Has Babcock Been Set Up To Fail?

[Faltorvo]

It is far too early to judge what this team really is but this article by Damien Cox certainly raises an interesting question. It can't be intentional but the premise that they are a very flawed group is strong at the moment.
Damien Cox: Mike Babcock may be set up for a fall after Kyle Dubas’ uninspiring summer

what do you consider "fail"?????????????

i mean

4 seasons ago he coached us to 30th place in the league and i considered that one of the greatest coaching jobs i have ever seen here.

 

[Faltorvo]

You don't need elite two-way players, you need to maximize your players strength. Yes we do not have a Patrice Bergeorn, but we have Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, William Nylander and John Tavares who can be among the best possession players in the league if utilized properly.

I dont know what games you have been watching but our bottom 6 players have been dominant through 6 games now.

Babcock's problem is, and has always been, the inability to make in game adjustments and trying to force square pegs into a round hole in every spot of his roster. He should be able to recognize what he has and play to their strength, rather than neuter their strengths by trying to force players into his idea of an ideal player.

pretty hard to do when the gm gives you nothing but square pegs.

 

[The Podium]

pretty hard to do when the gm gives you nothing but square pegs.

4 first line forwards, depth role players that can contribute offensively, 3 top pairing D and a top 10 G in the league?

What else exactly would you expect?

This, on paper, is a top 5 roster in the league. If Babcock cant work with that then there is nothing else that can be done really.

If you want to blame player attitude, then you have to remember that is the coaches responsibility to mentor.

 

[All Mod Cons]

4 first line forwards, depth role players that can contribute offensively, 3 top pairing D and a top 10 G in the league?

What else exactly would you expect?

This, on paper, is a top 5 roster in the league. If Babcock cant work with that then there is nothing else that can be done really.

If you want to blame player attitude, then you have to remember that is the coaches responsibility to mentor.

Who are the 3 top pairing D?

 

[Menzinger]

Who are the 3 top pairing D?

Barrie and Rielly are clear cut at that level -and most metrics have Muzzin being closer to a good #2 than second pairing quality guy

 

[Faltorvo]

4 first line forwards, depth role players that can contribute offensively, 3 top pairing D and a top 10 G in the league?

What else exactly would you expect?

This, on paper, is a top 5 roster in the league. If Babcock cant work with that then there is nothing else that can be done really.

If you want to blame player attitude, then you have to remember that is the coaches responsibility to mentor.

it really sounds like you are just like many of our top players and only focusing on one aspect of the game , the "sexy aspect , offence"

i can't run out of fingers on one hand when i try to count the players that excel at the other aspects of the game, like IDK defencive play and other things.

 

[Jozay]

Look at the roster and tell me how Babcock is being set up to fail

Lol

 

[Faltorvo]

Look at the roster and tell me how Babcock is being set up to fail

Lol

ok, easy,peasy

list the players that excel at 2 way play
list those that are solid defensively (D or forward)
list those that have a modicum of grit/finish checks/hard forecheck/backcheck/corner play.

i have 5 fingers on one hand and i don't run out of them, trying to fill that list.

 

[Martin Skoula]

ok, easy,peasy

list the players that excel at 2 way play
list those that are solid defensively (D or forward)
list those that have a modicum of grit/finish checks/hard forecheck/backcheck/corner play.

i have 5 fingers on one hand and i don't run out of them, trying to fill that list.

We had a team full of those and it finished in last place with Babcock.

 

[Faltorvo]

We had a team full of those and it finished in last place with Babcock.

ahh yaaa, in a season where the goal was to finish last place or have you forgotten?

 

[Jozay]

ok, easy,peasy

list the players that excel at 2 way play
list those that are solid defensively (D or forward)
list those that have a modicum of grit/finish checks/hard forecheck/backcheck/corner play.

i have 5 fingers on one hand and i don't run out of them, trying to fill that list.

Lets focus on what actually matters. List players that are unproductive.

 

[egd27]

We had a team full of those and it finished in last place with Babcock.

Sure we did.........oh goodness gracious, the level some of you will go to is laughable.

We had a team full players that excelled in two way play when we finished last?

 

[JEI]

 

[Al14]

Babcock sets himself, and the team, up to fail all by himself.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

pretty hard to do when the gm gives you nothing but square pegs.

Supporters of Bab's never preface their accolades with "Best coach of a stacked Canada Olympic team" when they describe him...so, if he is a great coach..."get at 'er and keep grinding" like he loves to say.

You are paid to coach whatever the GM puts in front of you...not a cheat code type team that is stacked like he has had in the past. This is where all of the praise he's been given get's to be proven or disproven.

 

[The Podium]

it really sounds like you are just like many of our top players and only focusing on one aspect of the game , the "sexy aspect , offence"

i can't run out of fingers on one hand when i try to count the players that excel at the other aspects of the game, like IDK defencive play and other things.

That is the furthest thing from true, and for reference Patrice Bergeron is my favourite player in the league for playing the right way. Big fan of O'Reilly as well. The thing is, players that excel at an elite level at both ends of the ice are few and far between.

The coach should be aware that he doesnt have a Patrice Bergeron and instead try to defend by possession. He has players with the talent and IQ to hold on to the puck, and for every second we have the puck the opposition doesnt. Play to that strength, rather than trying to force a 5'10" offensive wizard to block shots.

 

[TOGuy14]

Dubas: ices a roster with Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Muzzin, Barrie, Andersen and more

Cox: BABCOCK HAS BEEN SET UP TO FAIL!!!!!

Cox is such an idiot. Talent wise this roster is top three in the league. Do I think Spezza as 4th line C is bad? Yes. Is that any excuse given the rest of the talent on the roster? No

 

[67Leafs67]

Uninspiring summer? Dubas literally got rid of every last bad contract on the team, while adding only one (Ceci - a 1 year deal, mind you), and not really giving up that much overall in terms of draft positions. Not to mention, the Kadri/Barrie swap was great...the way Kerfoot is playing has really justified that deal, and Barrie essentially replaces Gardiner, but with a right handed shot.

Given Dubas' situation, this was a very inspiring summer, the only gaping weakness being the Marner negotiations...but every other part I give him an A+ on. He's assembled a deep, skilled, modern roster that Babcock, or any other coach, should be able to win with. Sure there are weaknesses, but every team has weaknesses, and needs to figure out how to play to their strengths in such a way that they win. Babcock seems unwilling to do that.

 

[justanotherleafsfan]

I'm reading the article and he's basically ******** about two things:

1. That even though Dubas went out and got a long-coveted organizational need (Barrie) by dealing a redundancy, he didn't try hard enough to get one of the easiest pieces to get, a backup goalie (hello, Neuvirth PTO).

2. Because he overpaid for Nylander, Matthews and Marner he had to look in the bargain bin for guys like Spezza, Mikeyhev and have Tima and Sandin up.

Just imagine guys! If we didn't overpay Marner and Matthews or get Tavares last year, we could have kept JVR, Komarov, Gardiner and even added Jason Pominville, Patrick Maroon, Ben Hutton and Magnus Paajarvi!

We could have even traded Marner for an older identical player who makes more in Panarin!

How has no Leafs journo not figured out that cap room is bad, from JFJ to Nonis I cringed when the Leafs would have cap room and would blindly spend it like reprobates, hello Jason Blake (and he wasn't even the worse).

Leafs spending to the cap on superstars then nickel and diming the filler is the best situation for this market.

If not for Dubas the Leafs would have been making a push for Tyler Myers.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Dubas: ices a roster with Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Muzzin, Barrie, Andersen and more

Cox: BABCOCK HAS BEEN SET UP TO FAIL!!!!!

Cox is such an idiot. Talent wise this roster is top three in the league. Do I think Spezza as 4th line C is bad? Yes. Is that any excuse given the rest of the talent on the roster? No

Talent only gets one so far it would seem.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Uninspiring summer? Dubas literally got rid of every last bad contract on the team, while adding only one (Ceci - a 1 year deal, mind you), and not really giving up that much overall in terms of draft positions. Not to mention, the Kadri/Barrie swap was great...the way Kerfoot is playing has really justified that deal, and Barrie essentially replaces Gardiner, but with a right handed shot.

Given Dubas' situation, this was a very inspiring summer, the only gaping weakness being the Marner negotiations...but every other part I give him an A+ on. He's assembled a deep, skilled, modern roster that Babcock, or any other coach, should be able to win with. Sure there are weaknesses, but every team has weaknesses, and needs to figure out how to play to their strengths in such a way that they win. Babcock seems unwilling to do that.

What does a modern roster look like? Cause we look nothing like the Blues or Caps (although they might be old fashioned?)

 

[sparxx87]

What does a modern roster look like? Cause we look nothing like the Blues or Caps (although they might be old fashioned?)

Boston-St Louis
Washington-Las Vegas
Pittsburgh-San Jose

6 big and heavy teams with elite talent at the top but a balance throughout. With how the whistles go away in the playoffs, you’d have to be an absolute fool to think this Leafs team can win 16 playoff games against teams like that with the current group.

Cox isn’t right very often, but he’s got a point here.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Boston-St Louis
Washington-Las Vegas
Pittsburgh-San Jose

6 big and heavy teams with elite talent at the top but a balance throughout. With how the whistles go away in the playoffs, you’d have to be an absolute fool to think this Leafs team can win 16 playoff games against teams like that with the current roster.

We likely would have won against Boston if the whistles actually did go away. We had the edge at 5v5, they were absolutely obliterating us on the PP. They never did go away though, the amount of penalties in that series was marginally less than what we saw all season.

 

[sparxx87]

We likely would have won against Boston if the whistles actually did go away. We had the edge at 5v5, they were absolutely obliterating us on the PP. They never did go away though, the amount of penalties in that series was marginally less than what we saw all season.

I disagree. When the intensity and physicality was ramped up the Leafs didn’t want to play. Tavares, Marner, Nylander etc looked intimidated and were relatively ineffective. Most of the team looked to be holding on for dear life.

Every winning team needs at least one player who’ll rip your heart out to win... Zach Hyman and Trevor Moore being the first two nominees in that conversation means your team has problems.

 

[notdoneyet]

All babcock talked about last year at his year end presser was how he didnt have the depth to overcome injuries

he didnt admit one ounce of blame

this year dubas has given him a full team and a bunch of guys on the marlies who can come up in case of injuries

no more excuses fir this guy
this coach has a top core second to none in the league

matthews
Marner
Tavares
Nylander
Rielly
Andersen

thsts our core
Look at the next level of players

barrie
Muzzin
Kappanen
Johnsson
Kerfoot

this is any coaches dream

no more excuses