Has this off-season been a dissapointment?

[Foppberg]

From being excited about signing Scott Hannan & Ryan Smyth as a kid to the façade of the Patrick Roy year, and all the other years of pure embarrassment, it's nice to finally look at this team and think good things. At least some of the senior citizens around here got to experience the golden years but for me the last two years have been by far the best experience as an Avs fan. Maybe I'm just drinking the Sea Eagles Kool-Aid but I think this offseason has definitely made us a better team while not really selling off our future to get there.

 

[Gatorbait19]

I think the Avs turned a weakness into a strength (Kadri @ 2C) by turning a perceived strength into a question mark, if not potential weakness (defensive scoring). I like their offseason, don’t love it. I’m fine with posters who feel they didn’t do enough. IMO, On paper they aren’t better beyond a reasonable doubt heading into the 2019-20 campaign.

And for goodness sake, someone give Eeyore aka @henchman24 his tail back!

I do think we’ll miss Tyson, but the 20-30pt drop off (to Makar) has arguably been offset with our additions including Kadri. As you said though, on paper this team is not better than last year beyond a reasonable doubt.

I’d be curious what the defensive scoring stats are by team. That’ll be the best way to evaluate how vital defensive scoring is to team success. It could be nothing or it could be extremely important. I’m guessing it’s somewhere in between.

Also, the player(s) replacing Barrie on the roster are 1 or more of: Byram, Timmins, Connauton, Rosen and Meloche. How do each of those guys compare to Barrie defensively? I frankly don’t know but think those guys are probably better defensively than Barrie.

 

[Iceberg]

LOL.

The PR guy knew not only who was on the market, but also the asking price as well.

Priceless.

 

[The Abusement Park]

So Hayes, huh. The 7y 50M Hayes? THAT Hayes?!? Sure, great idea. We now have Kadri. Who do you prefer?

Ziba was never really on the market. And if so we might have lost Ott 1st to get him. So no Byram. Worth it? I don't think so.

We all know we had a big hole in our lineup. But heck, we had about 10 of those a year before. I'm old enough to know that sometimes patience pay off (Duchene anyone?) and i'm glad that Joe is a patient man and waited for the right time to make the right move.

In the hypothetical situation where Sakic traded for Hayes do you really think Hayes would've gotten that exact contract here? No chance. And I've said my piece on Hayes and his contract. It's bad no doubt, but I think that was more about the Flyers incompetence than anything.

 

[cgf]

I don't even know ... i give up.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I do think we’ll miss Tyson, but the 20-30pt drop off (to Makar) has arguably been offset with our additions including Kadri. As you said though, on paper this team is not better than last year beyond a reasonable doubt.

I’d be curious what the defensive scoring stats are by team. That’ll be the best way to evaluate how vital defensive scoring is to team success. It could be nothing or it could be extremely important. I’m guessing it’s somewhere in between.

Also, the player(s) replacing Barrie on the roster are 1 or more of: Byram, Timmins, Connauton, Rosen and Meloche. How do each of those guys compare to Barrie defensively? I frankly don’t know but think those guys are probably better defensively than Barrie.

Byram isn't really a Barrie replacement since they play different sides imo.

 

[Foxtail]

Had we gotten a legit 2C at any point last year I think we win the round against the Sharks. It was a glaring hole going into the season and it definitely showed.

Had Makar not went back to school another year and signed then perhaps Barrie would have been moved for a 2C last year.

This is how I played out , looks good

 

[Tru]

Dang, I miss Ferguson's show...like a lot!!

 

[Gatorbait19]

Byram isn't really a Barrie replacement since they play different sides imo.

I didn’t say he was a Barrie replacement, just that he’d be taking Barrie’s spot on the roster. Either Cole shifts over to RD or someone replace Cole on 3rd pairing.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Hayes would’ve been easy to acquire at any point in the last year. There were rumors that the rangers were also willing to listen on offers for Zibanejad. Those are the two big ones off the top of my head, I’m not saying it was entirely a mistake to not acquire one last offseason, but after the great start we had adding a 2C should’ve been something we absolutely should’ve have done. With how open the west was we absolutely could’ve gone to the finals last year with a legit 2C.

You can't say Hayes would have easy to acquire at any point last year. From the beginning of Dec the Avs were in a free fall and anytime after that they were risking to give a lottery pick for Hayes. Yeah it could have been protected but then you risk to give a top-5 pick the year after if you keep the pick. The asking price was certainly higher during the season than what they got at the TDL. So no...it was not easy to acquire him unless you know something we don't in that case please share.

As for Zib the price was even higher for him so yeah...not easy as well.

 

[flyfysher]

I think the situations are much closer than you think... and when have the Jets really had cap issues? They hovered ~74m all last season until the deadline ($6m under the cap). 16-17 hovered around $68m until the deadline ($7m under the cap). About $68m in 15-16 ($5m under the cap). They haven't ever had cap issues. They ran into issues of their core not fully panning out, players starting to age past their primes, and a core piece not wanting to stay long-term as a UFA(currently their 2nd or 3rd best player). Any or all of those issues could hit the Avs within 5 seasons. Landy could command a big raise, then fall on his face. Rants could get a deal that takes him right to UFA and walks. Makar could 'only' end up a #3D. Winnipeg failed at building a winner despite great scouting and drafting.

You look at their draft record the talent they pulled in over 5 years is kinda incredible
2011- Scheifele and Lowry - #1 and #3Cs
2012 - Trouba and Helle - Top pairing D (at minimum) and #1G
2013 - Morrissey and Copp - Top 4D and Bottom 6 role
2014 - Ehlers - Top 6 wing
2015 - Connor - First line wing

Those 5 drafts along pretty much give a solid core. Add in Buff, Wheeler, and Little roaming, they should have had a much better chance. Even adding in another top 6 winger in Laine hasn't pushed them over.

Great drafting and development alone cannot win a cup.

I'll take your word Hench about the Jets cap situation. I'm not very knowledgeable about other teams. I was reading some posts on their board and they were discussing going forward this season with only 22 players and that includes a couple of AHL scrubs with their contracts. I don't see the Avs quite in that same situation. You're right, great drafting and development alone don't win cups. Frankly my issue with the Jets is that I'm not enamored with Hellebuyck as their G but that's just me. FTR, I still want Knight.

 

[5280]

Yup this... argued it that whole summer, this season, and deadline.

Yeah you did. You’ve been preaching that for a while.... and were definitely right in theory, although in the end I think I’d take Kadri over a lot of the guys who were argued over (although I’m not sure it was an either/or situation, I think Sakic just had a different agenda.)

 

[AvsFanInMichigan]

 

[Balthazar]

View attachment 243611

 

[AvsFanInMichigan]

Thanks for that

 

[katfude]

When you're number 3 behind 2 teams that were absolutely handed talent for nothing this offseason on that list, I think we're doing OK.

Nah scratch that. We didn't get all of Hughes, Kakko, Panarin, Malkin and Marner AND we lost Barrie. We're BONED

 

[TruePowerSlave]

The Bura trade sucked, could have just signed someone as good in free agency without giving up the picks. Otherwise Sakic has been doing a damn fine job once again.

The Rantanen signing is going to be huge, would hate it to be a bridge or 5 years.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

Personally I'm disappointed because we didn't sign Ferland.

 

[Arcade Fire]

I really dislike the Burakovsky trade. I don't believe in his potential so that was a waste of assets IMO. If people around here hated Kerfoot they're gonna hate Burakovsky even more.

 

[Raucherhusten]

 

[John Mandalorian]

It hasn't been a disappointment for me. I'm a little nervous about the youth in the D but I'm also open minded and excited about it. I know there might be some bumps in the road with that but then a really dynamic player joining the team can compensate for that and also any losses in personnel.

 

[cgf]

 

[MarkT]

That's because you people make a lot of assumptions about me

I'm scared of going the way of Winnipeg & not winning a cup (or two) with this core; not failing to win every cup. If we win 2 or 3 I will be thrilled even if they're all when MacK's in his 30s.

Honestly, it's telling that "you people" (I'm enjoying that term) keep using Winnipeg as a comparable, rather than Nashville, Washington, San Jose, Boston, etc.. Why only Winnipeg? Is it because that team seems to fit that argument that teams only have a short window in which to win? - even though there are plenty of counter-examples to that theory in the league.

In the hypothetical situation where Sakic traded for Hayes do you really think Hayes would've gotten that exact contract here? No chance. And I've said my piece on Hayes and his contract. It's bad no doubt, but I think that was more about the Flyers incompetence than anything.

Why on earth would Hayes have signed with the Avs for less. Do the Flyers not exist in this hypothetical scenario? Are they barred from making him an offer? Is his agent suddenly incompetent and unable to check around and see what his client could get from other teams?

 

[cgf]

Honestly, it's telling that "you people" (I'm enjoying that term) keep using Winnipeg as a comparable, rather than Nashville, Washington, San Jose, Boston, etc.. Why only Winnipeg? Is it because that team seems to fit that argument that teams only have a short window in which to win? - even though there are plenty of counter-examples to that theory in the league.



Why on earth would Hayes have signed with the Avs for less. Do the Flyers not exist in this hypothetical scenario? Are they barred from making him an offer? Is his agent suddenly incompetent and unable to check around and see what his client could get from other teams?

It says more about how closely you've read our posts if you've only noticed us mention Winnipeg; when Nashville, (pre-ROR trade) STL, Minny, SJ and plenty of other teams that failed to capitalize on their windows have been brought up by us as well. Winnipeg & Toronto are just the most recent examples to join that ever-expanding list.

PS - No the flyers weren't in on Hayes last summer, that's why he was forced to take a 1-year prove-it deal instead of the term he was looking for at under 6per.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Why on earth would Hayes have signed with the Avs for less. Do the Flyers not exist in this hypothetical scenario? Are they barred from making him an offer? Is his agent suddenly incompetent and unable to check around and see what his client could get from other teams?

Because any reasonable team wouldn’t have given him all of that. The flyers are known to hand out stupid long term contracts exactly like the Hayes one. There’s also a good chance Hayes didn’t really want to sign in Philly and Philly had to offer him a contract like that to get him to stay. I think Hayes gets either 6.75+ or a NMC if he signs somewhere else, not both.