News Article: Habs Let Go 4 Scouts (OHL, BCHL, USHS - Minn/New Eng)

[Doc McKenna]

Steve Ludzik let go by Habs today. Seems like and odd time for fire a Scout with only a couple weeks left before that draft. Anyone know anything about him or the firing? If this has already been posted my apologies, I didn’t see a thread on it.

Canadiens fire Ontario scout ahead of NHL Draft

Just saw his dad was friends of MB. I would love to see the twisted family tree that is the habs management.

 

[Doc McKenna]

With the spotlight now on Ludzik, his background adds another notch to the growing list of nepotist hirings by Bergevin:





I wonder how many more sons and relatives of friends and family have been hired by Bergevin. I guess we're only going to figure it out completely, when they're all let go.

The country club in EDM is bad, however the Trailer Park(no offence to those that live there) of MBs friends and family is worse.

 

[Habs100]

He is the main OHL scout, and is most responsible for those picks. Do you think it was our Czech scout who picked Mete?

You're comment only points to the fact that he had more influence than the Czech scout; it doesn't in any way distinguish whether he, Timmins, or Churla had to do with the Mete pick.

 

[Tuggy]

Same guy who was on the Score a while back? I always liked his segments

 

[Runner77]

Its almost impossible to judge if they are good/bad at their job from an outsider pov. Unless your on the inside, how do you judge if Lapointe/ Mellanby are good, what are they exactly responsible for?

Serigo Memesso, ****ed up on radio once and mentioned how he wanted to meet with Bergevin once to try to get a job.. never got it.

If you look around the league, people hire guys they know/trust/worked with. Doesn't mean they are hiring their unqualified friends.

Stevie Yzerman has Pat Verbeek as Ast GM, what has he done to get that job (using your argument) and a Chris Yzerman as scout.. hmmm.

How is it "almost impossible to judge" for an outsider? We're talking about a business whose results are public, not your typical private corporation.

Just as in any corporation, where the results are abysmal, you're always going to hold accountable those who hold high positions in management, especially if they have been in place for a significant time. Begins with Bergevin, naturally, but then extends to his closest advisors and that includes Mellanby and given Lapointe's rising responsibilities, he should also be held accountable. You don't need to be a management consultant conducting weeks of investigations to be able to know that.

As to your second point, no one has said that if you hire individuals that you know and trust, they are automatically doomed to fail. All we're asking Bergevin to do is surround himself with the best in the business.

As for who Yzerman hired, it looks like he's done a better job than Bergevin. He's also owned Bergevin in a trade. So if he's hired cronies, I prefer Yzerman's cronies over Bergevin's cronies. And that's the bottom line -- give me the cronies that actually perform and I won't care if they are cronies. I submit that your average fan wouldn't care either.

 

[habs03]

How is it "almost impossible to judge" for an outsider? We're talking about a business whose results are public, not your typical private corporation.

Just as in any corporation, where the results are abysmal, you're always going to hold accountable those who hold high positions in management, especially if they have been in place for a significant time. Begins with Bergevin, naturally, but then extends to his closest advisors and that includes Mellanby and given Lapointe's rising responsibilities, he should also be held accountable. You don't need to be a management consultant conducting weeks of investigations to be able to know that.

As to your second point, no one has said that if you hire individuals that you know and trust, they are automatically doomed to fail. All we're asking Bergevin to do is surround himself with the best in the business.

As for who Yzerman hired, it looks like he's done a better job than Bergevin. He's also owned Bergevin in a trade. So if he's hired cronies, I prefer Yzerman's cronies over Bergevin's cronies. And that's the bottom line -- give me the cronies that actually perform and I won't care if they are cronies. I submit that your average fan wouldn't care either.

The results of the team go on Bergevin. How are you judging the work Mellanby? Which moves was he for/against? A guy like Lapointe anyone know exactly what he does so we can judge it?

 

[Runner77]

The results of the team go on Bergevin. How are you judging the work Mellanby? Which moves was he for/against? A guy like Lapointe anyone know exactly what he does so we can judge it?

Six years of Mellanby, should his work not be subject to scrutiny? He's in a high level management position.

Look, if you know anything, since you're asking a lot of leading questions, share it. You're just asking a lot of questions. Did I say he had to get fired? I said he needed to have his performance reviewed and be held accountable.

High level management types are always subject to greater scrutiny and stringent performance reviews when results are abysmal. Or are you going to tell me that it's a "bs link"? At some point, even you can't deny how management types are held to account in such circumstances.

 

[habs03]

Six years of Mellanby, should his work not be subject to scrutiny? He's in a high level management position.

Look, if you know anything, since you're asking a lot of leading questions, share it. You're just asking a lot of questions. Did I say he had to get fired? I said he needed to have his performance reviewed and be held accountable.

High level management types are always subject to greater scrutiny and stringent performance reviews when results are abysmal. Or are you going to tell me that it's a "bs link"? At some point, even you can't deny how management types are held to account in such circumstances.

I agree 100% but that was not was we were original talking about

You made a comment similar to the one quoted below. Making a bs link: meaning saying he was only hired because MB played with his father. Nothing more than else then that.

Just saw his dad was friends of MB. I would love to see the twisted family tree that is the habs management.

 

[Runner77]

I agree 100% ...

We're going around in circles. You're harping on an isolated post that had no context. I provide context and you keep repeating what I originally posted.

I have invested too much time in this already. Believe what you want, it's not my job to convince you of anything. Have a good one.

 

[Habs76]

You're comment only points to the fact that he had more influence than the Czech scout; it doesn't in any way distinguish whether he, Timmins, or Churla had to do with the Mete pick.

I suspect all of them did. In two years, four players have been picked from his region, and all are on track or better than expected- where's the reason to fire him? There are two possibilities- either he has made good picks (Serg, Mete, Bitten) or he hasn't nee given the chance to. Neither deserves a firing.

 

[Runner77]

I suspect all of them did. In two years, four players have been picked from his region, and all are on track or better than expected- where's the reason to fire him? There are two possibilities- either he has made good picks (Serg, Mete, Bitten) or he hasn't nee given the chance to. Neither deserves a firing.

We've elaborated several scenarios in this thread that could have led to his firing. Could also be a contractual breach unrelated to performance, for instance.

 

[admiralcadillac]

I suspect all of them did. In two years, four players have been picked from his region, and all are on track or better than expected- where's the reason to fire him? There are two possibilities- either he has made good picks (Serg, Mete, Bitten) or he hasn't nee given the chance to. Neither deserves a firing.

Or he isn't the one that's responsible for those draft selections and the lack of selections are related to his poor performance as a scout? I feel like there are many other scenarios than the ones you presented.

 

[Habs76]

Or he isn't the one that's responsible for those draft selections and the lack of selections are related to his poor performance as a scout? I feel like there are many other scenarios than the ones you presented.

How can you have poor performance as a scout when you haven't drafted any players and haven't been around long enough to see any come to fruition?

 

[Habs76]

We've elaborated several scenarios in this thread that could have led to his firing. Could also be a contractual breach unrelated to performance, for instance.

Could have slept with Bergevin's wife, it's a possibility.

 

[admiralcadillac]

How can you have poor performance as a scout when you haven't drafted any players and haven't been around long enough to see any come to fruition?

You're only looking at it from one angle. He may have not given Timmins & co. advice that was sound enough for them to make selections based on his advice. Of course, what your saying is definitely possible as well, but considering there are a ton of players drafted out of Ontario every year, it's possible the lack of players drafted by the habs is due to poor scouting. It could, like you say, also be that Timmins and crew haven't listened to their scout. There are options here you're not discussing.

 

[Habs]

Lets hope marc crawford is next. That guy sucks the big one

 

[habs03]

I suspect all of them did. In two years, four players have been picked from his region, and all are on track or better than expected- where's the reason to fire him? There are two possibilities- either he has made good picks (Serg, Mete, Bitten) or he hasn't nee given the chance to. Neither deserves a firing.

Or after reviewing his list, he had those guys far below..

Just pointing out there are more than 2 possibilities you listed. He was a not a head scout or cross over( ones that scout all the leagues in juniors).

 

[habs03]

Lets hope marc crawford is next. That guy sucks the big one

Guessing you’re talking about his brother Eric

 

[Habs76]

Or after reviewing his list, he had those guys far below..

Just pointing out there are more than 2 possibilities you listed. He was a not a head scout or cross over( ones that scout all the leagues in juniors).

You're right it just seems early. Who knows if the guys he did like will also be successful?

 

[Habs76]

You're only looking at it from one angle. He may have not given Timmins & co. advice that was sound enough for them to make selections based on his advice. Of course, what your saying is definitely possible as well, but considering there are a ton of players drafted out of Ontario every year, it's possible the lack of players drafted by the habs is due to poor scouting. It could, like you say, also be that Timmins and crew haven't listened to their scout. There are options here you're not discussing.

4 players in two years is a lot. But yeah there are plenty of possibilities

 

[Habaneros]

hmmm..Mark Hunter from Ontario region eh???

 

[Habs76]

hmmm..Mark Hunter from Ontario region eh???

Can't imagine he'd join on as a scout when he left TOR for not being chosen as GM

 

[Habaneros]

Can't imagine he'd join on as a scout when he left TOR for not being chosen as GM

Wasnt he in charge of amateur and pro scouting for Toronto?

Hunter is a big scout...

 

[habs03]

4 players in two years is a lot. But yeah there are plenty of possibilities

I mean he said he already handed in his list and input so they clearly wanted his input.

I just thinking he was hired by Dudley and Timmins wanted someone else. Steve tweeted about Dudley teaching him to scout when he left for the Canes.

Which brings me to another thing with this Mark Hunter thing. Hunter is a big name and wants promote him to ast GM.

If Hunter comes in, who makes the call. Bergevin seemed to have handled Dudley/ Timmins well enough so maybe it’s doable

 

[Habaneros]

I mean he said he already handed in his list and input so they clearly wanted his input.

I just thinking he was hired by Dudley and Timmins wanted someone else. Steve tweeted about Dudley teaching him to scout when he left for the Canes.

Which brings me to another thing with this Mark Hunter thing. Hunter is a big name and wants promote him to ast GM.

If Hunter comes in, who makes the call. Bergevin seemed to have handled Dudley/ Timmins well enough so maybe it’s doable

If they do bring in Hunter.....then it is set up to fire alot of people if necessary....if it goes tank again in 2018-19...they could let tons of long time people go ....Hunter could take over stuff like scouting etc..that's is Hunters thing scouting....