Player Discussion Has Nikolai Goldobin made Sven Baertschi expendable?

[PM]

I voted no but that's because I don't think much of either player. Haven't read through the whole thread but I'm guessing I'm not the only person who thinks that.

Baertschi is the most overrated 30 point forward I've ever seen. With Goldobin I at least get the optimism but Baertschi is 26 now, isn't physical and doesn't score a lot. His injuries are piling up to the point that I don't see him ever turning the corner and taking the next step.

 

[Nomobo]

48 points given his usage still sucks, especially given his lousy defensive play.

Currently the guy has 4 primary points in 22 games while getting 70% zone starts and heaps of PP time next to a guy shredding the league. While being a turnover machine. That's ****ing brutal.

Just because Pettersson and those zone starts are dragging Goldobin to good advanced stats doesn't mean he's been effective.

It's the exact same broken logic and lack of understanding of advanced stats that led the idiots at Canucks Army to proclaim Pat Wiercioch a home run signing based on his good Corsi Rel generated while getting 65% zone starts next to Erik Karlsson.

Throw numbers around, my eye test agrees, he’s been terrible.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Throw numbers around, my eye test agrees, he’s been terrible.

He consistently has a positive effect on his line mates. Weird.

Maybe your eyes are not that good?

 

[Blade Paradigm]

For several consecutive games, Goldobin makes observers question his ability to read plays and make smart decisions, and then he has a game like tonight where he is all over the puck, creating plays and keeping plays alive in the offensive zone.

He was the second star today with 1 goal, 2 points, and 3 shots on goal.





I just don't think he anticipates well enough, nor is he always strong enough on the puck. His skill is obvious. He's on pace for 46 points this season. He is a fringe second-line player who would probably play well as the third wheel on a team with an elite duo. He can't be part of the star duo. Put him with Marner and Tavares, for instance, and I think good things would happen for him. I think if he played with prime Sedin twins, he might look pretty good too.

 

[MS]

He consistently has a positive effect on his line mates. Weird.

Maybe your eyes are not that good?

Whoever he plays with suddenly gets far softer minutes with far higher o-zone starts than they normally do because Green doesn't trust Goldobin anywhere near a tough matchup or defensive zone faceoff.

Also, the wingers on this team really, really suck. You'll get no argument that he's a better player than the likes of Schaller and Motte.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Whoever he plays with suddenly gets far softer minutes with far higher o-zone starts than they normally do because Green doesn't trust Goldobin anywhere near a tough matchup or defensive zone faceoff.

Also, the wingers on this team really, really suck. You'll get no argument that he's a better player than the likes of Schaller and Motte.

That is a good point. Can you show me the numbers, or link where you looked them up?

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Whoever he plays with suddenly gets far softer minutes with far higher o-zone starts than they normally do because Green doesn't trust Goldobin anywhere near a tough matchup or defensive zone faceoff.

Also, the wingers on this team really, really suck. You'll get no argument that he's a better player than the likes of Schaller and Motte.

I've been impressed with the rope Green has given him this season - he's certainly setting him up to succeed. Goldobin certainly hasn't been perfect, but I'd say he's taken baby steps in his play without the puck, and is learning what it takes to be a consistent offensive producer at the NHL level. At least he's getting pucks to the guys who can score. It just blows my mind that a guy with so much skill with the puck can also bobble it so often and miss so many golden opportunities.

Still, I'm happy he's in the lineup and producing some points.

 

[WTG]

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Is it a hot streak or has he turned it around? Still too early to say IMO.
He’s had a bucketful of chances to score lately but has had some bad luck and poor shooting. Maybe he was gripping the stick a bit too tight as the goals weren’t coming.
The encouraging thing is that he continued to rack up points even while not scoring.
That goal last night was from going to the tough area in front of the net.
Kudos to Green for giving him a long leash. They really need to find out what he’s capable of this year to see if he fits the long term plans.
Cautiously optimistic but he needs to start scoring more if he wants to stay in the top 6.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Is it a hot streak or has he turned it around? Still too early to say IMO.
He’s had a bucketful of chances to score lately but has had some bad luck and poor shooting. Maybe he was gripping the stick a bit too tight as the goals weren’t coming.
The encouraging thing is that he continued to rack up points even while not scoring.
That goal last night was from going to the tough area in front of the net.
Kudos to Green for giving him a long leash. They really need to find out what he’s capable of this year to see if he fits the long term plans.
Cautiously optimistic but he needs to start scoring more if he wants to stay in the top 6.

Each of his goals have been of the nice/quality variety - but he's had loads of other chances that seemed like more "gimmes" that he missed on. A higher conversion rate for his shooting would certainly be nice. Hopefully it's all just part of the process of him figuring out the consistency needed to succeed at this level.

 

[Gaunce4gm]

9 points in 11 games and he still gets no respect. What's a guy gotta do?

 

[VanJack]

Goldy is still an intriguing prospect (picked in the same draft as Virtanen). Leading the team in assists and Green seems to be giving him a very long rope. Some of the brain-cramps in his own zone might have got him stapled to the pine like last season. But even the most skeptical observer would have to concede that Goldy has been far better and more consistent than at any point last season. Showing the kind of progression you're looking for from a younger player.

Of course it helps that he plays the left side--which is a bit of black-hole on the Canucks forward group at the moment.

 

[Canucker]

9 points in 11 games and he still gets no respect. What's a guy gotta do?

Not have 10 game pointless streaks? Just needs to be consistent....the same trouble Baertschi has.

 

[Get North]

I think Goldobin is garbage. He wouldn't be on any other teams roster because he's not good enough to be a top 9 player and not versatile to play anywhere else in the line-up. His stats look good because our only other options for Pettersson at wing are Roussel, Schaller, Eriksson, Archibald, Leipsic, Motte, AKA trash.

 

[WTG]

30% of the season in the bag and he's on pace for 51 points.
Things can always sour from here, but there really isn't really much sign that he'll slow down from here.

 

[Soups On]

30% of the season in the bag and he's on pace for 51 points.
Things can always sour from here, but there really isn't really much sign that he'll slow down from here.

Yep. Glad hes actually getting an opportunity. Theres been both good and bad to his game, but these skilled guys just gotta play to work out the kinks.

 

[Mr Plow]

If he can round out his game he'll be a competent second liner. As of right now I still think he's a fringe NHLer, or an offensive/PP specialist who doesn't deserve regular top 6 shifts.

 

[Svencouver]

His consistency is obviously his biggest issue, but I would be remiss to condemn a player that's been pretty steadily improving. I've been a fan this season, although he really does walk the line. One of those top 6 or bust types that's just barely outside of mediocre second liner range.

 

[canuckking1]

He was playing really well and wasn't producing. Now he has games where he is bad and is still putting up points. I guess it's only fair. These last few games he's look legit from the highlights I've seen(Haven't watched last 3 games)

 

[Hit the post]

Indication of just how good EP is...he can make bleach look good on his line.

 

[F A N]

I've been impressed with the rope Green has given him this season - he's certainly setting him up to succeed. Goldobin certainly hasn't been perfect, but I'd say he's taken baby steps in his play without the puck, and is learning what it takes to be a consistent offensive producer at the NHL level. At least he's getting pucks to the guys who can score. It just blows my mind that a guy with so much skill with the puck can also bobble it so often and miss so many golden opportunities.

Still, I'm happy he's in the lineup and producing some points.

Agreed. I think Green has decided that for the most part he wants his skilled players to play an offensive role.

Goldobin is a good young player who is showing promise offensively. I think the Benning hate around here has clouded some posters’ judgment. Like Baertschi, Goldobin was a talented prospect coming out of his draft year. In most drafts you’re lucky to draft someone as talented as Goldy in the late first round (which is what Hansen could have optimistically fetched). Take Kole Lind. Sure in June 2017 many here probably would have preferred having Kole instead, but in reality he doesn’t project as a 1st line winger either. Or even Yamamoto. Is he projected to be a 1st lime winger? At this point, I don’t think so.

So I am not sure what some here expect. Goldobin is 23 as has shown that he has NHL skill. If he ends up like a Baertchi level player then he’s still a good younger player to have and an asset. If he busts then he busts.

Some Benning haters here are happy with Gaunce but are unhappy with the Baertchi trade or the Goldobin trade. It’s just weird

 

[MadaCanuckle]

He consistently has a positive effect on his line mates. Weird.

Maybe your eyes are not that good?

As good as his predictions.

 

[Intangibos]

Looks like he might be over the slump

Also consistency is so overstated in regards to point production. It's a team game and everyone as a team is going through their ups and downs. You're not going to have all your 40 point guys each taking turns getting points from night to night. One guy might be hot for a while and then another guy might be hot for a while. It all levels out the exact same way it would anyway.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Looking more and more like he’s flipped the switch. With our lack of winger depth it would be great if he can turn out to be part of the core moving forward. His confidence looks really high right now. Needs to keep producing.

 

[Soups On]

Google Translate

Credit to Reddit Canucks for the above article which was posted today.

Baertschi has yet to successfully get back in the training room. He got dizzy after 15 minutes last Saturday. His career and life may be at great risk and that's incredibly sad.

The headshot in Colorado was utter garbage and it wasn't even looked at by the league. Same kinda headshot he got 2(?) years ago.