actually giving Matthews a run for his money for the rookie race. Ahead of Matthews in the race lead the Jets in scoring, top 10 in league points before that hit by McCabe. After Laine return he never was back on the top line, for some reason
His goal scoring by age up to 22 was pretty good. Ending up 7th historically on most goals scored before turning 22.