News Article: Has Matthews Plateaud? by Bruce Arthur -- Mod warning post #127

[rielledup]

Because he consistently brings it? We already had an established expectation for him as well. Pretty obvious why one gets scrutinized and the other doesn't.

Tavares is currently more consistent, less injury prone, having a career year, and cheaper on a longer term. Why would he be held to the same standard?

Why do people continue to ignore how much scoring is up the last two years when talking about career years? Scoring is up around 10% from two years ago, so a 90 pt season is equivalent to an 81 pt season from two seasons ago. The fact that JT is on pace for a career high 90 pts and is still only 16th in points should clue people in to the fact that it's not a meaningful thing to bring up.

 

[WilliamNylander]

I wouldn’t say Matthews has peaked.

I actually think his defensive game has regressed under our coaching staff. In his rookie year he looked like a 2-way force and now he looks lost in the D zone. Same thing happened to Muzzin, and then you see Bozak, JVR improving defensively after leaving. Makes you wonder...

I think an article like this, calling out a player instead of taking a step back and looking at the big picture, is a lazy move.

 

[mclaren55]

Why do people continue to ignore how much scoring is up the last two years when talking about career years? Scoring is up around 10% from two years ago, so a 90 pt season is equivalent to an 81 pt season from two seasons ago. The fact that JT is on pace for a career high 90 pts and is still only 16th in points should clue people in to the fact that it's not a meaningful thing to bring up.

So does that mean Matthews is actually a 60 point centre? What you have brought up is completely irrelevant. Not every player in the NHL is having a career year, however according to you they should, because scoring is up.

 

[Nithoniniel]

So does that mean Matthews is actually a 60 point centre? What you have brought up is completely irrelevant. Not every player in the NHL is having a career year, however according to you they should, because scoring is up.

I'd say that a large reason for the uptick last two years is that there's a bit of a changing of the guard in terms of elite talent. There's a lot of extremely talented players who are just hitting their prime right now.

 

[mclaren55]

I'd say that a large reason for the uptick last two years is that there's a bit of a changing of the guard in terms of elite talent. There's a lot of extremely talented players who are just hitting their prime right now.

I agree, which is why it is an irrelevant argument when in the context of JTs career year.

 

[rielledup]

So does that mean Matthews is actually a 60 point centre? What you have brought up is completely irrelevant. Not every player in the NHL is having a career year, however according to you they should, because scoring is up.

Obviously the fact that scoring is up doesn't guarantee someone is going to have a career year, but a lot of players are having career years and it's easier to put up points this year than it was during most of JT's career.

 

[rielledup]

I agree, which is why it is an irrelevant argument when in the context of JTs career year.

Kane and Wheeler are in their 30's and are on pace to smash career highs, Crosby has had 4 years in a row not breaking 90 and now he's on pace for 110. Ever since they started cracking down on slashing scoring has gone way up.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I wouldn’t say Matthews has peaked.

I actually think his defensive game has regressed under our coaching staff. In his rookie year he looked like a 2-way force and now he looks lost in the D zone. Same thing happened to Muzzin, and then you see Bozak, JVR improving defensively after leaving. Makes you wonder...

I think an article like this, calling out a player instead of taking a step back and looking at the big picture, is a lazy move.

I miss rookie Auston Matthews. He was looking like a dominant superstar then. Was always engaged, stole pucks off everybody. No one could contain him. Now he doesn't look engaged and most of the game I don't even notice him. Only time he turns it up is when he has a scoring chance.

I hope that him getting his money and still putting up points isn't making him complacent. Babcock and Dubas need to light a fire under him and get him back to his rookie self. He keeps giving these post game interviews saying "we need to be better" and "We need to compete the whole game". Well it starts with him. He is the highest paid player on the team and one of the highest in the league. He needs to start leading by example and start walking the walk if he wants to be a captain.

 

[mclaren55]

Kane and Wheeler are in their 30's and are on pace to smash career highs, Crosby has had 4 years in a row not breaking 90 and now he's on pace for 110. Ever since they started cracking down on slashing scoring has gone way up.

So that invalidates their career years? I still don't understand what your point was and why you side stepped my question in my first response to you. If you are going to pro rate JTs season based on a statistical jump in scoring, you have to apply that same logic to everyone. So, based off the jump in scoring (regardless of WHY), do you think that Auston Matthews is at peak a 60 point player? Shouldn't he also be crushing his career numbers? Your narrative is false and a thinly veiled attempt at discrediting a milestone for the best player this team has had since Sundin. Simply because someone asked why he wasn't held to the same standard as Matthews, when in actuality Tavares is setting a standard that Matthews should be hoping to achieve one day.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Terrible thread. How can Matthews have possibly plateaued when he’s taken a step forward every year while dealing with major injuries?

 

[Mess]

Matthews hasn't plateaud, he is missing his spark plug Hyman from his line to jump start the line and win puck battles.

 

[zeke]

PPG: .84 ---> 1.02 ---> 1.13
p60: 2.86 --> 3.36 ---> 3.67
esp60: 2.32 -> 2.97 --> 3.11

this plateau slopes up steeply for some reason.

weirdest plateau ever.

 

[Morbo]

And yet John Tavares somehow doesn't face the same scrutiny around here...

Somehow? By posting a 40 40 season, perhaps?

 

[rielledup]

So that invalidates their career years? I still don't understand what your point was and why you side stepped my question in my first response to you. If you are going to pro rate JTs season based on a statistical jump in scoring, you have to apply that same logic to everyone. So, based off the jump in scoring (regardless of WHY), do you think that Auston Matthews is at peak a 60 point player? Shouldn't he also be crushing his career numbers? Your narrative is false and a thinly veiled attempt at discrediting a milestone for the best player this team has had since Sundin. Simply because someone asked why he wasn't held to the same standard as Matthews, when in actuality Tavares is setting a standard that Matthews should be hoping to achieve one day.

My post had nothing to do with Mathews, but yes him being on pace for 90+ in a full 82 isn't the same as someone doing that two years ago. He's never broken 60 only because of games missed so why do you keep talking about him being at peak a 60 pt player?

Scoring is easier now, lots of people are having career years, JT having a career year doesn't mean he's actually playing his best hockey this year, that's my point.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Battle of the L2s

Go Jets

 

[Morbo]

Matthews hasn't plateaud, he is missing his spark plug Hyman from his line to jump start the line and win puck battles.

See, this would be hilarious if you actually meant it ironically.

 

[IBeL34f]

PPG: .84 ---> 1.02 ---> 1.13
p60: 2.86 --> 3.36 ---> 3.67
esp60: 2.32 -> 2.97 --> 3.11

this plateau slopes up steeply for some reason.

weirdest plateau ever.

This should be stickied as the first post in every page of this wretched thread.

 

[Willy Stylez]

Terrible thread. How can Matthews have possibly plateaued when he’s taken a step forward every year while dealing with major injuries?

+1

 

[Throw More Waffles]

PPG: .84 ---> 1.02 ---> 1.13
p60: 2.86 --> 3.36 ---> 3.67
esp60: 2.32 -> 2.97 --> 3.11

this plateau slopes up steeply for some reason.

weirdest plateau ever.

This post is bonkers.

The article is questioning if Matthews plateaued this season, after growing during season 1 and 2. So what do those numbers above have to do with anything?

It’s VERY common for super star 1st overall type players to plateau by the end of their elc. Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin all had their career highs in points during their elc’s. So it’s not far fetched in the slightest to suggest it could be the case for Matthews as well.

I think a lot of people here have problems with the term “plateau”. It’s different than “peak”. It’s not suggesting it’s all downhill from here. It’s saying this point/goal pace is about as good as he’ll get, but it could last another ten years.

It also doesnt mean that this will HANDS DOWN be his best season. When a player plateaus, it means they’ll have some ups and downs from here out, but will average out at around his current pace.

I’d argue that even Patrick Kane plateaued during his final elc year. Sure he’s had some better seasons since then (106 points), but he’s also had some stinkers, like 66 and 76 points over 82. It balances out to his plateau of 90 points during his final elc season.

 

[mclaren55]

My post had nothing to do with Mathews, but yes him being on pace for 90+ in a full 82 isn't the same as someone doing that two years ago. He's never broken 60 only because of games missed so why do you keep talking about him being at peak a 60 pt player?

Scoring is easier now, lots of people are having career years, JT having a career year doesn't mean he's actually playing his best hockey this year, that's my point.

Right, so since scoring is so much easier now, should we all be stating how brutal Crosby, McDavid, Bergeron, etc., have been since they AREN'T having career years? You can't have it both ways. You can't minimize JTs year without applying the same logic to everyone else. I feel as though we are talking past each other at this point though.

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Matthews hasn't even had a chance to play with an all star winger. Nylander is the closest but they have spent 2 games together. So how has he plateaued if we haven't even got him the ideal line mates yet?

We have a good thing going for us that has just broke the surface!

 

[zeke]

This post is bonkers.

The article is questioning if Matthews plateaued this season, after growing during season 1 and 2. So what do those numbers above have to do with anything?

if you look closely at my post, you'll see that I include not one, not two, but THREE years of data.

 

[Martin Skoula]

This post is bonkers.

The article is questioning if Matthews plateaued this season, after growing during season 1 and 2. So what do those numbers above have to do with anything?

It’s VERY common for super star 1st overall type players to plateau by the end of their elc. Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin all had their career highs in points during their elc’s. So it’s not far fetched in the slightest to suggest it could be the case for Matthews as well.

I think a lot of people here have problems with the term “plateau”. It’s different than “peak”. It’s not suggesting it’s all downhill from here. It’s saying this point/goal pace is about as good as he’ll get, but it could last another ten years.

It also doesnt mean that this will HANDS DOWN be his best season. When a player plateaus, it means they’ll have some ups and downs from here out, but will average out at around his current pace.

I’d argue that even Patrick Kane plateaued during his final elc year. Sure he’s had some better seasons since then (106 points), but he’s also had some stinkers, like 66 and 76 points over 82. It balances out to his plateau of 90 points during his final elc season.

What a coincidence that they all had their peak years during the highest scoring period post-lockout. It's almost like getting 7 minutes of PP time a game is good for your point totals.

Ovechkin is the only one I see the argument for because his game was a lot less rounded and relied on physical explosiveness those early years.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

if you look closely at my post, you'll see that I include not one, not two, but THREE years of data.

The article is not claiming that Matthews plateaued during seasons 1 or 2... so what do those numbers have to do with anything? The article is claiming that maybe THIS will be the season he plateaus.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

What a coincidence that they all had their peak years during the highest scoring period post-lockout. It's almost like getting 7 minutes of PP time a game is good for your point totals.

Ovechkin is the only one I see the argument for because his game was a lot less rounded and relied on physical explosiveness those early years.

So Crosby hadn’t even plateaued yet, during his 120 point season.

Can’t make this stuff up...