Confirmed with Link: Habs sign Otto Leskinen to 2 year ELC

[NotProkofievian]

I care about Juulsen and Kulak cause I think they are still growing and improving from where they are today. I rather have Juulsen and Kulak in the bottom 4 vs Ouellet, Alzner, Reilly, Schlemko. It was pretty clear how bad our D was in that 2 week span when Juulsen got hurt and Weber was not back yet. Price was exposed big time. When our D stabilized, our shutdown ability and GAA improved.

Having a bunch of guys that skate well but are outmatched physically in their own end or have lack of foot speed is not a recipe for success. Talk to the Leafs about that one.

Not talking about the old Shutdown D type. Talking about the new type. I like Juulsen and Kulak in the line-up and I agree with Julien and his coaching staff.

One day you will learn to pick your spots with prospects. Remember when you were putting McCarron in your little lists?

 

[Runner77]

I don't know how reliable this assessment is, but the same guy who wrote Leskinen's profile for Dobber, said this:



I know, it doesn't necessarily mean much -- it depends on how much quality there is in this year's crop.

 

[Tighthead]

"We had a player that was supposed to be a great, shut-down defenseman. He was supposedly the be-all, end-all of defensemen. But when you did a 10-game analysis of him, you found out he was defending all the time because he can’t move the puck.
"Then we had another guy, who supposedly couldn’t defend a lick. Well, he was defending only 20 percent of the time because he’s making good plays out of our end. He may not be the strongest defender, but he’s only doing it 20 percent of the time. So the equation works out better the other way. I ended up trading the other defenseman."

This quote really helped clarify my thinking on hockey, and even some other sports.

 

[Habs Halifax]

One day you will learn to pick your spots with prospects. Remember when you were putting McCarron in your little lists?

Yes, I had him as a 4th line depth player and you made fun of it and ignored a bunch of other interesting info. I remember it very well. It was December of 17 when we argued about the Habs having a middle of the pack prospect pool vs bottom of the league. You said our production was solely based on Galchenyuk and had this 104 system of something like that. I removed Galchenyuk and every other teams best producing pick and Habs were still in the middle of the pack. You disappeared then and moved off your McCarron belittle attempt. Also, do you remember me saying DLR was also a depth prospect? It was weird, you acted like I though they were top 9 talent which I clearly didn't

One day you will learn to pick your spots with prospects. Turns out I was right about our 2017 draft and we were turning the corner. Thanks for bringing this up

 

[admiralcadillac]

Why are some still focusing on +/-? Cale Fleury is a textbook example of why you shouldn't take it as a relevant stat.

But people point to Cale fleury's +/- as well haha

 

[NotProkofievian]

Yes, I had him as a 4th line depth player and you made fun of it and ignored a bunch of other interesting info. I remember it very well. It was December of 17 when we argued about the Habs having a middle of the pack prospect pool vs bottom of the league. You said our production was solely based on Galchenyuk and had this 104 system of something like that. I removed Galchenyuk and every other teams best producing pick and Habs were still in the middle of the pack. You disappeared then and moved off your McCarron belittle attempt. Also, do you remember me saying DLR was also a depth prospect? It was weird, you acted like I though they were top 9 talent which I clearly didn't

One day you will learn to pick your spots with prospects. Turns out I was right about our 2017 draft and we were turning the corner. Thanks for bringing this up

This is what a mental short circuit looks like.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This is what a mental short circuit looks like.

I don't expect you to give me any credit. I was right and you were wrong. I made a strong stance that the Habs were turning the corner with our drafting and developing in Dec of 17 and fast forward today, I am right with the controversial stance I had back then that you tried to belittle me on. We have a top 5 prospect pool and I have no doubt about this. Pretty sure you agree on this too

It's OK, you are allowed to be incorrect sometimes. You are human. I was very wrong about Alzner and I'm not afraid to admit it today

It's it nice on our boards where the "draft and developing" propaganda attempts trying to say we suck at it has disappeared. Those 4 years of drafting man from 08-11 had ripple effects and it takes time to overcome this

 

[CoopersFalls]

He can shoot the puck, which 70% of our D can’t do. So I like it.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I don't expect you to give me any credit. I was right and you were wrong. I made a strong stance that the Habs were turning the corner with our drafting and developing in Dec of 17 and fast forward today, I am right with the controversial stance I had back then that you tried to belittle me on. We have a top 5 prospect pool and I have no doubt about this. Pretty sure you agree on this too

It's OK, you are allowed to be incorrect sometimes. You are human. I was very wrong about Alzner and I'm not afraid to admit it today

It's it nice on our boards where the "draft and developing" propaganda attempts trying to say we suck at it has disappeared. Those 4 years of drafting man from 08-11 had ripple effects and it takes time to overcome this

Yeah, except your argument was that we haven't yet seen what Bergevin's drafts had given us yet, and that we should #waitandsee on the years 2012-2015, which gave us Lehkonen, in total.

You were so right, how do you manage to remain humble in the face of such omniscient correctness?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah, except your argument was that we haven't yet seen what Bergevin's drafts had given us yet, and that we should #waitandsee on the years 2012-2015, which gave us Lehkonen, in total.

You were so right, how do you manage to remain humble in the face of such omniscient correctness?

At the time, it was Lehkonen, Mete, Juulsen, Scherbak, Poehling, Brook, Ikonen, Fleury, Primeau, Evans, Bitten, Lindgren, Vejdemo, etc but your focus in debate was we suck at drafting and developing and they will be nothing special. You also focused on haveing a huge issue with McCarron and DLR as 4th line depth players which was weird. Way to be, you stood your ground on arguing about 4th line depth. God job! lol

Remember, I reminded you several times it was Dec of 2017. I made strong stance that you clearly were against. I said we are going to turn the corner with our drafting and developing and I'm betting on hitting based on probability of top 100 picks. I must of said that 100 times. I also said the ripple effects of the 08-11 draft years were a factor which you tried to squash as well.

It's OK to be wrong. I still value most of the things you say and I don't take offense But remember, you brought up McCarron today, not me.

 

[NotProkofievian]

At the time, it was Lehkonen, Mete, Juulsen, Scherbak, Poehling, Brook, Ikonen, Fleury, Primeau, Evans, Bitten, Lindgren, Vejdemo, etc but your focus in debate was we suck at drafting and developing and they will be nothing special. You also focused on haveing a huge issue with McCarron and DLR as 4th line depth players which was weird. Way to be, you stood your ground on arguing about 4th line depth. God job! lol

Remember, I reminded you several times it was Dec of 2017. I made strong stance that you clearly were against. I said we are going to turn the corner with our drafting and developing and I'm betting on hitting based on probability of top 100 picks. I must of said that 100 times. I also said the ripple effects of the 08-11 draft years were a factor which you tried to squash as well.

It's OK to be wrong. I still value most of the things you say and I don't take offense But remember, you brought up McCarron today, not me.

There is no reason for you to use as many words as you do in your posts. They are all virtually content free.

Your entire argument was not based on the drafts of 2017 and onwards, it was based on Bergevin's drafts, which started in 2012. You said that Bergevin had ''nothing to work with'' because of 2008-2011, but things were turning around because of how much better our drafting was 2012 and onwards. Well, 2012-2015 have been every bit as big of a bust for us as the years 2008-2011 have been. I was right about this, and you and your stupid little lists were wrong.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Good skating ability and great shot

He got 31 pts in 57 games in his 21st year old season, which is pretty good.
Kaski had only 6 pts in his 21st year old season

 

[Habs Halifax]

There is no reason for you to use as many words as you do in your posts. They are all virtually content free.

Your entire argument was not based on the drafts of 2017 and onwards, it was based on Bergevin's drafts, which started in 2012. You said that Bergevin had ''nothing to work with'' because of 2008-2011, but things were turning around because of how much better our drafting was 2012 and onwards. Well, 2012-2015 have been every bit as big of a bust for us as the years 2008-2011 have been. I was right about this, and you and your stupid little lists were wrong.

I have to explain things with you cause you need a reminder. I said a lot of things and the post you replied to was the core of our debate. The main point? Probability of hitting based on position of pick and quantity of picks. Said right after the 2017 draft and look at that... the 2018 draft appears to be a good one too! Also remember that I didn't really know for sure how good the 2017 draft would be in Dec of 17

As far as Bergevin's ability to improve the team. He started with a solid core but the prospect pool as not great. You don't have a good prospect pool when you pick 8 times in the top 100 for a 4 year span. You can argue that all you want. As far as the 2012 and 2013 drafts, in hindsight, we can look back now and we know those were not deep drafts (reality). So yeah, Bergevin did not have much to use to get in on trades. The 14, 15, 16 drafts were lacking 2nd round picks and it's nothing to brag about other than Evans, Hawkey, Juulsen, Vejdemo, Sergachev, Mete. Not terrible but certainly not better than average. Lack of 2nd round picks has a lot to do with it.

Also, I think you are mixing up two debates. Drafting and developing vs Bergevin's ability to improve the team. Two different things. Keep moving the goal post but I'm going to remind you... My opinion trumped yours in terms of the Habs turning the corner in drafting and developing.

 

[Habs]

Heard this song too many times, not holding much hope.

 

[ganiseri]

I played with this guy couple of years in finland, when we were young. So happy for this guy. Hard working and really good guy. You guys are going to love him.

 

[donghabs98]

The Finnish M.A.B...

He'll be a great welcome to the 4th line then too!

 

[Runner77]

I played with this guy couple of years in finland, when we were young. So happy for this guy. Hard working and really good guy. You guys are going to love him.

Habs have been paying a lot more attention to Finnish players in the past year or so. Maybe Saku is on his way to join Habs management.

 

[ganiseri]

Habs have been paying a lot more attention to Finnish players in the past year or so. Maybe Saku is on his way to join Habs management.

They could make him a scout in finland.

 

[OldCraig71]

Bergevin just needs to sign a journeyman backup goalie and he is done.

 

[Runner77]

They could make him a scout in finland.

Saku's a bright guy. I wish they'd do that.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I have to explain things with you cause you need a reminder. I said a lot of things and the post you replied to was the core of our debate. The main point? Probability of hitting based on position of pick and quantity of picks. Said right after the 2017 draft and look at that... the 2018 draft appears to be a good one too! Also remember that I didn't really know for sure how good the 2017 draft would be in Dec of 17

As far as Bergevin's ability to improve the team. He started with a solid core but the prospect pool as not great. You don't have a good prospect pool when you pick 8 times in the top 100 for a 4 year span. You can argue that all you want. As far as the 2012 and 2013 drafts, in hindsight, we can look back now and we know those were not deep drafts (reality). So yeah, Bergevin did not have much to use to get in on trades. The 14, 15, 16 drafts were lacking 2nd round picks and it's nothing to brag about other than Evans, Hawkey, Juulsen, Vejdemo, Sergachev, Mete. Not terrible but certainly not better than average. Lack of 2nd round picks has a lot to do with it.

Also, I think you are mixing up two debates. Drafting and developing vs Bergevin's ability to improve the team. Two different things. Keep moving the goal post but I'm going to remind you... My opinion trumped yours in terms of the Habs turning the corner in drafting and developing.

Except for the fact that this didn't happen. 4 drafts went near total bust (including two with 11 top 100 picks, omg), the only player making our roster being the only player that our development system didn't touch. And it was absolutely part of your argument that we had to wait and see what the 2012 drafts and onwards had in store for us. I said it was nothing, you disagreed. You were wrong. There were many subarguments that we had on this topic, one of which was over what constitutes a hit in the draft. You wanted to count all kinds of shitty players like Andrighetto, while I pointed out that these players make no difference to an organization. I have in no way been proven ''wrong'' on this point.

Guys, we really turned a corner in 2014 when we drafted Lernout ahead of Point and Koberstein (at all)!

 

[Habs Halifax]

Except for the fact that this didn't happen. 4 drafts went near total bust (including two with 11 top 100 picks, omg), the only player making our roster being the only player that our development system didn't touch. And it was absolutely part of your argument that we had to wait and see what the 2012 drafts and onwards had in store for us. I said it was nothing, you disagreed. You were wrong. There were many subarguments that we had on this topic, one of which was over what constitutes a hit in the draft. You wanted to count all kinds of ****ty players like Andrighetto, while I pointed out that these players make no difference to an organization. I have in no way been proven ''wrong'' on this point.

Guys, we really turned a corner in 2014 when we drafted Lernout ahead of Point and Koberstein (at all)!

Now you are moving goal post. Why do I need to remind you that I said we were turning the corner in December of 2017 after the 2017 draft? Come on man, you are better than this. Just drop it, I was right and you were wrong by jumping on my back with your nit picking approach

December of 2017 was the time and the debate/problem you had was with me saying this...

- 08-11 draft years with only 8 top 100 picks have ripple effects and it takes time to recover from this.
- We did not have a good 12 and 13 draft years and hit with the picks we had cause they were not deep drafts.
- The next 3 years were missing 2nd round picks. We did OK but nothing to brag about
- I said after the 2017 draft, we will be turning the corner with our draft and developing and I was right. I'm pretty sure you like our prospect pool today. My narrative was based on PROBABILITY OF HITTING ON TARGETS DUE TO POSITION OF DRAFT PICKS AND QUANTITY OF PICKS

I rest my case. You can twist it and move the goal posts if you wish.

 

[Runner77]

Guys, we really turned a corner in 2014 when we drafted Lernout ahead of Point and Koberstein (at all)!

We will have only really turned the corner when the Habs poach the scouts that have a track record of finding talent that eludes others. Of course, it's an inexact science but there are those who hit for a higher average. Can't be a coincidence.

 

[Fixxer]

On est en voiture...

 

[Fixxer]

Heard this song too many times, not holding much hope.

We saw some things like that before. Might end up in the AHL and back to Europe the year after if it doesn't work out (see Jerabek).