Has this off-season been a dissapointment?

[flyfysher]

Yeah, that's why I'm more worried about keeping our core through the retool than I am keeping our depth pieces. So that's why it's the core & their contracts that define our windows IMO

There's more than one way of doing things right. Unfortunately there are always a lot more ways of screwing things up though.

 

[RockLobster]

Not surprisingly, I think we did outstandingly (and I mean better than every other team in the NHL). Here's why: Longetivity. Look at our respective positions, then check out their ages! This is just at forward as well, our defense is younger, with guys like Byram, Zadorov, Girard, Makar, Timmins (who could all be legit top 1-3 guys) if lucky. This also shows our window (as people call it) could be a very long winded window)

Left Wing
+ Landeskog (who's now shown he can be a point-per-game player talent) 26 years old
+ Burakovsky (Cup winner now already, with massive potential upside. Big too - adds size/grit. Bigger than Landy) 24 years old
+ Wilson (veteran experience. In his prime. Lit up these playoffs and got rewarded with a short lesser contract) 29 years old
+ Calvert (Must have on any Cup like team imo. Adds grit / fight / determination, but also has offensive ability) 29 years old
+ Nieto (small, but fiesty and gritty. Stood up in the playoffs. I think that may spring board him. Will have better linemates) 26 years old

Center
+ Mackinnon (Not much to say. I DO believe he's once in a generation. Possibly best player in the league) 23 years old
+ Kadri (Boy did we need secondary scoring, more fight, more grit, more aggression - its what we lacked) 28 years old
+ Jost (people say he's not producing, but tell you what, he's curving / trending up exponentially - will have better line-mates) 21 years old
+ Newhook (unknown, but rumoured to have amazing wheels, and silky skills. Some say he may play at seasons end) 18 years old
+ Kamenev (guy has grit, skill, skating. Injury has really set him back. He is DARNED TOOTIN good though) 22 years old
+ Bellemare (locker room guy. Gritty, strong, tough. Like Calvert, a must have, and the more the better. No more being bullied) 34 years old
+ Bowers (pretty hyped player. Has a great reputation. Look forward to him jumping up at some point) 19 years old

Right Wing
+ Rantanen (Love that we have our own Jagr on the team. Guy could be absolutely anything) 22 years old
+ Kaut (Is improving exponentially in the AHL, and I expect him to be a call up this very season) 19 years old
+ Donskoi (Not given opportunity too much at The Sharks, but adds grit, scoring at LEAST at 40 point pace) 27 years old
+ Compher (Love everything about JT. Just an all round utility player. Is so determined and gritty) 24 years old

Jeez. Young, determined, experienced now (playoffs AND cups), balanced. I see nothing but Stanley Cup for us. Sorry, but there it is. Amazing forward, and as strong balance wise as I've seen this team EVER, including the Nordique days I loved.

-Burakovsky may have size, but Caps fans who have watched him since he was drafted will tell you that he's not exactly a "gritty" guy.

-Landeskog may have very well just experienced his apex, offensively. His statistical history shows us that he's pretty much automatic for 50+ points and 20+ goals a year, last year is very likely to be his all-time high.

-Wilson, Calvert, and Nieto, while having an important role on the team, are not really what you're making them out to be. There are shades of truth, but it's overwhelmed by how much you pump their tires in other areas.

-Nothing really to say on MacKinnon or Kadri, they are proven commodities in the NHL.

-The only people I've seen speculating that Newhook may play at the end of his NCAA season are not who I'd considered "qualified" to speak on that. Newhook, while possessing some very intriguing skills, is still raw as hell and will likely need 2 years in the NCAA.

-Jost had a fine end to the playoffs, but his entire NHL body of work to date shows a player that was not a Top-10 worthy selection. This is a big offseason and season for him. It's important that he capitalize on those final 3 games, but again--the larger picture (i.e.--his entire NHL experience before) shows that he may not end up being a Top-6 player.

-Kamenev pretty much having 2 full seasons wiped out, in prime development years no less, causes him to have extreme question marks. I'd say that's largely why Bellemare was brought in. Is it Kam's fault that he suffered two freak injuries? No, but that's part of the game, if you're not on the ice your subject to be passed by. He has such a ridiculously small sample size at the NHL level for us to know whether or not he's going to stick (remember Greg Mauldin looked fine in a very limited stint before he went back to being exactly who he was).

I don't even have the will to go forward with the right wings

To say that this is the most balanced team, including the Nordiques days, is flat out wrong...especially the Nordiques team that moved to Colorado. This is a promising team, and one that Joe did what he said he would do (be aggressive in building it), but it's also a team full of question marks right now, particularly around the extremely young defense, Grubauer/Francouz, and what the Avs actually have in players like Jost and Timmins (Timmins is particularly an interesting question because I've heard that if he didn't have the concussion issues, the Avs were pretty much penciling him into their Top-6 last year).

Be excited, definitely, but there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that there are some questions yet to be answered. On paper this team looks better built to compete, but the real world doesn't always play out the same.

 

[cgf]

There's more than one way of doing things right. Unfortunately there are always a lot more ways of screwing things up though.

True that. Bad moves are bad whether they are pro-active or patient.

 

[cgf]

-The only people I've seen speculating that Newhook may play at the end of his NCAA season are not who I'd considered "qualified" to speak on that. Newhook, while possessing some very intriguing skills, is still raw as hell and will likely need 2 years in the NCAA.

Bless you for the rest of this post, but hasn't Henchy mentioned Newhook signing his ELC after his college season depending on how he transitions?...i.e. if he can continue to create space with his skating regularly, at the college level and he isn't getting pushed around in puck battles.

I'm not the biggest Newhook fan on this board, but with Kadri in tow meaning that Newhook will likely be introduced on the wing...before transitioning to C full-time when Kadri's contract expires, if he's up to it...he won't need as much polish before being ready enough to be rushed.

 

[RockLobster]

Bless you for the rest of this post, but hasn't Henchy mentioned Newhook signing his ELC after his college season depending on how he transitions?...i.e. if he can continue to create space with his skating regularly, at the college level and he isn't getting pushed around in puck battles.

I'm not the biggest Newhook fan on this board, but with Kadri in tow meaning that Newhook will likely be introduced on the wing; before transitioning to C full-time when Kadri's contract expires; he won't need as much polish before being ready enough to be rushed.

Perhaps I should have chosen my words carefully, because it is absolutely the Avs' MO to rush a high-pick (hence why we may end up seeing Byram this season...among other reasons).

Now, I do not know if Henchy has said that, if he has I would assume that he was coming from the mindset that it would happen because the Avs have a tendency to rush prospects.

So my comment was aimed more towards...I want to say I think I've seen Mike Chambers speculate that, perhaps even AD?

 

[henchman21]

Now, I do not know if Henchy has said that, if he has I would assume that he was coming from the mindset that it would happen because the Avs have a tendency to rush prospects.

I know nothing personally with Newhook, so if I have said it... RL is right on here with intent. I fully expect Newhook to be signed in March if his season goes decently well.

 

[cgf]

I may have just thought that I read it on here rather than having assumed it myself

But yeah, I'm expecting Byram to get his 9/40 games, at least, and Joe to at least approach Newhook about signing his ELC to bolster us down the stretch, without us having to buy at the TDL.

 

[Sea Eagles]

I didn't make that many predictions in my post, I thought I spoke about historical result, and in my mind was relatively factual.

I get it. People want to er on the side of caution. People have a tendency to look at the worst case scenario when hypothesizing.

Let's look at the facts:
* We made the 2nd round of the playoffs, and in the process , made The Flames, a bloody good team, look pretty awful. We then pressed The Sharks in 7.

* Throughout the season, some teams bullied us a little, and shelled us on ocassion.

* We had some pretty rough (yes, even I can admit) goaltending throughout the season proper.

* Bednar uncovered, gave opportunity , and developed some real fantastic talent

People said we couldn't make the playoffs 2 seasons ago. THEN , people.laugjed when I'd said we'd make the second round of the playoffs this season (because apparently we just HAD to regress according to some). Now, people are telling me I'm over the top because I'm predicting we are a heavy weight, ready for a tilt.

We addressed all the concerns we had last season:
1. Size
2. Grit
3. Net presence

We have consistency with the core. We have consistency in coaching. We've add cup winners , and cup contending players. We've got cap. We've got depth that other teams could dream of.

Rocklobster, this was a promising team 2 years ago. We improved as I suspected we would to a competitive team last season (despite issues between the pipes). Next season , we are contenders, bank it.

The Nordiques team that came to Colorado was also a promising team. Foote wasn't a veteran. Sakic was amazing. But we had a whole host of youngish players with potential (not just the big names).

They became competitors. This group can and WILL do the same.

I respect everyone's opinion, don't get me wrong. I've said it 3 years straight now though. Get on board. This is going to be awesome.

I have to address some calls though.

1. Why is it assumed Landys apex has been reached? Might just be a spring board ?

2. Why assume the conservative for Kamenev. I've read, listened, and watched some amazing stuff about this man and player.

3. Agree on Jost about improving in the playoffs. What's to say he can't continue that trajectory?

This is a team now. A harmonic, balanced team. Look at what other fans, media, coaches say! Fast, exciting, team. We'll be hoisting a cup very shortly. Bank it.

 

[cgf]

I didn't make that many predictions in my post, I thought I spoke about historical result, and in my mind was relatively factual.

I get it. People want to er on the side of caution. People have a tendency to look at the worst case scenario when hypothesizing.

Let's look at the facts:
* We made the 2nd round of the playoffs, and in the process , made The Flames, a bloody good team, look pretty awful. We then pressed The Sharks in 7.

* Throughout the season, some teams bullied us a little, and shelled us on ocassion.

* We had some pretty rough (yes, even I can admit) goaltending throughout the season proper.

* Bednar uncovered, gave opportunity , and developed some real fantastic talent

People said we couldn't make the playoffs 2 seasons ago. THEN , people.laugjed when I'd said we'd make the second round of the playoffs this season (because apparently we just HAD to regress according to some). Now, people are telling me I'm over the top because I'm predicting we are a heavy weight, ready for a tilt.

We addressed all the concerns we had last season:
1. Size
2. Grit
3. Net presence

We have consistency with the core. We have consistency in coaching. We've add cup winners , and cup contending players. We've got cap. We've got depth that other teams could dream of.

Rocklobster, this was a promising team 2 years ago. We improved as I suspected we would to a competitive team last season (despite issues between the pipes). Next season , we are contenders, bank it.

The Nordiques team that came to Colorado was also a promising team. Foote wasn't a veteran. Sakic was amazing. But we had a whole host of youngish players with potential (not just the big names).

They became competitors. This group can and WILL do the same.

I respect everyone's opinion, don't get me wrong. I've said it 3 years straight now though. Get on board. This is going to be awesome.

I have to address some calls though.

1. Why is it assumed Landys apex has been reached? Might just be a spring board ?

2. Why assume the conservative for Kamenev. I've read, listened, and watched some amazing stuff about this man and player.

3. Agree on Jost about improving in the playoffs. What's to say he can't continue that trajectory?

This is a team now. A harmonic, balanced team. Look at what other fans, media, coaches say! Fast, exciting, team. We'll be hoisting a cup very shortly. Bank it.

We did that with Barrie & Makar on the ice for 42 minutes a night, causing teams to hesitate & reconsider dump-ins or low-percentage shots that they would normal let fly, not wanting to cede possession & a transition opportunities without catching their breath first...which in turn gave our defenders more time to pressure the puck and force more changes in possession & more transition opportunities.

So it feels dishonest to use our playoff performance last season as a reason for us to do even better this season, when we just lost 25 minutes a night of one of the biggest reasons we did so well in the playoffs, to get Kadri.

The upgrades up front will offset some of that blueline advantage that we lost, but they aren't a pure gain even if Makar is better than Tyson ever was, right away. We'd need Cale to be a rock from day 1, Girard & Zads/Byram to take big strides, and EJ to find the fountain of youth...or Timmins to become everything some hype him to be, right away. If all of that doesn't happen this coming season, we're talking a step-back on the blueline; a step-back that may or may not be outweighed by those upgrades up front...some of which you are making some awfully optimistic assumptions about.

 

[RockLobster]

I didn't make that many predictions in my post, I thought I spoke about historical result, and in my mind was relatively factual.

I get it. People want to er on the side of caution. People have a tendency to look at the worst case scenario when hypothesizing.

Let's look at the facts:
* We made the 2nd round of the playoffs, and in the process , made The Flames, a bloody good team, look pretty awful. We then pressed The Sharks in 7.

* Throughout the season, some teams bullied us a little, and shelled us on ocassion.

* We had some pretty rough (yes, even I can admit) goaltending throughout the season proper.

* Bednar uncovered, gave opportunity , and developed some real fantastic talent

People said we couldn't make the playoffs 2 seasons ago. THEN , people.laugjed when I'd said we'd make the second round of the playoffs this season (because apparently we just HAD to regress according to some). Now, people are telling me I'm over the top because I'm predicting we are a heavy weight, ready for a tilt.

We addressed all the concerns we had last season:
1. Size
2. Grit
3. Net presence

We have consistency with the core. We have consistency in coaching. We've add cup winners , and cup contending players. We've got cap. We've got depth that other teams could dream of.

Rocklobster, this was a promising team 2 years ago. We improved as I suspected we would to a competitive team last season (despite issues between the pipes). Next season , we are contenders, bank it.

The Nordiques team that came to Colorado was also a promising team. Foote wasn't a veteran. Sakic was amazing. But we had a whole host of youngish players with potential (not just the big names).

They became competitors. This group can and WILL do the same.

I respect everyone's opinion, don't get me wrong. I've said it 3 years straight now though. Get on board. This is going to be awesome.

I have to address some calls though.

1. Why is it assumed Landys apex has been reached? Might just be a spring board ?

2. Why assume the conservative for Kamenev. I've read, listened, and watched some amazing stuff about this man and player.

3. Agree on Jost about improving in the playoffs. What's to say he can't continue that trajectory?

This is a team now. A harmonic, balanced team. Look at what other fans, media, coaches say! Fast, exciting, team. We'll be hoisting a cup very shortly. Bank it.

The NHL is way more than just generic buzzwords like "grit" or "determination". Yes, those somewhat undefinable traits are not just useful, but seemingly required to win, but it takes more than that.

Just a quick answer on the Nordiques stuff...Adam Foote had 161 games played in the NHL when the Nords moved to Colorado, so yeah...I'd say he was a veteran of the NHL at that point.

1994-95 Quebec Nordiques Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

That is the 1994-95 roster (the year before they moved to Colorado). I'd say it's incredibly balanced, and features at least 2 all-time greats HoFers (Sakic and Forsberg), as well as being littered with talented young players in Deadmarsh, Ricci, Foote, Kamensky, etc. In fact it was their depth and balance that allowed them the opportunity to make the trade for Roy that shored up their team and helped bring us our two Stanley Cups.

Now, for your questions:

1) Goaltending gear changed last year, and scoring seemed to be up as a whole. Perhaps it stays that way, but it's not something that should necessarily just be counted on. The smart approach is to look at Landeskog's career to date and do exactly what many of us do--pencil him in for his 50+ points, 20+ goals season. That coupled with the statistical data that shows that most non-elite forwards have their "peaks" during their 22-26/27 year old seasons, that would indicate that last year has a good chance at being his all-time best. I'm not saying that it's impossible he replicates it, just that the data doesn't support it being a certainty.

2) We assume the conservative on Kamenev because he has 28 games of NHL experience spread across 3 different seasons, he's going to be 23 when the season starts, and he's missed the majority of the last 2 years (which are, as I said, prime development years). He's not really shown that he's a full-time NHLer, and thus he's going to have to earn it through staying on the ice and being better than a proven NHL commodity. That's just facts.

3) I didn't say Jost can't continue that trajectory, however he has improvement to make in either his board play (if he is going to be a wing) or his skating (if he's going to stick at C)...and those who are way more knowledgeable on the finer issues with skating point out that he may never get to a place where he can be a bonafide Top-6 C, but perhaps a really good 3C. Furthermore, as I already stated, his entire body of work before those last 3 games of the playoffs show a player who is...just not what some want him to be. So again, this is a case of what his play at the NHL level shows and that the last 3 games of the playoffs are an extremely small sample size. Basically, he has work to do, and working hard hasn't been his issue and he still hasn't been able to breakthrough yet.

 

[S3rkie]

We did that with Barrie & Makar on the ice for 42 minutes a night, causing teams to hesitate & reconsider dump-ins or low-percentage shots that they would normal let fly, not wanting to cede possession & a transition opportunities without catching their breath first...which in turn gave our defenders more time to pressure the puck and force more changes in possession & more transition opportunities.

So it feels dishonest to use our playoff performance last season as a reason for us to do even better this season, when we just lost 25 minutes a night of one of the biggest reasons we did so well in the playoffs to get Kadri.

The upgrades up front will offset some of that blueline advantage that we lost, but they aren't a pure gain even if Makar is better than Tyson ever was, right away. We'd need Cale to be a rock from day 1, Girard & Zads/Byram to take big strides, and EJ to find the fountain of youth...or Timmins to become everything some hype him to be, right away. If all of that doesn't happen this coming season, we're talking a step-back on the blueline; a step-back that may or may not be outweighed by those upgrades up front...some of which you are making some awfully optimistic assumptions about.

People expecting Makar to light the league on fire are probably going to end up disappointed if the guy gets to 40 points I'll be ecstatic. Once the adrenaline is gone he's going to need time to adjust especially playing a full NHL season amount of games for the first time in his career. I think a lot of the next season relies on if Girard's offense develops. He's the most realistic option to take a step. Z is pretty much what he is at this point maybe he can be utilized more effectively but he skill and thought process in the game isnt going to change drastically all of the sudden.

 

[cgf]

People expecting Makar to light the league on fire are probably going to end up disappointed if the guy gets to 40 points I'll be ecstatic. Once the adrenaline is gone he's going to need time to adjust especially playing a full NHL season amount of games for the first time in his career. I think a lot of the next season relies on if Girard's offense develops. He's the most realistic option to take a step. Z is pretty much what he is at this point maybe he can be utilized more effectively but he skill and thought process in the game isnt going to change drastically all of the sudden.

Yeah. Byram & Timmins are total wild cards who could change this conversation completely, but I'm pretty much in line with all of this on Cale, Samwise & Russian Nik. Between playing a full NHL season for the first time, and the burden we'd need him to carry, I can't expect Cale to anchor us night in & night out...even I do think he'll shine in that role more nights than not...and Girard has another couple of steps in him. So it would really be huge if he could take a big step towards becoming the left-shooting Jared Spurgeon I've been hoping for since we got him.

Especially since I don't think EJ will be terrible enough for Joe to feel like he has to make a move for someone like Faulk to bolster us.

 

[S3rkie]

Yeah. Byram & Timmins are total wild cards who could change this conversation completely, but I'm pretty much in line with all of this on Cale, Samwise & Russian Nik. Between playing a full NHL season for the first time, and the burden we'd need him to carry, I can't expect Cale to anchor us night in & night out...even I do think he'll shine in that role more nights than not...and Girard has another couple of steps in him. So it would really be huge if he could take a big step towards becoming the left-shooting Jared Spurgeon I've been hoping for since we got him.

Especially since I don't think EJ will be terrible enough for Joe to feel like he has to make a move for someone like Faulk to bolster us.

Yeah for sure, I really hope Byram and Timmins get another year of development before being shoved into he line up, unless they both just blow away in camp and force Joe's hands. I still find it weird they continued to bring in LD's when they clearly had a good idea Barrie wasn't going to be here. I wonder if there's still a small D trade coming, because the roster as is looks crazy unbalanced.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I think it will be very important for Bednar to manage Makar's TOI very carefully. If not he will most likely hit a wall at some point just like any other college player did in the past.

 

[flyfysher]

I wonder if there's still a small D trade coming, because the roster as is looks crazy unbalanced.

 

[flyfysher]

I didn't make that many predictions in my post, I thought I spoke about historical result, and in my mind was relatively factual.

I get it. People want to er on the side of caution. People have a tendency to look at the worst case scenario when hypothesizing.

Let's look at the facts:
* We made the 2nd round of the playoffs, and in the process , made The Flames, a bloody good team, look pretty awful. We then pressed The Sharks in 7.

* Throughout the season, some teams bullied us a little, and shelled us on ocassion.

* We had some pretty rough (yes, even I can admit) goaltending throughout the season proper.

* Bednar uncovered, gave opportunity , and developed some real fantastic talent

People said we couldn't make the playoffs 2 seasons ago. THEN , people.laugjed when I'd said we'd make the second round of the playoffs this season (because apparently we just HAD to regress according to some). Now, people are telling me I'm over the top because I'm predicting we are a heavy weight, ready for a tilt.

We addressed all the concerns we had last season:
1. Size
2. Grit
3. Net presence

We have consistency with the core. We have consistency in coaching. We've add cup winners , and cup contending players. We've got cap. We've got depth that other teams could dream of.

Rocklobster, this was a promising team 2 years ago. We improved as I suspected we would to a competitive team last season (despite issues between the pipes). Next season , we are contenders, bank it.

The Nordiques team that came to Colorado was also a promising team. Foote wasn't a veteran. Sakic was amazing. But we had a whole host of youngish players with potential (not just the big names).

They became competitors. This group can and WILL do the same.

I respect everyone's opinion, don't get me wrong. I've said it 3 years straight now though. Get on board. This is going to be awesome.

I have to address some calls though.

1. Why is it assumed Landys apex has been reached? Might just be a spring board ?

2. Why assume the conservative for Kamenev. I've read, listened, and watched some amazing stuff about this man and player.

3. Agree on Jost about improving in the playoffs. What's to say he can't continue that trajectory?

This is a team now. A harmonic, balanced team. Look at what other fans, media, coaches say! Fast, exciting, team. We'll be hoisting a cup very shortly. Bank it.

Next season could get really interesting. The Avs could be fantastic or underperform. There will be continuing adjustments to be made. So I'm looking for 3 things. 1. For JB to get to know his players and know what line combos and D pairings to use in different situations by season's end; 2. To make the POs and have everyone be healthy and available; and to not be fighting for the last PO spot. Ultimately the regular season doesn't matter except for number 2. So if the Avs have a losing streak then no, we won't be happy but we shouldn't freak either if they aren't a candidate to win the President's Trophy. To the extent that people seem to imply the Avs will be unsuccessful if they encounter adversity seems crazy to me because you want to know what you have and most importantly, to learn how to positively respond to it. The regular season is just the tune up to the big dance.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The most important thing for next season is consistency imo. No more losing 11 of 14 and then rattling of 7 straight wins.

 

[cgf]

Yeah for sure, I really hope Byram and Timmins get another year of development before being shoved into he line up, unless they both just blow away in camp and force Joe's hands. I still find it weird they continued to bring in LD's when they clearly had a good idea Barrie wasn't going to be here. I wonder if there's still a small D trade coming, because the roster as is looks crazy unbalanced.

I don't mind Byram starting in the NHL since I'm not sure he has much more to gain from the dub...even if we ended up sending him back down before he hit that 40 games on the roster mark. As long as he's not getting pushed around physically and wrecked, I'm ok with us trying to work him in in a platoon on that 3rd pairing.

Timmins, I have no expectations for and just want to see what he looks like in the AHL before making any sort of plans.

 

[S3rkie]

I don't mind Byram starting in the NHL since I'm not sure he has much more to gain from the dub...even if we ended up sending him back down before he hit that 40 games on the roster mark. As long as he's not getting pushed around physically and wrecked, I'm ok with us trying to work him in in a platoon on that 3rd pairing.

Timmins, I have no expectations for and just want to see what he looks like in the AHL before making any sort of plans.

I just wish that chl agreement with the ahl would at least be adjusted. I wonder how many players development curve would be different if they were allowed to go to the A earlier so they weren't forced into the NHL or have to stay in juniors longer than needed. I hope more players start going the Euro route to force the issue.

 

[MarkT]

I guess that's fair, though I'd like to know which moves specifically you think would result in us bottoming out, because I generally like to leave enough futures with which to make further tweaks, that would leave us well positioned for a re-tool with our core, if they weren't all needed to push this project over the edge...at least when I'm being serious & not just indulging my lonelybadger-side


I think I get where you're coming from...if I have you correctly, you'd much rather be SJ with their decade+ of having at least a playoff-caliber team, rather than LA who had a great 4 year run before becoming a lower level playoff team and now needing to rebuild, not just retool. Not that I'm arguing for a Kings' esque run, just trying to put examples to this to get where you're at.

My big problem with that thinking is that when you try to have your cake & eat it too, you almost always end up not getting to enjoy either...and I feel that an eternal re-tool like you're describing runs a huge risk of slamming head first into that problem.

Of course you can't guarantee a cup...which is the entire reason I wanted us to give ourselves as many swings as possible at it so we can at least win 1 with this unique opportunity we have. But you can guarantee that you won't win the cup by not putting together the pieces necessary to make that run even if the stars were to align for you...like pre-ROR & Binnington STL...and not giving ourselves multiple shots with the necessary pieces in place for the stars to align one of those times...like WPG & maybe soon Nashville. And an eternal Re-tool seems highly likely to suffer from both of those problems unless you just so happen to get extremely lucky with the way your core talent aligns timeline-wise.


If the cap didn't exist I wouldn't feel like what you're arguing for was nearly as unlikely to actually work out, but in a cap world you simply can't have a great team for all that long without there being a dip/retool along the way...at least it hasn't happened yet ...unless we get really loose with the term great & decide that it applies to 16 teams a year.

I'm glad we're finally understanding one another. We've had countless arguments at this point about basically the same thing and it turns out neither of us was properly understanding each other. I think I properly get you and you properly get me.

The one thing I'll make clear is I don't think it's likely you can have a great team forever, but that should be the goal. You're bound to fail because even the best decisions sometimes don't work, but I think the goal is worth it. And it explains the difference in our thinking. I want us to be competitive 8, 10, 25 years from now as much as I want them to be competitive this year. You have a laser focus on the next four years because you've identified it (probably rightly) as our best shot at a cup for the foreseeable future.

That difference between us (plus your focus on the cup) leads us to make different suggestions for team building because you want the team to make moves that maximize our chances within the next four years, while I only want them to make such moves if they won't also hurt our chances 5, 6, 7, 8+ years from now.

The Barrie situation is a clear example of this. If your focus is the next four years you not only do not trade him, but you extend him so he can keep providing offense for the team during our upcoming cup runs. I favored trading him because in a cap world keeping him means losing other players, and towards the end of an 8 year Barrie deal he'd probably be the one we'd want to lose, but wouldn't be able to get rid of (without paying a big price). It's for the same reason I might be willing to let Landy walk (or trade him) if it looks like his salary demands will be too high. I love these players (especially Landy), but I think teams that make decisions based on which players they (or fans) love ends up making poor decisions in the long-term.

 

[cgf]

I'm glad we're finally understanding one another. We've had countless arguments at this point about basically the same thing and it turns out neither of us was properly understanding each other. I think I properly get you and you properly get me.

The one thing I'll make clear is I don't think it's likely you can have a great team forever, but that should be the goal. You're bound to fail because even the best decisions sometimes don't work, but I think the goal is worth it. And it explains the difference in our thinking. I want us to be competitive 8, 10, 25 years from now as much as I want them to be competitive this year. You have a laser focus on the next four years because you've identified it (probably rightly) as our best shot at a cup for the foreseeable future.

That difference between us (plus your focus on the cup) leads us to make different suggestions for team building because you want the team to make moves that maximize our chances within the next four years, while I only want them to make such moves if they won't also hurt our chances 5, 6, 7, 8+ years from now.

The Barrie situation is a clear example of this. If your focus is the next four years you not only do not trade him, but you extend him so he can keep providing offense for the team during our upcoming cup runs. I favored trading him because in a cap world keeping him means losing other players, and towards the end of an 8 year Barrie deal he'd probably be the one we'd want to lose, but wouldn't be able to get rid of (without paying a big price). It's for the same reason I might be willing to let Landy walk (or trade him) if it looks like his salary demands will be too high. I love these players (especially Landy), but I think teams that make decisions based on which players they (or fans) love ends up making poor decisions in the long-term.

I guess I just don't think that being the little bit more aggressive we need to to capitalize on this MacK-deal window, would prevent us from remaining a playoff team during the retool...and at worst would just extend the retool a little...given how young our core is and our current surplus of futures.

Do you think Pittsburgh was competitive before they got Kessel, but after their cups? Cause I think that's the kind of team we'll be during the Retool even if we were more aggressive about capitalizing on this initial window...SJ from 5 years ago or so would also be a good example of a lower level playoff team in the midst of transition, which is what I'd expect from us after 2023.

Our core is so young that we won't lose many of them in the retool. That's why the retool will be all about not having the cap space for cup caliber depth...not about lacking the cap space for a cup caliber core unless we tie ourselves down with bad contracts for supporting pieces that should be shed during the eventual retool; which is where the Hawks screwed up.

 

[Foxtail]

The most important thing for next season is consistency imo. No more losing 11 of 14 and then rattling of 7 straight wins.

And improving on the dreadful OT record plus no mpre 2 months of awful goaltending.

If all this improves we win the division