News Article: Has Matthews Plateaud? by Bruce Arthur -- Mod warning post #127

[Martin Skoula]

So Crosby hadn’t even plateaued yet, during his 120 point season.

Can’t make this stuff up...

Considering he had 5 seasons with better even strength totals (not including paces during his injured seasons), yeah I'd say so. Give Crosby 7 minutes of PP time any season between 2010 and today and he breaks 120 points.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Considering he had 5 seasons with better even strength totals (not including paces during his injured seasons), yeah I'd say so. Give Crosby 7 minutes of PP time any season between 2010 and today and he breaks 120 points.

And he also had 9 seasons since then (his career high in points) with a lower ppg pace. His AVERAGE ppg pace has been lower than his ppg pace his sophomore season.
Again... I think a lot of people here don’t understand the term “plateaued”.

 

[zeke]

The article is not claiming that Matthews plateaued during seasons 1 or 2... so what do those numbers have to do with anything? The article is claiming that maybe THIS will be the season he plateaus.

do you know what "plateaued" means?

 

[Martin Skoula]

And he also had 9 seasons since then (his career high in points) with a lower ppg pace. His AVERAGE ppg pace has been lower than his ppg pace his sophomore season.
Again... I think a lot of people here don’t understand the term “plateaued”.

No I just don't see the point of talking about his PPG totals without context applied. 7 minutes of PP time is not something that's in his control, it is impossible for him to get that many PP points anymore. His offensive production has improved at even strength since his sophomore year, and I'd wager that his PP efficiency (points per hour of PP time) has improved as well.

The only difference is that we don't see games with 10-15 powerplay anymore.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

do you know what "plateaued" means?

Yes, but I’m not sure you do. The article is questioning if THIS season is about as good as Matthews will get (not last season or his rookie season). He’s on pace for 90-95 points over 82, so it’s not that bad of a place to plateau at.

If he really has plateaued this year, then of course he has better numbers than his first two seasons. Why would you show those stats? What do they have to do with anything?

 

[zeke]

Yes, but I’m not sure you do. The article is questioning if THIS season is about as good as Matthews will get (not last season or his rookie season). He’s on pace for 90-95 points over 82, so it’s not that bad of a place to plateau at.

If he really has plateaued this year, then of course he has better numbers than his first two seasons. Why would you show those stats? What do they have to do with anything?

So the article is saying that he might plateau going forward.

because he certainly hasn't plateaued so far.

 

[Drew311]

I just want to see the Matthews we watched in the first 15 games of the season. Maybe that's unrealistic because teams are playing loose at the start of the season, or maybe he's been dealing with a bum shoulder since coming back from injury. I haven't seen him wire a puck top cheese in a while. I just have a feeling he's not physically capable right now.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

So the article is saying that he might plateau going forward.

because he certainly hasn't plateaued so far.

Yes, that’s right. You’re starting to get it.

The article is asking if what we’re seeing this season is Matthews plateau. It’s not even stating an opinion. It’s asking a question. And it’s not an unfair question, being that it’s not uncommon with other 1st overall elite players like Crosby, Malkin, and Ovechkin.

But citing season 1 and 2 shows you don’t even understand what the authors point was.

 

[zeke]

Yes, that’s right. You’re starting to get it.

The article is asking if what we’re seeing this season is Matthews plateau. It’s not even stating an opinion. It’s asking a question. And it’s not an unfair question, being that it’s not uncommon with other 1st overall elite players like Crosby, Malkin, and Ovechkin.

But citing season 1 and 2 shows you don’t even understand what the authors point was.

so it's a baseless article which ignores that Matthews has not in any way plateaued yet and ignores aging curves.

good article.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

so it's a baseless article which ignores that Matthews has not in any way plateaued yet and ignores aging curves.

good article.

You can disagree with the article all you want... but showing his year 1 and 2 numbers as though it meant something... well, that shows that you either didn’t read the article, or you didn’t understand it.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I just want to see the Matthews we watched in the first 15 games of the season. Maybe that's unrealistic because teams are playing loose at the start of the season, or maybe he's been dealing with a bum shoulder since coming back from injury. I haven't seen him wire a puck top cheese in a while. I just have a feeling he's not physically capable right now.

I worry about this too. I wonder if he has a nagging back or shoulder injury

 

[zeke]

You can disagree with the article all you want... but showing his year 1 and 2 numbers as though it meant something... well, that shows that you either didn’t read the article, or you didn’t understand it.

showing his progression so far in his career is a better answer to the question "has he plateaued" than anything in that article.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

showing his progression so far in his career is a better answer to the question "has he plateaued" than anything in that article.

But the article fully agrees that he progressed those years...
So you posted numbers that the article agrees with as some sort of way to disprove the article. Seems like a strange tactic if you ask me...

 

[Morbo]

what seems strange is asking the question now.

the time to ask that is the first time we see production basically exactly like the previous year's.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I just want to see the Matthews we watched in the first 15 games of the season. Maybe that's unrealistic because teams are playing loose at the start of the season, or maybe he's been dealing with a bum shoulder since coming back from injury. I haven't seen him wire a puck top cheese in a while. I just have a feeling he's not physically capable right now.

he's probably better now than at the start of the year. he was just riding insanely high oish%. But yeah, he's not sniping as much

 

[Stephen]

I just want to see the Matthews we watched in the first 15 games of the season. Maybe that's unrealistic because teams are playing loose at the start of the season, or maybe he's been dealing with a bum shoulder since coming back from injury. I haven't seen him wire a puck top cheese in a while. I just have a feeling he's not physically capable right now.

Matthews early season play reminds me of the all-world starts Phil Kessel used to have in October and November.

Eary in the season, it's consistently easier to produce offense at a certain work rate. Show up, turn it up and score. Later in the season the competition amps up and if you want to keep producing you have to keep going at it hard. Marner, Rielly and Tavares are doing a great job at that. Sometimes Matthews brings it, and sometimes he doesn't. Looking around the league, Sidney Crosby looks like Zach Hyman on every shift combined with elite skills.

 

[Trapper]

The talent is there to keep rising.
Is the drive train?
Remains to be seen.

 

[Stephen]

The talent is there to keep rising.
Is the drive train?
Remains to be seen.

Kind of weird that when he was drafted he was advertised as an elite drive train player with a great two way game band not that spectacular but evolved into a spectacular player with an okay two way game and the classic big man syndrome of appearing to not always bring it.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Matthews early season play reminds me of the all-world starts Phil Kessel used to have in October and November.

Eary in the season, it's consistently easier to produce offense at a certain work rate. Show up, turn it up and score. Later in the season the competition amps up and if you want to keep producing you have to keep going at it hard. Marner, Rielly and Tavares are doing a great job at that. Sometimes Matthews brings it, and sometimes he doesn't. Looking around the league, Sidney Crosby looks like Zach Hyman on every shift combined with elite skills.

Matthews is 3 points behind Tavares since December 1st, and he doesn't play with a winger like Marner. Weird how the gap is so close considering he's not even trying half the time

 

[cannucky]

Matthews is 3 points behind Tavares since December 1st, and he doesn't play with a winger like Marner. Weird how the gap is so close considering he's not even trying half the time

Not really whats his lines production totals compared to the first line ? He's supposed to be better than Marner , he's had almost every forward on the team for a winger but his line doesn't produce totals even close to Marner /JT/Hymen , weird is how he supposedly said he didn't want Hymen on his wing this year but Hymens having the best year of his career without Mathews-weird eh !

 

[Loosie]

Season 1: 40G 29A 69P 82GMs
Season 2: 34G 29A 63P 62GMs (6 less goals scored...20 less games played)
Season 3: 34G 31A 65P 57GMs (11 games to go)

But he's 'plateaued'

 

[WillNy29]

This post is bonkers.

The article is questioning if Matthews plateaued this season, after growing during season 1 and 2. So what do those numbers above have to do with anything?

It’s VERY common for super star 1st overall type players to plateau by the end of their elc. Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin all had their career highs in points during their elc’s. So it’s not far fetched in the slightest to suggest it could be the case for Matthews as well.

I think a lot of people here have problems with the term “plateau”. It’s different than “peak”. It’s not suggesting it’s all downhill from here. It’s saying this point/goal pace is about as good as he’ll get, but it could last another ten years.

It also doesnt mean that this will HANDS DOWN be his best season. When a player plateaus, it means they’ll have some ups and downs from here out, but will average out at around his current pace.

I’d argue that even Patrick Kane plateaued during his final elc year. Sure he’s had some better seasons since then (106 points), but he’s also had some stinkers, like 66 and 76 points over 82. It balances out to his plateau of 90 points during his final elc season.

I got a piece of beachfront land to sell you in winnipeg if you honestly believe this is the intent of the article, Bruce Arthur couldnt help himself his trigger finger has been itching for 3 years to right something inflammatory about the leafs

 

[Nineteen67]

He’s not the all round player we hoped he’d be. At least not yet.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Season 1: 40G 29A 69P 82GMs
Season 2: 34G 29A 63P 62GMs (6 less goals scored...20 less games played)
Season 3: 34G 31A 65P 57GMs (11 games to go)

But he's 'plateaued'

Could still finish top 10 in goals despite missing 14 games lol

Matthews has always been streaky, writers need to be careful when they write stuff like this. A week later they can look really stupid.

 

[Gallagbi]

Could still finish top 10 in goals despite missing 14 games lol

Matthews has always been streaky, writers need to be careful when they write stuff like this. A week later they can look really stupid.

Maybe the strakiness is the exact type of issue they're thinking of him needing to improve.