Habs Draft Combine/Mini-camp

[Habaddict]

Well Keith Primeau was a 3rd overall pick in a year where the Top 5 all had a case to go 1st and all became excellent NHL players.

So no, he's not going to be as good as Primeau.

Remember, the Habs are picking 25th here. They'd be very fortunate to get an impact NHLer despite the strength of the draft. McCarron seems to be the type that will have an impact, if not offensively, then physically.

Yes. I think Primeau won the OHL scoring race in his draft year.

 

[Gally11]

- How realistic is McCarron with 1st round
- Fucale or Morin (depending on availability at 33rd)
- Morin or Comrie at 35th (if Fucale went).
- Is it possible for J. Subban to fall to ~55th?

Also am I crazy for wanting those at those positions haha.. Just seem to like what I read on them and we desperately need an up and coming #1 goalie in our system

 

[Whitesnake]

Hayden won't be going ahead of McCarron. Some of you guys are disappointing me with your evaluations...they're not even close.

I know people saw webcasts....Webcasts in general, but especially from one tournament, aren't a great way to judge a player in my opinion.

Grant, you do that for a living. We don't. Not sure how really you should be dissapointed with it. Yet, armchair scout, we give our best with what we have. True that webcats aren't the end of the world. Yet, for some who still like judging prospects, it's the only way. I used to go in some places before we had a team in Blainville, and now I can do there more often. Yet, I'm still an amateur at this. Don't be too harsh on people. We keep asking you for advices as far as this or that player...probably because we do know our limitations and appreciate your insights. But we still want to give our opinions....

I write all this 'cause my big freakin list is coming...so just in case you have the idea to bash me....

As far as McCarron is concern, why can't he be chosen top 20? Just because of how deep it is? Or is there really other concerns?

 

[Draft]

Grant, you do that for a living. We don't. Not sure how really you should be dissapointed with it. Yet, armchair scout, we give our best with what we have. True that webcats aren't the end of the world. Yet, for some who still like judging prospects, it's the only way. I used to go in some places before we had a team in Blainville, and now I can do there more often. Yet, I'm still an amateur at this. Don't be too harsh on people. We keep asking you for advices as far as this or that player...probably because we do know our limitations and appreciate your insights. But we still want to give our opinions....

I write all this 'cause my big freakin list is coming...so just in case you have the idea to bash me....

As far as McCarron is concern, why can't he be chosen top 20? Just because of how deep it is? Or is there really other concerns?

I qualify as an extremely amateur armchair scout and draft specialist

Grant brings a lot to this site, I'm jealous of him and what he gets the chance to do for a living. I am consigned to watching webcasts and the odd live game when I'm at home, I know full well Grant likely has a better idea of the players we're judging. However, I'll disagree with him and every other scout on the internet if my opinion is different from theirs and I'm confident enough in my interpretation of the players, hopefully he appreciates that. That's what is fun about hockey-blogging, having an opinion, well thought out or not!

So Grant, apologies if you take offence to my negative questioning of your opinions (particularly about McCarron), I know you work very hard to formulate them. Thanks for sticking around and putting up with us.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

- How realistic is McCarron with 1st round

If you base it on everyone but Grant, very very very possible. Grant has written he thinks McC could go even higher than 25.

- Fucale or Morin (depending on availability at 33rd)

Highly unlikely.

- Morin or Comrie at 35th (if Fucale went).

Comrie should be available early 2nd.

- Is it possible for J. Subban to fall to ~55th?

Yes, and you may even be able to wait until the 3rd, maybe even 86. I don't think teams will be all that interested in using a fairly high pick to get a 5'9'' defenceman no matter what his family name is.

 

[Guilliam]

There seems to be a big question mark over Hayen's skating. So that is at least one thing separating him and McCarron, I don't really know about the rest though (hands, hockey sense, etc.).

 

[Hannibal]

Grant,

How do you compare Tyler Biggs and McCarron? What are the differences?

 

[Scintillating10]

Very little in common other than size/skating ability. Gillies has zero offensive hockey sense and vision....McCarron has decent sense and ses the ice well. He was a good interview too, smart kid with a good head on his shoulders.

Hayden won't be going ahead of McCarron. Some of you guys are disappointing me with your evaluations...they're not even close.


I know people saw webcasts....Webcasts in general, but especially from one tournament, aren't a great way to judge a player in my opinion. I've had to do it with McCarron for the most part other than a couple of videos and TV appearances, but not just at the U-18....I've liked him every time I've seen him. You do not just judge these guys on performance....you have to project what you think they'll look like in the pro game in 3-4 years...you study their skating, sense, shot, puck skills, competitiveness..you take into account how much they improve during a season...you look at their size and body type, character. McCarron passes most of the tests.

Does he stickhandle like Drouin? No..but he's 6-5!! He handles the puck pretty well for a big man, has good vision, protects the puck well. Then you look at intangibles. He's strong, huge, tough, will fight, smart in school, good kid, liked by teammates.

The offense isn't there for McCarron. You're looking at 12 goal scorer in NHL. You have to have at least semi-offense. His 2nd year with US Dev team still .5 pts per game.

At 25, after watching Memorial Cup Petan is Giroux 2.0. If he played with MacKinnon he's even with Drouin.

 

[chaosrevolver]

The offense isn't there for McCarron. You're looking at 12 goal scorer in NHL. You have to have at least semi-offense. His 2nd year with US Dev team still .5 pts per game.

At 25, after watching Memorial Cup Petan is Giroux 2.0. If he played with MacKinnon he's even with Drouin.

McCarron in his final 27 GP: 11 G - 12 A - 23 PTS

He plays a smart game for his size which easily could make him a 20-25 goal scorer and 45-55 point guy in the NHL.

 

[CP31]

- How realistic is McCarron with 1st round
- Fucale or Morin (depending on availability at 33rd)
- Morin or Comrie at 35th (if Fucale went).
- Is it possible for J. Subban to fall to ~55th?

Also am I crazy for wanting those at those positions haha.. Just seem to like what I read on them and we desperately need an up and coming #1 goalie in our system

we don't "desperately" need an up and coming #1G, we have one who is 26.

 

[WeThreeKings]

- How realistic is McCarron with 1st round
- Fucale or Morin (depending on availability at 33rd)
- Morin or Comrie at 35th (if Fucale went).
- Is it possible for J. Subban to fall to ~55th?

Also am I crazy for wanting those at those positions haha.. Just seem to like what I read on them and we desperately need an up and coming #1 goalie in our system

1: Realistic but it also depends on who wins the cup. If L.A. or Boston win the cup, look for a team in the early 20s to take McCarron to emulate their model.
2: Fucale might be available at 33, but even then, at best he will be a less athletic version of Price with the same mannerisms and playing style, will be eaten up by media/fans here and will cause unnecessary drama.
3. Morin will go 1st round, teams always select big D that have some skating skills high.
Too early from Comrie at 35, again the drama, secondly, Comrie doesn't have the height that is coveted in NHL goalies these days and he's already had hip surgery.
4. Not only possible but would be a bad pick at 55.

 

[Runner77]

Amazed at how many McCarron experts there are on here, especially when he appeared on television a grand total of once in the past season. Most say they don't think he's a first rounder..now there's even someone going one better and saying he's overrated. The exact opposite is true - he is being severely underrated. You'll see on draft day.

He is the player I want the Habs to take at 25 if he's there. I see his upside as a second line 6-5 winger who can score 20-25 goals and 40-50 points and chip in 100-150 PIM's. Not many of them in the NHL folks.

On the issue of projectability, I will defer to a trained eye in a case such as this (especially one who has had live viewings) since McCarron's size is probably leading some of us to have pre-conceived ideas.

The only thing I don't quite grasp -- does McCarron project as a borderline 2nd liner, or would he be better pegged as having a third line ceiling?

 

[Scintillating10]

McCarron in his final 27 GP: 11 G - 12 A - 23 PTS

He plays a smart game for his size which easily could make him a 20-25 goal scorer and 45-55 point guy in the NHL.

Of all the drafted forwards 6'5- 6'6" and up, how many have ever come close to living up to their NHL expectations offensively? From Jessiman, Brian Boyle, Brad Winchester, Colbourne, Anthropov, Graham, Veilleux, to name a few.....Not one has come remotely close.

 

[Runner77]

I believe we should apply the same timeframe for development to oversized players, that we do for defensemen.

I don't know if it's a matter of lack of coordination, balance or some other factor, but clearly, when you invest in a bigger player, you also have to accept that his development cycle is likely to be closer to 5 years than it will be to say, a 2 or 3-year time frame. I suspect there would be more candidates that successfully make it to the NHL, if teams are willing to invest the greater time it takes, all other essential factors being present (work ethic, character, etc.).

 

[hogtownhabsfan*]

Yeah Rychel's skating is a really big red flag - that HP description is pretty generous, I've seen some other reports that weren't nearly as kind.

With McCarron, the big catch is his offensive upside and if he has any, basically.



Yeah but you can't play the 'once bitten, twice shy' game like that. Just because we got burned with Chipchura we should never try to go that route again? Not that I'm pushing for either Rychel or Hartman, they'd be a little ways down on my wishlist.

Rychel's skating isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

People really need to watch the tape when it's out there.

Got to 2:17



And watch the skill at 1:26

And the snipes all over the place.

We'll be LUCKY if he's there at 25. LUCKY.

 

[Guilliam]

Yeah his skating doesn't seem so bad. Judging by what posters say around here you'd think they wouldn't pick before our last 2nd.

I gues it all comes down to his attitude and work ethic to know if he could improve it a bit more.

 

[Whitesnake]

Yeah his skating doesn't seem so bad. Judging by what posters say around here you'd think they wouldn't pick before our last 2nd.

I gues it all comes down to his attitude and work ethic to know if he could improve it a bit more.

His skating isn't awful but it's not very good either. First steps included. Not the most agile feet. He will have to work on that but then, which prospect hasn't any work to do. Yet, he's a ND for me 1st round. Wouldn't mind 2nd round though but he'll be gone.

 

[Guilliam]

His skating isn't awful but it's not very good either. First steps included. Not the most agile feet. He will have to work on that but then, which prospect hasn't any work to do. Yet, he's a ND for me 1st round. Wouldn't mind 2nd round though but he'll be gone.

Really? I don't know but he has an amazing shot and he plays with some jam too, that's an intriguing package..

 

[Whitesnake]

Really? I don't know but he has an amazing shot and he plays with some jam too, that's an intriguing package..

I would agree that he has some things going for him. But evaluating a player isn't solely about watching the highlights. You actually can't do that. I can go back in time and get you highlights of every player that failed that looked like an all-star. Again, not saying Rychel will fail...but just that he's a ND for our 1st pick. Mind you, 2nd rounder isn't too far behind...There are reason why big powerforwards with skills and speed are actually not considered top 20 even if it's a great draft. But it could go either way. There were reason why Getzlaf and Perry went far in the 1st round and yet succeeded. But then there's a Bernier who looked real great in his draft year too.Eric Fehr looked real fine. Ryan Stone looked damn fine etc. Just trying to go on a projection here amongst the big boys that surely looked incredibly interesting but that maybe couldn,t provide what we're expecting from them.

 

[Guilliam]

I would agree that he has some things going for him. But evaluating a player isn't solely about watching the highlights. You actually can't do that. I can go back in time and get you highlights of every player that failed that looked like an all-star. Again, not saying Rychel will fail...but just that he's a ND for our 1st pick. Mind you, 2nd rounder isn't too far behind...

Yeah I know highlights only tell you so much but it's just that his skating seemed to be the only knock people have on him and it doesn't look so bad. And if there's something you can jugde pretty well from a highlight video. What would be you other concerns with him?

 

[hogtownhabsfan*]

He's not great defensively, but he's a winger. The bottom line is he has good size, great toughness, great skill, and is a solid skater. If he was a fringe skater I'd be concerned, but he's solid/average.

I mean imagine if Ryan White was a 25-30 goal scorer, with 30 something assists too. Or Lucic as a middleweight, though Rychels a better skater than Lucic. That's going to be Kerby Rychel IMO. I'm a big fan of his, I only hope he's there at 25....

 

[Bourdon101]

Yeah I know highlights only tell you so much but it's just that his skating seemed to be the only knock people have on him and it doesn't look so bad. And if there's something you can jugde pretty well from a highlight video. What would be you other concerns with him?

His production seemed linked to the presence of Khokhlachev, as he scored a lot more when he was there and there is some inconsistancy in his play. That would be my main concern other than skating, but I am one of the peaple who love his play, so I guess you might want to hear what others have to say.

By the way, I think the skating issues can be corrected. Skating is one aspect of a player that can be improved somewhat easily, and his skating issue when I see him is something due to his big body and technique, the latter can be improved.

 

[Guilliam]

He's not great defensively, but he's a winger. The bottom line is he has good size, great toughness, great skill, and is a solid skater. If he was a fringe skater I'd be concerned, but he's solid/average.

I mean imagine if Ryan White was a 25-30 goal scorer, with 30 something assists too. Or Lucic as a middleweight, though Rychels a better skater than Lucic. That's going to be Kerby Rychel IMO. I'm a big fan of his, I only hope he's there at 25....

His production seemed linked to the presence of Khokhlachev, as he scored a lot more when he was there and there is some inconsistancy in his play. That would be my main concern other than skating, but I am one of the peaple who love his play, so I guess you might want to hear what others have to say.

By the way, I think the skating issues can be corrected. Skating is one aspect of a player that can be improved somewhat easily, and his skating issue when I see him is something due to his big body and technique, the latter can be improved.

Thanks guys. There really are conflicting reports on him.

 

[Whitesnake]

Thanks guys. There really are conflicting reports on him.

In that case, just listen to the guys who has seen him live a few times. This is where you'll get your best reports. Professionnal ones who mostly look at way more than scoresheet, look at his stance, look at his overall IQ in all 3 zones, look at his effort level, has talked to his coach and entourage, how he conducts himself off the ice, his work ethic and so on. If you are able to get your hands on this, you will have a better feel.

 

[Jabba11]

Was Horvat invited to our Combine or I was hallucinating?