Who would be a sensible comparison for Housley? Zhitnik?
Who would be a sensible comparison for Housley? Zhitnik?
He was, rightfully, seen as the player who always rose up to the occasion. The occasion usually being contract year.
My statement remains.
Go look at HHOF.
Check out how many Russians are there and how many from USA.
Then tell me that my statement is incorrect.
There have been considerably more American NHLers than Russian. The HOF, in most cases, other than the early 1990's, and the odd token Soviet star, is based on NHL play. There is no conspiracy.
He wasn't a two season wonder, he had a good career.
But I don't think people who were watching him in his late 20s and 30s ever felt they were watching a Hall of Fame career play out. Even borderline guys usually give you that feeling.
This feels like one of those things where you start wondering when Danny Gare is going to pop up as the next candidate.
This is going to be controversial, but I genuinely think that Russian players needed to do something truly special to get award considerations.
I'm sorry but there is a pretty significant Canadian good ole boy network. Good ole boy network with a memory of the 70s and 80s.
The fact that Zubov has such a underwhelming award resume is ridiculous. Mogilny also.
He was, rightfully, seen as the player who always rose up to the occasion. The occasion usually being contract year.
Who would be a sensible comparison for Housley? Zhitnik?
eligible Post-1980 wingers I would induct before Mogilny, in no order:
Brian Propp
Steve Larmer
Keith Tkachuk
Rick Middleton
Theoren Fleury
and that's just post-1980 wingers, never mind centers, defensemen, goalies and players from the 90 years before 1980. He's just not really a huge priority if we're trying to right the wrongs of the HHOF.
or Mike Green.
eligible Post-1980 wingers I would induct before Mogilny, in no order:
Brian Propp
Steve Larmer
Keith Tkachuk
Rick Middleton
Theoren Fleury
and that's just post-1980 wingers, never mind centers, defensemen, goalies and players from the 90 years before 1980. He's just not really a huge priority if we're trying to right the wrongs of the HHOF.
Actually, Mogilny's award "sheet" is eerily similar to Alex Kovalev.
i would subtract tkachuk from that list, add kariya, add leclair, and probably add kovalchuk. i think mogilny and larmer are pretty neck and neck, all told, below the middleton and propp level.
but no, i don't see any reason to induct mogilny though he might have been the second most talented winger of his generation.
mogilny was better than kovalev in every conceivable way. and his trophy case is literally twice as big.
retro rocket richard: mogilny 1, kovalev 0
2nd team all-star: mogilny 2, kovalev 1
top ten in scoring: mogilny 2, kovalev 1
top ten in goals: mogilny 3, kovalev 2
mogilny: 3 more career points in 326 fewer games
[Mod] What the heck has Larmer ever done to be in the HHOF? His entire career basically spanned the scoring bonanza of the 80s and he's barely PPG...
i would subtract tkachuk from that list, add kariya, add leclair, and probably add kovalchuk. i think mogilny and larmer are pretty neck and neck, all told, below the middleton and propp level.
but no, i don't see any reason to induct mogilny though he might have been the second most talented winger of his generation.
... But Kovalev has a 3rd AST and actually has more Hart support than Mogilny.
The AST's are the following :
Kovalev : 2 - 3 - 7 - 10 - 15 - 20
Mogilny : 2 - 2 - 7 - 10 - 10 - 12
I mean, Mogilny was a better player than Kovalev, but the only way to make Mogilny twice better than Kovalev is to carefuly carve out what's important and what's not.
Kovalev also was a significantly better playoff performer.
The issue is, if a player is that close to Kovalev, he's not an HHOF. And since the only thing that makes those players no close are selective arguments, well..
You know better than to cite 7th-20th place finishes in AST voting and act like it means anything at all.
I'm surprised you think they're all that close - I really don't. The playoff piece is true; Kovalev did have a handful of productive playoffs. Other than that, Mogilny is the better producer day-to-day, did not have the help of Lemieux/Jagr spiking his totals in 4 of his 5 best seasons, and is actually ahead in intangibles (and we can't really say that when comparing Mogilny to most players).
The first paragraph is odd, because Mogilny looks slightly ahead by that measure.
Take them out, and it's 2, 2 vs. 2, 3. Mogilny is still ahead, but is it that significant?
And in Mogilny's "spike" season, he wasn't the best forward on his team either.
Again, there's nothing wrong with what you said either. I never said Kovalev was better than Mogilny because he wasn't better than Mogilny. My point is mostly that if a player's "high" are sooooo close to Alex Kovalev, then he's probably not a player that HAS to be in the HHOF.
Second team all-star (twice) and goal scoring leader (once) are really the only significant achievements here.
I'm going to vote no for the Hall.
No, he wasn't, but he scored at 94% of the rate of that guy. In the best of Kovalev's 4 seasons in Pittsburgh, he hit 88% of his benefactor's scoring rate.
Mogilny reportedly could be quite a sourpuss, to journalists or fans, so I don't think he's winning any extra points to a potential case with his off ice charm. Same goes for Tkachuk, by the way.
... But Kovalev has a 3rd AST and actually has more Hart support than Mogilny.
The AST's are the following :
Kovalev : 2 - 3 - 7 - 10 - 15 - 20
Mogilny : 2 - 2 - 7 - 10 - 10 - 12
I mean, Mogilny was a better player than Kovalev, but the only way to make Mogilny twice better than Kovalev is to carefuly carve out what's important and what's not.
Kovalev also was a significantly better playoff performer.
The issue is, if a player is that close to Kovalev, he's not an HHOF. And since the only thing that makes those players no close are selective arguments, well..
I would not subtract Tkachuk, but yes, definitely add Kariya, LeClair and Kovalchuk. See, my list was made rather hastily. Now I'm already at 8.
maybe it's just because tkachuk is one of my least favourite players of all time, but i just don't see a case for tkachuk in the company of those other guys you listed. i have him as basically bondra. terrible in the playoffs, hart voting record at almost zero (bondra actually got more hart votes over his career than tkachuk), low points totals, lives and dies on a pair of 50 goal years and high goals finishes. if bondra and tkachuk switched sides, wouldn't bondra be the one with the AST record of 2, 2, 3, 3 and tkachuk with 4, 4, 5, 5? they have exactly the same peak.