Has Babcock Been Set Up To Fail?

[ShaneFalco]

Cox:

"This is not the work of a GM trying to fix problems. It’s the work of a GM juggling cap considerations."

I can get with this. This is not a wild comment. How else do you explain why Petan is still playing?

A depth cheap 4th line player?

 

[MoreMogilny]

If it is Dubas's job to provide a 100% guaranteed complete winning team, then what the hell do we need Babcock for?

Every part of the team should be accountable for success in a different way.

Dubas has assembled the roster, and Babcock is the one that needs to make it go, no matter who the individuals are. Of course the players themselves are responsible for how they play, but we need to ask if they are in the right position to succeed?


At one point or another, if the same systems we’ve been employing aren’t working, do you do something about the coaching? We’ve committed to this core, and changing it simply isn’t going to happen with the contract structure.

Babcock has coached this team to three straight playoff appearances, but also no success against our opponents. You can say that all 3 times we were the lower seed, but we all know the reasons why things came undone.

If we fast forward a month from now and this team is middling, I would be very concerned with continuing down this road.

 

[Stamkos4life]

No team has won a cup that has even 1 player making 10+ mil. We have 3 at 10.5+ mil.

I'd say babcock has been set up to fail by dubas.

Hopefully this is just the early season blues but I said during the summer this team could miss the playoffs and it certainly looks that way right now.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

No team has won a cup that has even 1 player making 10+ mil. We have 3 at 10.5+ mil.

I'd say babcock has been set up to fail by dubas.

Hopefully this is just the early season blues but I said during the summer this team could miss the playoffs and it certainly looks that way right now.

I don't think you understand how cap inflation works

 

[Stamkos4life]

I don't think you understand how cap inflation works

If there is anyone who doesnt understand cap inflation its dubas.

How do you explain being the only gm to have 2 players in the top 10 highest paid and yet not be on 8 year deals?

Marner and Matthew's are severely overpaid to the point it is detrimental to the team.

I doubt we'll see a team with a 10+ mil player win the cup for at least another 2 years. Then add a couple more years before a team wins with 3 of them. By then Auston's contract is up. Just a mess dubas has made.

 

[MarnerElite]

It is far too early to judge what this team really is but this article by Damien Cox certainly raises an interesting question. It can't be intentional but the premise that they are a very flawed group is strong at the moment.
Damien Cox: Mike Babcock may be set up for a fall after Kyle Dubas’ uninspiring summer

Will they win a round or even 2 with this group? Very possible. Will they win it all? I'd bet good money that they won't no matter what coach they have.. If it was only about skill then Tampa should have won for the past 2-3 years(oh but their coach sucks too..problem is you can play that game forever basically). That's not the issue and even Babcock's biggest critics know that(when you see Penguins, Kings, Hawks and their success in recent years, some of these teams had very little in terms of great depth we have(especially on top 2 lines)..yet their best players were extremely good at everything(in LA aside from Kopitar and Doughty i have a hard time remembering another elite level player at that time when they won..there was Carter, Gaborik who were nearing the end of their prime but it was really not those guys who made a huge difference..they had Matt Frattin on their team ffs)..that's why it's really on JT, Matthews, Nylander, Rielly and Marner to lift the team and not the rest of the guys to make them look good..like it was last night where our best players were 3rd and 4th liners).

One of the biggest examples i saw of a team going downhill due to change in roster makeup was Chicago when Ladd, Buff and few other players were gone. Heck, even though Buff is now much older you can even see the difference in Winnipeg when he isn't back there(opponents are afraid and very hesitant going up against a guy that big, strong, etc). But anyways, it is always good comedy on here..It'll be even funnier coming back a year or two from now when these same people want another coaching change when the new guy comes in fairly soon(probably) and can't make much difference.

 

[thewave]

Poor Mike. Never given the right tools to build his team and lacks the ability to adapt

Mike is a piece of work but the Dubas team is soft. I mean, you have a GM going one way and a Coach pulling the other. What are we to expect? They did this same damn thing with Wilson and Burke, it's so dumb, the team is run by idiots and has been since Stavro sold his shares.

Stavro Leafs: 1992-2003 How many conference finals? 4? Sure we didn't win but we were a damn fun competitive team to watch. " In 2006, Stavro died in his home at age 78 after a heart attack. He was buried at Mount Pleasant Cemetery where he had built a tomb adorned with icons of many of his achievements including the Toronto Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors, Order of Canada, Knights of Malta, Order of the Masons and an equestrian statue of Alexander the Great. " -Wiki

Good man.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

If anything the Leafs have been set up to fail by not unseating Babs

 

[Tak7]

He's been given some of the best young attacking talent in the league.

He has one of the best top 6s in the NHL.

He has 2 elite puck moving Dmen, and a star goaltender.

If that's "Babcock being setup to fail", he doesn't deserve to be in this league

 

[TheProspector]

looool

It's OK, guys. This is a dominant group that has experienced some godawful goaltending, and still managed to be 3-2-1.

Leafs were mostly dominant against both STL and TB. It's okay. Sometimes the bounces don't work out, particularly over a short sampe size.

 

[MarnerElite]

Babcock does lie though and i don't like that. He said that our defensive issues are overblown and they are due to not trying hard enough but i see extremely bad decisions being made by some of our top dmen(Rielly, Ceci, Muzzin). Taking too long to get rid of the puck, putting the puck in areas where it shouldn't go, etc..those have nothing to do with not trying hard enough. They are mental mistakes that Hainsey made on a very rare occasion(i don't like his skating but man he was so solid back there in terms of making the right play and positional play).

 

[Myopic]

I think both Babcock and Dubas should share the blame.

Dubas has assembled a soft, skilled team with a terrible defense and sub-par backup goaltending. You can't win with skilled offensive d-men who are terrible defensively. Mortgaging the future for one year of Barrie was a disaster. He isn't good enough defensively to play against the top lines. He also isn't worth the $8Mx6 he'll likely demand next year.

Babcock seems to be out-coached every other game. He rarely mixes things up with the lines when the team is reeling. Why haven't we seen Matthews/Marner yet? That's F'n ridiculous. The #1 PP should play near the full 2 minutes unless you have an icing (clearing) with 20 seconds to go. Matthews should be playing 26 minutes a game.

 

[The Podium]

I lost respect for Babcock when he threw Dubas under the bus last year for a lack of depth. Depth wouldn’t be an issue if your stars are played proper minutes, but irrespective of that Dubas addresses depth and D. Babcock has no reason to complain and is in a better position than 90% of the league. If he can’t make it work with this roster, than he can’t make it work with anything short of an Olympic roster which was already a concern before his hire here.

I for one would be pumped to see Babs gone. Look how well Bruins adapted to a innovative new school coach after Julien was gone.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

He had a roster with a good mix of skill and grit that was on the rise. The GM hes removed almost every veteran and toughness or sandpaper from the team. Now people are shocked they look like they have no heart.

The coach can't teach a player to have enough will and respect for himself to battle for loose pucks. The players just need to have that. Early on it looks like any remnants of that type of play is gone from this team. That's why we appear to be in a decline.

This roster is full of veteran players.

Tavares 10th year veteran
Rielly 7th year veteran
Barrie 8th year veteran
Matthews 4th year veteran
Marner 4th year veteran
Nylander 4th year veteran
Muzzin 7th year veteran
Spezza 17th year veteran
Ceci 6th year veteran
Andersen 6th year veteran

If you are not a rookie then you are a veteran.

 

[Menzinger]

The team literally has better depth at every position other than goaltending compared to the season prior.

What exactly have the Leafs contracts prevented the Leafs from doing? Maybe in future it will prove to be a hindrance but the idea that Babcock gets a free pass because of Matthew's salary is dumb

 

[Zybalto]

One of the better teams in the league for almost three years now let down in the playoffs chiefly by goaltending and always playing a powerhouse opponant?

The incessant whining about Babcock has reached comical levels now and I'm not shocked that the same people who go after him for player icetime or 4th line minutes completely fail to give him credit when it's the right move...which it is more often than many admit.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

No team has won a cup that has even 1 player making 10+ mil. We have 3 at 10.5+ mil.

I'd say babcock has been set up to fail by dubas.

Hopefully this is just the early season blues but I said during the summer this team could miss the playoffs and it certainly looks that way right now.

If Babcock has been set up to fail, I bet most other coaches wish their GMs were so mean.

 

[Faltorvo]

He's been given some of the best young attacking talent in the league.

He has one of the best top 6s in the NHL.

He has 2 elite puck moving Dmen, and a star goaltender.

If that's "Babcock being setup to fail", he doesn't deserve to be in this league

when most of those 8 players you listed can't handle the game when they are not on offence, then ya

set up to fail

 

[Faltorvo]

I lost respect for Babcock when he threw Dubas under the bus last year for a lack of depth. Depth wouldn’t be an issue if your stars are played proper minutes, but irrespective of that Dubas addresses depth and D. Babcock has no reason to complain and is in a better position than 90% of the league. If he can’t make it work with this roster, than he can’t make it work with anything short of an Olympic roster which was already a concern before his hire here.

I for one would be pumped to see Babs gone. Look how well Bruins adapted to a innovative new school coach after Julien was gone.

babcock does not have the elite 2 way players at the top of the roster like boston has.

leafs do not have the depth players that play sacrifice hockey like the Bs have

our botton 6 play like they want to be top 6 players. Where skill is considered enough.

 

[Faltorvo]

If Babcock has been set up to fail, I bet most other coaches wish their GMs were so mean.

well , i took it as fail = not winning the cup.

i don't see a cup temperament on this roster

 

[Nylander88]

Being a brand new Dad can be quite a transition. It is a profound physical and emotional transition. Tavares’ll be fine.

Yeah I don't think he became a bad player overnight or anything. Just saying so far he looks like he's skating in mud. Dad reasons or not doesn't change that assessment lol

 

[Maplebeasts]

If being gifted three top pairing defencemen and a top 2-3 forward line-up in the league means you're set up to fail than sure. LMFAO

 

[The Podium]

babcock does not have the elite 2 way players at the top of the roster like boston has.

leafs do not have the depth players that play sacrifice hockey like the Bs have

our botton 6 play like they want to be top 6 players. Where skill is considered enough.

You don't need elite two-way players, you need to maximize your players strength. Yes we do not have a Patrice Bergeorn, but we have Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, William Nylander and John Tavares who can be among the best possession players in the league if utilized properly.

I dont know what games you have been watching but our bottom 6 players have been dominant through 6 games now.

Babcock's problem is, and has always been, the inability to make in game adjustments and trying to force square pegs into a round hole in every spot of his roster. He should be able to recognize what he has and play to their strength, rather than neuter their strengths by trying to force players into his idea of an ideal player.

 

[Menzinger]

The funny thing about Bergeron is that hes probably the most unique player in the NHl based.on his two way play ability. Peak Toews is probably the only other guy who comes close to being similar.

So I'm not sure why we should expect the Leafs to need to have such a rare player skillset to succeed

 

[The Podium]

The funny thing about Bergeron is that hes probably the most unique player in the NHl based.on his two way play ability. Peak Toews is probably the only other guy who comes close to being similar.

So I'm not sure why we should expect the Leafs to need to have such a rare player skillset to succeed

Exactly, you can't fault Dubas for not getting a Bergeron. There is only a handful of players in the history of the game that play like him, or Marchand for that matter.