News Article: Habs Let Go 4 Scouts (OHL, BCHL, USHS - Minn/New Eng)

[Adam Michaels]

So what we are left are.....
Trevor Timmins
Shane Churla
Serge Boisvert - Eastern Canada
Donald Audette - Québec
Elmer Benning - West
Bobby (if you build it, he will come) Kinsella - US
Michael Krupa - Czech and Slovakia
Hannu Laine - Finland
Matt Turek - Doesn't say in the Habs website, but the guy used to be a scout for the Hamilton Bulldogs of the OHL so he is surely our Ontario scout
Ken Morin - West
Christer Rockstrom - Europe
Artem Telepin - Russia
Vic Posa - US (located in Michigan)

It matches what Leclerc said about Habs having 11 scouts plus director of scout Churla and Assistant GM Timmins.

 

[Adam Michaels]

According to TVA Sports, these scouts whose contracts will not be renewed are still invited to come to Dallas to help with the draft and the scouting meetings.

 

[Whitesnake]

You have to hope that we will restructure this scouting group immediately after. What is the point of mentioning that you will put every effort out there for teh draft when you actually don't have anything different from everybody else.

 

[MrNasty]

so basically the scouts for Minnesota High School, BC, New England and Ontario are changing. They will be replaced which will make us at or near the top of league again for the amount of scouts.

Not many great gems found in those areas except for Ontario and that is heavily scouted by several guys including Timmins. Not to say we can't have more.

Hockey Operations

 

[Adam Michaels]

You have to hope that we will restructure this scouting group immediately after. What is the point of mentioning that you will put every effort out there for teh draft when you actually don't have anything different from everybody else.

I hope so, too. That and the pro scouting department.

I don't know if Mark Hunter would be interested, but I would really like him to be running either the amateur or pro scouting departments.

 

[Whitesnake]

On the Ducks website, they have Martin Madden as Director of Amateur Scouting and then you have 12 names in the amateur scouting group. Surely some are part-time....but it will still be around the same number of people.

 

[MrNasty]

It matches what Leclerc said about Habs having 11 scouts plus director of scout Churla and Assistant GM Timmins.

They are all listed on the website.

Hockey Operations

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Adam Michaels]

They are all listed on the website.

Hockey Operations

Yes, because their contracts aren't over yet. They end on June 30th. And according to TVA Sports, will still take part in this year's draft in Dallas.

 

[Whitesnake]

Victor Posa is the President of Rollergard LLC and scout for the NCAA in the Michigan area. So that's surely part time....and is mostly concentrating on the Big Ten Conference.

 

[MrNasty]

Yes, because their contracts aren't over yet. They end on June 30th. And according to TVA Sports, will still take part in this year's draft in Dallas.

I know. Pointing out that the full list is there for those trying to figure out how many we have left.

 

[montreal]

Does anyone know if this is a normal thing, to have so many scouts working part time?

I had 2 offers to scout for ISS and McKeens back in the day when I covered the Habs for HF. Most scouts are part time, the money is shit. I think ISS was saying I'd get around 100 or 200 bucks a month, free tickets to games, plus a food voucher, and I don't remember if they said money for gas as well or not (this was over 15 years ago when they first started) and McKeens wasn't going to pay me at all (they only were interested in me due to Grant talking me up I believe)

So I talked to some people that worked for HF writing but also were scouting and they said it's not what it's cracked up to be. You are part time, never knowing if you are going to be back the next year or not. Low pay, bad food, bad hockey as you are most often out on a Friday/Saturday night in Jan/Feb going to see some kid that might get drafted in the 5th round. If that kid does get drafted and does well, with your name on the reports you'll likely get a bigger role but if not you might be out of a job depending on how the team does, what turnover they have in management.

I don't know what's changed though as I lost touch with all my contacts and spend less time every year relating to hockey.

so basically the scouts for Minnesota High School, BC, New England and Ontario are changing. They will be replaced which will make us at or near the top of league again for the amount of scouts.

Not many great gems found in those areas except for Ontario and that is heavily scouted by several guys including Timmins. Not to say we can't have more.

Hockey Operations

You have to keep in mind at what age they started scouting them, so the part time guys could be looking more at the kids at 15, 16, before they hit the NCAA, CHL.

 

[Runner77]

You have to hope that we will restructure this scouting group immediately after. What is the point of mentioning that you will put every effort out there for teh draft when you actually don't have anything different from everybody else.

Actually, not just different, but better than anyone else due to your spending advantage which is currently being used on better food and what not.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Interesting. But why in this day and age? The whole idea of "professional" and "part time" doesn't jive.

How much do you think these guys are paid? The habs are a wealthy team but they can't be putting too many guys on the payroll for full-time positions. In any case it seems crazy to put a guy on a full-time payroll for the BCHL.

11 scouts + Timmins and Churla still seems like a healthy amount.

 

[Habs]

I don't know what's changed though as I lost touch with all my contacts and spend less time every year relating to hockey.

I know a couple scouts, I'm familiar with the business model and it hasn't changed much...

Some teams pay more than the others, and it shows in the prospect depth they have. Some teams offer a lot more perks as well. Montreal is notoriously awful in the industry with the scouting staff, its a thankless job and TT and the boys take all the credit. Have you ever heard them thank the hard working scouts? Nope.

 

[Runner77]

How much do you think these guys are paid? The habs are a wealthy team but they can't be putting too many guys on the payroll for full-time positions. In any case it seems crazy to put a guy on a full-time payroll for the BCHL.

11 scouts + Timmins and Churla still seems like a healthy amount.

They're not paid all that much, actually. What difference would it make for the Habs, given what they make? So what if the Habs paid them a little more or hired more full timers -- provided they were amongst the best in the league.

Are you trying to tell me that adding a few more scouts is going to make a big dent in their budget?

No one is suggesting to dedicate a full-time scout in the BCHL. They need to have more presence where other teams aren't as present. If they want a drafting advantage, they can't be doing what everybody is doing -- they need to do it better and with more scrutiny. Which means more full time scouts.

I could see a smaller drafting department where a team relies more heavily on analytics but that's not what the Habs are about under MB.

 

[admiralcadillac]

They're not paid all that much, actually. What difference would it make for the Habs, given what they make?

Are you trying to tell me that adding a few more scouts is going to make a big dent in their budget?

No one is suggesting to dedicate a full-time scout in the BCHL. They need to have more presence where other teams aren't as present. If they want a drafting advantage, they can't be doing what everybody is doing.

I could see a smaller drafting department where a team relies more heavily on analytics but that's not what the Habs are about under MB.

That's separate from what you were saying before.

If they have part-time scouts it makes sense that they are for placeslike the BCHL. In any case yes it would make a difference because part-time pay is pennies on the dollar compared to needing to pay someone to work full-time. Part-time can be as little as paying someone to catch a game a week. What would you have a full-time scout do in areas with limited potential for any finds?

They seems to have more scouts than most teams already. I was just referencing your post.

 

[Runner77]

That's separate from what you were saying before.

If they have part-time scouts it makes sense that they are for placeslike the BCHL. In any case yes it would make a difference because part-time pay is pennies on the dollar compared to needing to pay someone to work full-time. Part-time can be as little as paying someone to catch a game a week. What would you have a full-time scout do in areas with limited potential for any finds?

They seems to have more scouts than most teams already. I was just referencing your post.

The BCHL is your argument, I didn't reference it at all in my initial posts. The point matters since all 3 of the scouts not being renewed are part-timers.

The wider argument has to do with why there are so many part-time scouts. Perhaps it can be justified in certain geographic areas, in some particular cases. I don't know what the scouting count is when compared with other teams, but I believe someone had a head count for each team recently, but don't remember the source.

 

[admiralcadillac]

The BCHL is your argument, I didn't reference it at all in my initial posts. The point matters since all 3 of the scouts not being renewed are part-timers.

The wider argument has to do with why there are so many part-time scouts. Perhaps it can be justified in certain geographic areas, in some particular cases. I don't know what the scouting count is when compared with other teams, but I believe someone had a head count for each team recently, but don't remember the source.

I was clearly explaining why some scouts are part-time. That's all. It makes sense that some scouts are part-time. You are finding criticisms of the team where there may be none.

 

[Runner77]

I was clearly explaining why some scouts are part-time. That's all. It makes sense that some scouts are part-time. You are finding criticisms of the team where there may be none.

Going on your merry path of imputing intentions that I didn't have. I was not criticizing but was asking why things are how they are and how they can be better, using the Habs spending advantage. But no, you had to send it into the same gutter that you always do.

Which reminds me why I don't like interacting with you. I'm done.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Going on your merry path of imputing intentions that I didn't have. I was not criticizing but was asking why things are how they are and how they can be better, using the Habs spending advantage. But no, you had to send it into the same gutter that you always do.

Which reminds me why I don't like interacting with you. I'm done.

I think you were being too sensitive

 

[not quite yoda]

Habs fired 3 more amateur scouts today. That s 4 if you include Ludzig, who was let go a week or two ago.

Le Canadien dit au revoir à 4 de ses recruteurs - 25Stanley

edit: Nevermind, already mentioned in the Ludzig thread....

 

[OB5]

Good. they should be firing their pro scouts too. Even if the scouts were adequate, it's time for new blood.

 

[Skip Bayless]

I'm all for quality over quantity.

 

[David Suzuki]

Sucks to see anyone get fired but its for the best I think.