Proposal: Habs offer sheet Mantha

[V13]

Wouldn't mind Mantha on the Habs but not for a 9.5m offer sheet.It's too expensive and too risky and has the potential to backfire badly. The risks outweight the potential gains imho

 

[FMichael]

I don't know who Mantha's agent is but that's funny if it's Brisson. Domi just fired him as his agent cause he is Bergevin's friend.

Contracts by Agent | Puckpedia

 

[glenbuis]

Then you just piss them off for nothing. I rather make an offer that the Wings feel they would be better with. That to me is the 2 1st's vs 1.

Your point is valid I’d love to see Mantha in Montreal Im hoping yzerman and Mantha will be to far apart in negotiations

 

[Hunter368]

Pretty sure I said that a few pages ago but hey... don't matter. Not trying to give you a hard time

Im not taking it as a hard time and I’m not trying to give you a hard time.........My point was more just a word of caution with such an idea.......but as you say you’re ok with overpaying and you’re ok if other Habs players not liking it you would just trade them or let them walk via UFA......that’s cool NP by me.

 

[BLNY]

Remember how much heat Pacioretty took from Habs fans when he was on a $4.5M contract?

This would be essentially the same thing, except he's 2 inches taller, being paid twice as much and cost major future building blocks in comp. What could possibly go wrong?

Max took heat towards the end of his time in Montreal, but for the bulk of the contract he was lauded for his production and bang for buck.

As for Mantha and an offer sheet of $9 million or more, not a chance.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Disagree it's awful. And I've lowered it to $8.75M for 5 years lately. That would be Mantha overpaid by $2M max right? The two 1st, 2nd, 3rd makes Yzerman think and I do think this fits their rebuild better cause by the time the wings potentially surface as a contender or team on the rise... Mantha is 30

Seems like several Wings fans would like the two 1st, 2nd, and 3rd so not sure what the aggression is towards the Habs. Look at post 151... don't look so bad to me with the Habs moving forward.

Well I guess it's a question of why you'd give up so many assets just to overpay a guy who is nowhere close to a franchise player. This type of offer might've been sensible for Aho or Barzal but even though your amended proposal is less insane it's still a very bad idea.

Also given the Habs are in no way guaranteed to be good this could easily be lottery picks for Kessel 2.0.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The Sabres switched GMs so hopefully for them they don't. That said, because of their blatant tanking which caused the league to come up with the current lottery system which has significantly punished my team more than any other, they can rot for all I care. While I feel for their fans, my schadenfreude will be tremendous when Eichel walks at the end of his contract.

If you can't build around Eichel and Dahlin, you got problems.

 

[Habs Halifax]

To the bold...Yeah - I'd def take that instead of backing up the Brinks truck into Mantha's driveway.

Mission accomplished. How it looks for the Habs is in post 151. Not sure this is so terrible for either team to be honest.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Your point is valid I’d love to see Mantha in Montreal Im hoping yzerman and Mantha will be to far apart in negotiations

If I was Yzerman, I would want Mantha for 7 or 8 years vs 5. Why? Cause his contract overlaps the point where they would be potential contenders and they would have him during that last 2 or 3 years (+/-). But Mantha will probably ask for more than $7M on a 7 or 8 year term. So then how do they come to terms on a 5 year deal? What does this do for the Wings rebuild strategy? They would have to pay him more when he is 30.

What does Mantha want? Anybodies guess. Is he content with being on a rebuilding team in his prime years?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Im not taking it as a hard time and I’m not trying to give you a hard time.........My point was more just a word of caution with such an idea.......but as you say you’re ok with overpaying and you’re ok if other Habs players not liking it you would just trade them or let them walk via UFA......that’s cool NP by me.

I understand the risks but I also understand the risks of going more seasons with more than $5M in cap space and wasting years of Price and Weber too. With all the ELC/Bridge deals, I think this is a very good point for the Habs to get aggressive

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well I guess it's a question of why you'd give up so many assets just to overpay a guy who is nowhere close to a franchise player. This type of offer might've been sensible for Aho or Barzal but even though your amended proposal is less insane it's still a very bad idea.

Also given the Habs are in no way guaranteed to be good this could easily be lottery picks for Kessel 2.0.

In 4 or 5 years, $8.75M won't look as bad as you think it does today. Habs are not far from the top 10 status as many people think. Our 20 and 21 year old centers showed us what we can do and this with Price and Weber still effective. Habs wasting our vet years is also risky

Vets: Price, Weber, Petry, Gallagher
Middle core: Mantha, Danault, Drouin, Lehkonen, Armia
Young core: Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Romanov, Caufield, Quinn (Domi trade), Norlinder, Primeau

Plus we have a shit load of grade B type young players who can bust or surprise: Struble, Evans, Juulsen, Fleury, Brook, Harris, Ylonen, Hillis, Olofsson etc. You can try to pretend all teams have what we have but they don't. Habs have both quality and quantity and not many can touch us with 28 picks over 3 drafts (16 of them top 100) and a lot more to come in the next draft. Even with the picks we loose in the Mantha offer sheet, we still have a shit load of futures/picks. We are in great shape. Signing Mantha and overpaying him slightly likely means Tatar, Byron, Kulak, are gone.

This is about Price/Weber time left and the ELC/Bridge deals on our youth. It's a good point to get aggressive.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

In 4 or 5 years, $8.75M won't look as bad as you think it does today. Habs are not far from the top 10 status as many people think. Our 20 and 21 year old centers showed us what we can do and this with Price and Weber still effective. Habs wasting our vet years is also risky

Vets: Price, Weber, Petry, Gallagher
Middle core: Mantha, Danault, Drouin, Lehkonen, Armia
Young core: Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Romanov, Caufield, Quinn (Domi trade), Norlinder, Primeau

Plus we have a shit load of grade B type young players who can bust or surprise: Struble, Evans, Juulsen, Fleury, Brook, Harris, Ylonen, Hillis, Olofsson etc. You can try to pretend all teams have what we have but they don't. Habs have both quality and quantity and not many can touch us with 28 picks over 3 drafts (16 of them top 100) and a lot more to come in the next draft. Even with the picks we loose in the Mantha offer sheet, we still have a shit load of futures/picks. We are in great shape. Signing Mantha and overpaying him slightly likely means Tatar, Byron, Kulak, are gone.

This is about Price/Weber time left and the ELC/Bridge deals on our youth. It's a good point to get aggressive.

Right off the bat we've got a flat cap for 3 years, realistically I would prepare for longer. With that in mind it's odd to give up multiple assets to pay someone more than they'd get in UFA. Also as you said you've come down from the figure starting with a 9 but if you're willing to go there why not Barzal at 10? Or go after Laine? It's just a steep price to pay to overpay a non superstar.

As for projecting Montreal I haven't accepted Suzuki as our Lord and Savior yet so we'll probably have vastly different takes.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Right off the bat we've got a flat cap for 3 years, realistically I would prepare for longer. With that in mind it's odd to give up multiple assets to pay someone more than they'd get in UFA. Also as you said you've come down from the figure starting with a 9 but if you're willing to go there why not Barzal at 10? Or go after Laine? It's just a steep price to pay to overpay a non superstar.

As for projecting Montreal I haven't accepted Suzuki as our Lord and Savior yet so we'll probably have vastly different takes.

- Flat cap for 3 years is not fact.
- I rather sign a key UFA too but they don't typically sign with the Habs.
- Post 151 shows the 21/22 season and the Habs still have $3M (+/-) in cap space.

In case you didn't notice, Mantha has the same production as Laine in the last two years and his upward trajectory is more positive than the flat curve of Laine. Then consider the talent Mantha plays with vs Laine? Mantha is a late bloomer but his development is noticeably going up while Laine is flat. I think you are overlooking Mantha. Laine's career stats are 66 pts and 37 goals... this with a very good top 6 and PP talent. I love Laine's shot but I think he's overrated.

I don't have the Habs as top heavy like other teams so I don't need Suzuki to be the absolute #1C. Habs rolling 3 lines is actually a better strategy IMO.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

dude what the hell 2legit

 

[FMichael]

dude what the hell 2legit

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Your point is valid I’d love to see Mantha in Montreal Im hoping yzerman and Mantha will be to far apart in negotiations

Yeah if this were true but it's not, Mantha wouldn't have just purchased a new home in the Detroit area. That alone tells me that a deal is near at what he wants.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

- Flat cap for 3 years is not fact.
- I rather sign a key UFA too but they don't typically sign with the Habs.
- Post 151 shows the 21/22 season and the Habs still have $3M (+/-) in cap space.

In case you didn't notice, Mantha has the same production as Laine in the last two years and his upward trajectory is more positive than the flat curve of Laine. Then consider the talent Mantha plays with vs Laine? Mantha is a late bloomer but his development is noticeably going up while Laine is flat. I think you are overlooking Mantha. Laine's career stats are 66 pts and 37 goals... this with a very good top 6 and PP talent. I love Laine's shot but I think he's overrated.

I don't have the Habs as top heavy like other teams so I don't need Suzuki to be the absolute #1C. Habs rolling 3 lines is actually a better strategy IMO.

Very optimistic to bet against the flat cap. Yes I could see the Habs having success with that roster but not serious playoff run type success in which case is it worth the gamble? They could still miss the playoffs.

Laine hasn't stagnated so much as been up and down, his first season he was an elite even strength scorer, pacing 40 goals. His second he dominated on the powerplay for 45. His third he struggled but still hit 30. And his most recent he flew under the radar pacing 30 again with a career high in assists. Yes he benefits from the Jets good powerplay options but really hasn't got to work with a great center at even strength much at all. Laine still has all the potential in the world and I don't think the same about Mantha. I think Mantha's ceiling is Laine's floor.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Mantha is staying in Detroit, it’s laughable that the same person keeps repeating themselves and not listening to multiple people saying the same thing

 

[Habs Halifax]

Very optimistic to bet against the flat cap. Yes I could see the Habs having success with that roster but not serious playoff run type success in which case is it worth the gamble? They could still miss the playoffs.

Laine hasn't stagnated so much as been up and down, his first season he was an elite even strength scorer, pacing 40 goals. His second he dominated on the powerplay for 45. His third he struggled but still hit 30. And his most recent he flew under the radar pacing 30 again with a career high in assists. Yes he benefits from the Jets good powerplay options but really hasn't got to work with a great center at even strength much at all. Laine still has all the potential in the world and I don't think the same about Mantha. I think Mantha's ceiling is Laine's floor.

Post 151 is the conservative forecast for 21/22 with a $82M cap and there is still $2.5M in cap space. Nice try.

You are way more pessimistic than I am optimistic. We are even now

 

[HuGo Sham]

Wings have tons of cap space and that's not a problem. Habs have about $10M in cap space if we trade Domi for futures (Sabres for the 8th pick is one example).

Does Yzerman try to low ball his top talent like he did in Tampa? Taxes not the same in Detroit. If Mantha is not happy with the offer from Yzerman, all his agent has to do is call Bergevin.

Offer 1
- 5 years at $8.75M
- If they don't match... 2 Firsts, 1 Second, 1 Third

Offer 2:
- 2 years at $8.75M. I believe he has 2 RFA years left and he gets to UFA quicker. If the Wings match, Habs can circle back when Mantha becomes UFA in 2 years.
- If they don't match... 2 Firsts, 1 Second, 1 Third

Yzerman's perspective... Trying to rebuild and likely wants Mantha for 7 or 8 years overlapping his rebuild and contention start point. But if Mantha is signed for 2 or 5 years does he consider the futures?

are you out your f***ing mind? i like mantha, but he hasn't been healthy in 3 years and has never hit more than 50 pts. A trade, maybe....8.75 mill? never

 

[njx9]

You or I can't pretend to know what he is after and Nurse is just one example. You don't like it but it happened and I bet you it came down to Nurse asking for a AAV much higher than the Oilers wanted in a long term deal.

Circumstance matters. You might be right with him going after guaranteed money or you might be wrong. You use the "ridiculous" which is flawed. I gave you the Nurse example.

Ah, so we're going with "I know that they're not actually comparable at all, but imagine if they were!" That's cool.

I'm also not sure why I wouldn't like Nurse asking for more money than the Oilers wanted to give him.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Post 151 is the conservative forecast for 21/22 with a $82M cap and there is still $2.5M in cap space. Nice try.

You are way more pessimistic than I am optimistic. We are even now

Okay I'm not going through this whole thing to find that but I assume these are your cap projections? In which case I'm not going to take your word for it against insiders. Second, I know Habs aren't hurting for cap space but that doesn't mean you should burn multiple firsts for the right to overpay someone. Also you talk about them becoming a top 10 team in the league so you should probably be pencilling on other additions.

Lastly, what about every other point I made after the first sentence of the previous post?

 

[DaPhazz]

Mantha is staying in Detroit, it’s laughable that the same person keeps repeating themselves and not listening to multiple people saying the same thing

The answer is simple, it's speculative discussions between people who don't know shit about what's going to happen.

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

8.75 and 9.5 mill for Mantha???

Pffft Ha Ha!

Take that money and offer sheet Sergachev, atleast he will become elite.

Hell even try 9.5 mill with PLD or Barzal.

9.5m for Mantha... Ludicrous!

 

[Moose Head]

Good premise, and Mantha is very good, but not worth that type offer sheet. You suggest jettisoning Domi to fit him in, but Domi is the same age and just as productive. Any improvement is negligible, especially since Domi can play Center and wing.

sure, offer sheet someone, but not Mantha at that price.