Has Bergevin made us a better team so far this summer? Part 3

[The Real Timo]

Here's the evolution of this team since the beginning of last season:

G:
Niemi - - > Kinkaid
#2-3 LD:
Benn - - > Chiarot
Reilly - - > Kulak
#4C:
Peca - - > Chaput - -> Thompson - - > Poehling
#4RW:
Hudon - - > Weise - - > Weal
#4LW:
Deslauriers - - > Cousins
#2RW:
Shaw - - > increased role for one of Byron/Lehkonen

That is just sad. With exception of Poehling, who I don't think belongs on the 4th line and yet to prove anything beyond that one game last year... this just looks sad. Not beucase that guys on the left were any good... but because the guys on the right aren't any better.

 

[Runner77]

Take me in, under Karl's wing, bury me deep in Laval.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Here's the evolution of this team since the beginning of last season:

G:
Niemi - - > Kinkaid
#2-3 LD:
Benn - - > Chiarot
Reilly - - > Kulak
#4C:
Peca - - > Chaput - -> Thompson - - > Poehling
#4RW:
Hudon - - > Weise - - > Weal
#4LW:
Deslauriers - - > Cousins
#2RW:
Shaw - - > increased role for one of Byron/Lehkonen

hah, this is classic Bergevin, a long list of no-names being replaced by no-names :')

 

[DAChampion]

hah, this is classic Bergevin, a long list of no-names being replaced by no-names :')

But don't most teams in the league have significant fluxes of journeymen?

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

But don't most teams in the league have significant fluxes of journeymen?

hah, maybe. but are they also rich teams with tons of cap space but no big signings? playing in a single-team, single-sport market with huge expectations?

 

[Whitesnake]

Whatever changes that happened does not have enough difference than not replacing Shaw does. Even if you agree that Kinkaid, Cousins and so on are an upgrade...never as big as losing Shaw. We did not improve as a whole. Add the fact that teams before us didn't lose a whole lot for most of them, and teams behind us kinda gained more for some of them, we did not improve, but we regressed becuase of it. Oh and just before somebody brings again our youth that will improve, note that most teams have the same kind of youth that will improve too.

 

[Archijerej]

hah, this is classic Bergevin, a long list of no-names being replaced by no-names :')

You realise there are 23 players on every NHL roster?

 

[DAChampion]

Whatever changes that happened does not have enough difference than not replacing Shaw does. Even if you agree that Kinkaid, Cousins and so on are an upgrade...never as big as losing Shaw. We did not improve as a whole. Add the fact that teams before us didn't lose a whole lot for most of them, and teams behind us kinda gained more for some of them, we did not improve, but we regressed becuase of it. Oh and just before somebody brings again our youth that will improve, note that most teams have the same kind of youth that will improve too.

The Habs youth may improve, but their old guys (Price, Weber, Petry) are in their declining years.

 

[Whitesnake]

You realise there are 23 players on every NHL roster?

I think his point was that when you want to seriously improve, it's not by changing the bottom players that you will do so.

 

[Archijerej]

Whatever changes that happened does not have enough difference than not replacing Shaw does.

That remains to be seen. Being able to roll 4 lines can have a significant impact on Habs performance, especially considering our style of play.

Oh and just before somebody brings again our youth that will improve, note that most teams have the same kind of youth that will improve

That's not really true. If I'm not mistaken, we were the youngest team in the NHL last season. Our potential for internal growth is much better than several teams that finished ahead of us.

 

[Archijerej]

I think his point was that when you want to seriously improve, it's not by changing the bottom players that you will do so.

I realize that. However, the goal was not to improve SIGNIFICANTLY, unless it could be done in an opportunistic way in terms of price in young assets, (hence a bid for "free" options like Duchene and Aho) , or unless it could be done in the form of bringing in an impact player who would simultaneously fit age wise with our future core. Since such opportunity has not yet presented itself, the goal must remain to accumulate draft picks (Shaw trade), while trying to improve a 96 points roster by rebuilding the bottom of the lineup. For example, there's no use trading for a guy like Leddy at the cost of giving up significant assets in picks and/or prospects.

 

[Tyson]

Hard to believe that the GM did so little to improve this team this off season. 8th year, no accountability.


A sound strategy to extend Price 8 years, trade for an older Weber and then not surrounding them with a roster of players that can get you into the playoffs.

Now that they traded Shaw you have to ask yourself what was the point?

 

[the]

Just give him more time guys...

 

[The Real Timo]

Just give him more time guys...

Totally. He is still young and will only improve with time. (wait... who are we talking about?)

 

[ECWHSWI]

That remains to be seen. Being able to roll 4 lines can have a significant impact on Habs performance, especially considering our style of play.



That's not really true. If I'm not mistaken, we were the youngest team in the NHL last season. Our potential for internal growth is much better than several teams that finished ahead of us.

that's a very, very simple way of "analyzing" things, and I'm being generous by using "analyzing".

 

[The Real Timo]

Here... don't say Bergevin never does anything for you

Canadiens have a diamond in the rough in Riley Barber

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I guess we know that whoever's hand BErgevin shakes in that tournament is a gonner

View attachment 248951

can he shake his own hand?

 

[badi]

8 more years and all will be ok ,,,,
RELaxxxx

 

[Runner77]

Here... don't say Bergevin never does anything for you

Canadiens have a diamond in the rough in Riley Barber

Nice piece. Finally, someone who uses the diamond in the rough expression, correctly.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Runner77]

can he shake his own hand?

He’s far too muscle-bound for that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Whatever changes that happened does not have enough difference than not replacing Shaw does. Even if you agree that Kinkaid, Cousins and so on are an upgrade...never as big as losing Shaw. We did not improve as a whole. Add the fact that teams before us didn't lose a whole lot for most of them, and teams behind us kinda gained more for some of them, we did not improve, but we regressed becuase of it. Oh and just before somebody brings again our youth that will improve, note that most teams have the same kind of youth that will improve too.

There are not many teams with youth like us that is trending well combined with the vets we have.

You have to trust in the kids growing but we have to monitor it. Our team strength is in numbers and competition for ice time

Hard to say how much growth we will get but there is a possibility this team is better than last year for sure

 

[Miller Time]

There are not many teams with youth like us that is trending well combined with the vets we have.

You have to trust in the kids growing but we have to monitor it. Our team strength is in numbers and competition for ice time

Hard to say how much growth we will get but there is a possibility this team is better than last year for sure

there is "possibility" for every single team in the league to be better than last year... the point that seems to get lost is that our "possibility" for improvement hinges exclusively on aspects that every other team can look to, internal growth/progression.

Many other teams improved their "possibility" of being better by actually upgrading parts of the NHL roster, which we did not.

While our overall prospect pool is relatively strong, from the perspective of the 2019-20 season, I'd bet that we are middle-of-the-pack or worse as far as expected impact from new young talent (ie players who were not regulars last year).

Realistically, Poehling is the only prosect we have with a good shot at being a regular contributor.
Suzuki, Brook, Fleury, Evans, et. are unlikely to be anything more than call-up or depth contributions this year.
Caufield, Romanov, Ylonen, Primeau et. are all several seasons away from being NHL contributors.

Mete, Juulsen & JKO could & should improve, but none of them seem poised for a significant breakout as soon as this year.
Domi, Drouin had career best (or tying) seasons last year, both could continue to progress though stagnation is just as likely imo.
Leaves us looking to guys like Armia, Lehkonen or Kulak...

all in all, expecting the growth of the "kids" to drive the "possibility" of the team being better is wishful thinking at best. That improvement would have to be significant enough to offset a regression to the mean in injury effect and career progression after we got so lucky with those two factors last year.

Domi, Drouin, JKO, Lehkonen, Armia, Poehling.
Mete, Juulsen, Kulak.
(with only Tatar, Gallagher, Weber & Petry as legit top-6/top-4 veteran talent).

there are at least a dozen teams with as many or more under -25 players poised to improve their contributions, and a dozen more with significantly better veteran talent to rely on.

We are, as of today, once again, firmly in the bottom 1/2 of the league depth chart... Not any further ahead than we were this time last year heading into the season unless we take it as a given that the numerous PB's set last year will repeat themselves... more likely, we'll actually regress somewhat given that we lost our most productive winger and did not add any top6/top4 caliber talent. Normal injury impact or normal regression enough to plant us firmly in the lottery pool.

Sorry, but hard to see forecasting improvement of our roster as anything but thick homer lenses or wishful hoping for another year where just about everything goes right for us... which if it does, gets us yet another crack at being the best non-playoff team, or a PO team with a roster wholly unequipped to succeed in the post season... lucky us...

 

[Bring Bak Damphousse]

If he wasn't fired for that disastrous 2017-18 season and not only that, he was rewarded with the responsibility of replacing deadwood he had himself appointed to management -- and managed to miss the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years unscathed -- then, nothing will get him fired.

Yes, the fantastic off-season his supporters rave about that boiled down to him finally firing Lefebvre and JJ something any habs fan with an ounce of sense would have done years ago.

 

[Runner77]

Yes, the fantastic off-season his supporters rave about that boiled down to him finally firing Lefebvre and JJ something any habs fan with an ounce of sense would have done years ago.

Should have never hired them to begin with.

 

[Tyson]

there is "possibility" for every single team in the league to be better than last year... the point that seems to get lost is that our "possibility" for improvement hinges exclusively on aspects that every other team can look to, internal growth/progression.

Many other teams improved their "possibility" of being better by actually upgrading parts of the NHL roster, which we did not.

While our overall prospect pool is relatively strong, from the perspective of the 2019-20 season, I'd bet that we are middle-of-the-pack or worse as far as expected impact from new young talent (ie players who were not regulars last year).

Realistically, Poehling is the only prosect we have with a good shot at being a regular contributor.
Suzuki, Brook, Fleury, Evans, et. are unlikely to be anything more than call-up or depth contributions this year.
Caufield, Romanov, Ylonen, Primeau et. are all several seasons away from being NHL contributors.

Mete, Juulsen & JKO could & should improve, but none of them seem poised for a significant breakout as soon as this year.
Domi, Drouin had career best (or tying) seasons last year, both could continue to progress though stagnation is just as likely imo.
Leaves us looking to guys like Armia, Lehkonen or Kulak...

all in all, expecting the growth of the "kids" to drive the "possibility" of the team being better is wishful thinking at best. That improvement would have to be significant enough to offset a regression to the mean in injury effect and career progression after we got so lucky with those two factors last year.

Domi, Drouin, JKO, Lehkonen, Armia, Poehling.
Mete, Juulsen, Kulak.
(with only Tatar, Gallagher, Weber & Petry as legit top-6/top-4 veteran talent).

there are at least a dozen teams with as many or more under -25 players poised to improve their contributions, and a dozen more with significantly better veteran talent to rely on.

We are, as of today, once again, firmly in the bottom 1/2 of the league depth chart... Not any further ahead than we were this time last year heading into the season unless we take it as a given that the numerous PB's set last year will repeat themselves... more likely, we'll actually regress somewhat given that we lost our most productive winger and did not add any top6/top4 caliber talent. Normal injury impact or normal regression enough to plant us firmly in the lottery pool.

Sorry, but hard to see forecasting improvement of our roster as anything but thick homer lenses or wishful hoping for another year where just about everything goes right for us... which if it does, gets us yet another crack at being the best non-playoff team, or a PO team with a roster wholly unequipped to succeed in the post season... lucky us...

And to make matters worse Price and Weber are a year older