Habs Draft Combine/Mini-camp

[Andy]

I'm using Lucic as a catch-all but it can easily refer to guys I've mentioned in my earlier posts. The Clarksons, Bickells, Clowes, Backes', etc of the league. Obviously Lucic is on the high-end of that scale and a guy like Bickell is on the low-end, but considering how many people here are desperate for us to sign him in the off-season, why is it such a bad thing if we try to draft one for ourselves?

Makes sense.

 

[hototogisu]

The thing that still piss me of is that we choose Ben f***ing Maxwell one spot before Lucic.

Can someone give me a quick scouting report of Rychel and Hartman?
Thanks.

Sad thing is, Maxwell looked like a steal at the time. The Bruins had an insane draft that year - Kessel, Lucic and Marchand with 3 of their first 4 picks.

Hartman, from Hockey Prospect:

Ryan is hands down one of the hardest working players available in this 2013 NHL Entry Draft. He
was selected in the 5th Round of the 2010 OHL Priority Selection Draft out of the Chicago Mission
U16 program. Ryan opted to join the U.S. National Development Program and he has done an
outstanding job representing his country. He’s not even eligible to be drafted until June of this year
and he already owns a U17, U18 and U20 Gold medal for Team USA. He also posted a point per
game or better at both the World Under 17 Challenge and the IIHF U18 Championships. Due to his
late birth date, while many of his USNTDP teammates went on to be selected at the 2012 NHL Entry
Draft, Hartman weighed his options and chose to join the Plymouth Whalers this season. Ryan was in
tough heading into camp. Plymouth was loaded at forward with several NHL Picks. He started out on
the third line, but worked tremendously hard. By the time the trade deadline came and went, Ryan
was on Plymouth’s top line contributing on a nightly basis.

What we like most about Ryan is how hard he works every shift, every game. He plays whistle to
whistle and battles for every inch. He has a tenacious forecheck and forces tons of turnovers. He hits
and despite his average size, he packs a lot of power in his physical game. He has also shown a
willingness to drop the gloves from time to time. He competes hard in all three zones and will work
defensively creating turnovers and ending potential scoring chances against his team. Ryan was one
of Plymouth’s go to penalty killers and did an excellent job getting in passing lanes and sacrificing
his body to block shots. The only question for Hartman going forward is whether his offensive game
will translate at the next level. He shows good instincts in the offensive zone and is capable of
reacting quickly and staying patient with the puck. He has an above average shot and is capable of
creating plays not just with puck skills and hands, but also going back to his work ethic and just
wanting the puck more than the opposition. There’s little doubt that Ryan will be taken in the first
round of the NHL Draft. He’s a very popular player among scouts and he is highly regarded for his
character. While he projects to go in the late teens or early 20’s of the first round, a team that wants
him bad enough may not take a chance and take him earlier.

Quotable: “I can’t even put what I think of him into words, he’s just a hockey
player. He will go to a good team drafting late and be a star for years.†NHL
Scout

Quotable: “Ryan reminds me a bit of Andrew Shaw, he is a gamer and just gets it
done. He is a player that every coach wants on his team, and opposing coaches
hate to go up against.†- Mark Edwards

Rychel, also from HP:

It seems like Kerby has been a Spitfire forever, but he actually went through quite the journey to get
to where he was. Kerby was selected in the first round of the 2010 OHL Priority Selection Draft by
the Barrie Colts. From there he was traded to the Memorial Cup Host Mississauga St. Michael’s
Majors where he spent the first half of his rookie season. Kerby was then delt to the Windsor Spitfires
and finished his rookie season there. Due to his late birth date, he had one more year to go before he
was NHL Eligible and he passed the time quite effectively. As the Spitfires were looking to reload
their roster and get working towards a 2014 contender, Kerby was busy notching 41 goals as a
sophomore OHLer.

You can really see Kerby’s father Warren’s influence in his physical play. Warren was always known
as a hard working player and Kerby has seemed to learn from that. He finishes his checks very hard
whenever possible and generally played his best games on the bigger stages. Along with his physical
play, Kerby’s best asset has to be his shot. He’s not a fancy player who will stickhandle around
opposing players. You won’t see many highlight reel goals from Rychel. What you will see is a well
positioned forward who constantly seems to be in the right spot with a lethal release allowing him to
post back to back 40 goal seasons. Kerby is also willing to drop the gloves and has faired moderately
well. While Kerby looks like an NHL player it seems the biggest gap is what he is projected to be.
His shot suggests he could play a second line power forward type of role. His energy and board play
suggests he can play as a third pairing.

Whoever selects Rychel will look for him to improve his skating ability and become that true second
line power forward who can play physical and put the puck in the net while having a third line
grinder as the safety net if he doesn’t pan out the way they expect. With the Spitfires hoping to
acquire the 2014 CHL Memorial Cup, Kerby could be the go to guy on a very big stage next year. On
what should be a more improved team Kerby will continue to be the go to guy for the Spitfires, but
can make the jump to the AHL for the 2014-2015 season thanks to his late birth date.

Quotable: “When Kirby is on, he is very very good. He is best when he mixes in
physical lay and goes to the dirty areas.†- Mark Edwards

 

[Ezpz]

I'd rather trade down than trade up in this draft. Trade 25 for 49 and 50 from the Sharks or 43 + 59 from the Jets or 37 + 56 from the Oilers or 40 + 54 from Dallas.

 

[hey]

here is a scouting report I found on the net:

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/05/01/kerby-rychel-2013-nhl-player-profile-22/
http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/05/06/ryan-hartman-2013-nhl-draft-player-profile-26/

 

[AboveandBeyond]

Too much in a deep draft for a guy who's upside isn't all that tremendous. I like Horvat, but I'd rather deepen our pool in the 2013 draft than shallow it out with one selection that really isn't that sexy.

if the asking price is too much then i agree i don't think we should. If he miraculously slides to the 16-20 mark i say we pull the trigger and get him. From what i saw this year he should have a solid career ahead of him and could be a top 6 player easily.

 

[bud12]

Lucic wasn't Lucic in his draft year, or else he would have gone top ten. So how did the Bruins get him? They took a chance with a second rounder on a guy with questionable offensive upside. It's like that Gretzky saying about missing 100% of the shots you don't take - you'll never draft a Lucic if you're not even shopping in the right aisles.

This is what it always comes down to it seems - people want the Habs to get bigger and tougher but don't want to do the things it'll take to get there.

agree. I should have add "not a single prospect this year is like Lucic in his draft year". Even Wilson and Biggs aren't close.

 

[fredflag]

"Whoever selects Rychel will look for him to improve his skating ability"

Ouch!
Skating is the nerve of war.
Hartman look more promising. If we end up with a Callahan clone I would be happy. It depend where he is available.

Mccaron is intriguing really. I did not see him play but on paper he look good, so whats the catch?

 

[Teufelsdreck]

Sad thing is, Maxwell looked like a steal at the time. The Bruins had an insane draft that year - Kessel, Lucic and Marchand with 3 of their first 4 picks.

Hartman, from Hockey Prospect:
Rychel, also from HP:

The descriptions of those players in HP remind me of what was said about Chipchura, and what did he contribute to the Habs? (I wish they had taken Meszaros, for example.)

 

[Andy]

The Bruins as of right now pick 1 spot ahead of the Canadiens. Will be fun to read some reactions here.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The Bruins as of right now pick 1 spot ahead of the Canadiens. Will be fun to read some reactions here.

Nope. They are in the conference finals thus they are automatically slotted into the bottom 4 slots in the draft.

They also sacrificed their 1st round pick for Jagr.

 

[hototogisu]

"Whoever selects Rychel will look for him to improve his skating ability"

Ouch!
Skating is the nerve of war.
Hartman look more promising. If we end up with a Callahan clone I would be happy. It depend where he is available.

Mccaron is intriguing really. I did not see him play but on paper he look good, so whats the catch?

Yeah Rychel's skating is a really big red flag - that HP description is pretty generous, I've seen some other reports that weren't nearly as kind.

With McCarron, the big catch is his offensive upside and if he has any, basically.

The descriptions of those players in HP remind me of what was said about Chipchura, and what did he contribute to the Habs? (I wish they had taken Meszaros, for example.)

Yeah but you can't play the 'once bitten, twice shy' game like that. Just because we got burned with Chipchura we should never try to go that route again? Not that I'm pushing for either Rychel or Hartman, they'd be a little ways down on my wishlist.

 

[Andy]

Nope. They are in the conference finals thus they are automatically slotted into the bottom 4 slots in the draft.

They also sacrificed their 1st round pick for Jagr.

Well that's good. Thanks for the clarification. Would have been a good read.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

I'd rather trade down than trade up in this draft. Trade 25 for 49 and 50 from the Sharks or 43 + 59 from the Jets or 37 + 56 from the Oilers or 40 + 54 from Dallas.

Why wouldn't #25 be better than #49/50 or #40/54?

 

[le_sean]

Agreed. How many players in the NHL are like Lucic? None. Maybe Stewart shakehead) but no one else gets close IMO. I'm not sure there are any prospects in the entire NHL, let alone this draft, that are 6'5, physical, not painfully slow, good fighters and have top-6 upside and offensive ability. Unless I'm missing someone?

Mccaron isn't worth any of our first three picks IMO, he hasn't shown above average offensive ability in any of his years of playing.... he's expected to just suddenly have it once we draft him? Maybe Grant's throwing a smokescreen for Timmins?

Draft him and at worst you probably have a Jordan Nolan/Dwight King clone. At best you probably have Clarkson. These guys are valuable.

A good example is Tomas Holmstrom. Now he wasn't big, but his mere presence in front of the net in the playoffs made teams go crazy. He didn't always get a point, but he was often the cause of a goal.

Even simple things like a minute left in a one goal game, you have a guy like McCarron who just kills 30 seconds in the offensive zone by cycling the puck and not moving. It doesn't show up on the stat sheet, but these kinds of plays are huge.

 

[Ezpz]

Why wouldn't #25 be better than #49/50 or #40/54?

There could be little difference between the upside of the player at 25 and the two players you get with two second rounders.

 

[DJ Breadman]

just don't pick a bad skater, it's so important in todays game

 

[Draft]

Draft him and at worst you probably have a Jordan Nolan/Dwight King clone. At best you probably have Clarkson. These guys are valuable.

A good example is Tomas Holmstrom. Now he wasn't big, but his mere presence in front of the net in the playoffs made teams go crazy. He didn't always get a point, but he was often the cause of a goal.

Even simple things like a minute left in a one goal game, you have a guy like McCarron who just kills 30 seconds in the offensive zone by cycling the puck and not moving. It doesn't show up on the stat sheet, but these kinds of plays are huge.

Draft him and at worst he's in the ECHL. At best I don't see any more than a Bickell and even that's pushing it for me (Bickell was very good offensively in junior). He's not a no-draft but in no way would I pick him with our first three picks.

The difference between Holmstrom and McCarron is that former had shown offensive ability before being drafted. He was also scoring in the SEL before he ever came to the NHL. McCaron scored 17pts in 35gp in the USHL last year. Their styles are nothing alike either in terms of net presence, McCarron is nowhere close. If you want a Holmstrom-type, draft a Holmstrom-type.

Louis Leblanc can also waste 30sec off the clock with his high-end board play, Kristo can do it with his puck control and stick handling. The only benefit of him being so large, that a smaller player can't have, is that he won't get pushed around as much and he won't be mismatched in a fight.

Drafting McCarron is ONLY drafting for size IMO. He doesn't have good puck control skills, he isn't strong defensively (to make up for weak offence), he doesn't have great hockey IQ, he doesn't have a very good shot and he is only dominant physically because he is playing against players half of his size. Is there really anyone out there that believes he has good hockey skills?

If we're drafting a PWF, it's Justin Bailey all the way for me. I'd take him over McCarron 9/10.

 

[WeThreeKings]

just don't pick a bad skater, it's so important in todays game

Is it?

I watch the Bruins game and all I see is players who can't skate take their sticks and slow down the players who can. It gets let go the more important the game. Use interference to stop an offensive chance, Bruins did it all last night.

Skating is important.. in the regular season.

 

[odishabs]

For me, it's simple. With the 1st round pick take the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE. With our 3 picks in the 2nd round and two in the 3rd pick for needs, this also gives us a chance to sit back and see who slips in this draft, there will be plenty of 'off the board picks' that will create a couple of guys to slip (probably the 2 way dmen). Example... lets just say Lazar slips to our first.

1st - Curtis Lazar
2nd - Steve Santini
2nd - Justin Bailey
2nd - De La Rose
3rd - John Hayden
3rd - Mason Geertsen

 

[WeThreeKings]

For me, it's simple. With the 1st round pick take the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE. With our 3 picks in the 2nd round and two in the 3rd pick for needs, this also gives us a chance to sit back and see who slips in this draft, there will be plenty of 'off the board picks' that will create a couple of guys to slip (probably the 2 way dmen). Example... lets just say Lazar slips to our first.

1st - Curtis Lazar
2nd - Steve Santini
2nd - Justin Bailey
2nd - De La Rose
3rd - John Hayden
3rd - Mason Geertsen

As amazing it would be to have Lazar fall to us, it seems unlikely and I have to believe that Hayden goes before our 3rd.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

Is it?

I watch the Bruins game and all I see is players who can't skate take their sticks and slow down the players who can. It gets let go the more important the game. Use interference to stop an offensive chance, Bruins did it all last night.

Skating is important.. in the regular season.

This. Plus, guys like Bournival, Leblanc, Palushaj and Maxwell all are/were known as very good skaters. Still, they didn't, and won't make our team any better.

We have already more than enough quick skating guys. It's time we stop looking at that as the primary factor in selecting a player. This kind of logic made us pass on Giroux, and pick Maxwell before Lucic.

 

[dcyhabs]

Some guys can learn to skate, too. Not many players (John Leclair?) develop hands, hockey sense, grit, or physicality late in their development. Some do improve skating. If you get a guy with other attributes and improve his skating you can steal at the draft.

Hard to do, and risky, but worth it when it works out.

 

[montreal]

What made Sebastien Collberg considered a first round talent in 2012 compared to a guy like Justin Bailey who also appears to be a good skater with a good shot?

Collberg saw time in the SEL at 16 and was on the WJC U-20 as a 17 year old where he had a big tournament scoring 4 goals in 6 games, so he was highly visable to scouts for several years. I can't comment on Bailey though.

I'd rather trade down than trade up in this draft. Trade 25 for 49 and 50 from the Sharks or 43 + 59 from the Jets or 37 + 56 from the Oilers or 40 + 54 from Dallas.

to me it would all come down to who's on board and what it would cost to move up. If there's a player on board and they think they can move up for the right price, then do it. But if it cost's too much then stay pat, if they think they can get a better value deal then move down.

 

[Grant McCagg]

Draft him and at worst he's in the ECHL. At best I don't see any more than a Bickell and even that's pushing it for me (Bickell was very good offensively in junior). He's not a no-draft but in no way would I pick him with our first three picks.

The difference between Holmstrom and McCarron is that former had shown offensive ability before being drafted. He was also scoring in the SEL before he ever came to the NHL. McCaron scored 17pts in 35gp in the USHL last year. Their styles are nothing alike either in terms of net presence, McCarron is nowhere close. If you want a Holmstrom-type, draft a Holmstrom-type.

Louis Leblanc can also waste 30sec off the clock with his high-end board play, Kristo can do it with his puck control and stick handling. The only benefit of him being so large, that a smaller player can't have, is that he won't get pushed around as much and he won't be mismatched in a fight.

Drafting McCarron is ONLY drafting for size IMO. He doesn't have good puck control skills, he isn't strong defensively (to make up for weak offence), he doesn't have great hockey IQ, he doesn't have a very good shot and he is only dominant physically because he is playing against players half of his size. Is there really anyone out there that believes he has good hockey skills?

If we're drafting a PWF, it's Justin Bailey all the way for me. I'd take him over McCarron 9/10.

Bickell was very good offensively in junior? Not at McCarron's age....he wasn't half the prospect McCarron is at the same age. I saw Bickell lots..he was a dog at 17.

So the only thing you concede in his favour is that he's dominant physically..but only because he plays against guys who are 3-3 and 110 pounds. That's like deriding Crosby for being fast because his legs are bigger than everyone else's. Or saying "Sure..Stamkos is the best goal scorer in the NHL, but that's only because his wrists are so strong."

McCarron played against predominantly 19-21-year-olds and dominated them physically...you have to like his odds of being able to do that at any level when he's fully grown.

Is he the most skilled player in the draft? Of course not. How many 6-5 230 pound forwards are? But to say his skills are poor is simply wrong...skate and handles the puck well for a 6-5 guy..has some passing skills and a heavy wrist shot.

 

[Draft]

Bickell was very good offensively in junior? Not at McCarron's age....he wasn't half the prospect McCarron is at the same age. I saw Bickell lots..he was a dog at 17.

So the only thing you concede in his favour is that he's dominant physically..but only because he plays against guys who are 3-3 and 110 pounds. That's like deriding Crosby for being fast because his legs are bigger than everyone else's. Or saying "Sure..Stamkos is the best goal scorer in the NHL, but that's only because his wrists are so strong."

McCarron played against predominantly 19-21-year-olds and dominated them physically...you have to like his odds of being able to do that at any level when he's fully grown.

Is he the most skilled player in the draft? Of course not. How many 6-5 230 pound forwards are? But to say his skills are poor is simply wrong...skate and handles the puck well for a 6-5 guy..has some passing skills and a heavy wrist shot.

I'll absolutely concede the Bickell points, not entirely sure who I was thinking of, sorry about that.

You know exactly what I meant by "half the size" . He's dominating against players who have yet to develop like he has and I don't, personally, think that his dominance will translate to the NHL where there are other players with similar size/strength/balance. That's his entire game and his main selling point.

In terms of the bolded.... That proves my point for only drafting him because of his size and I don't think that's a good way to do things. That is just my opinion with this draft. He absolutely has a poor skill set for anyone under 6'3 and there's a good chance he will never be anything more than a Brandon Prust-style offensive threat. His size does not make up for his deficiencies with and without the puck. Is there the possibility that he suddenly jumps ahead with his offensive ability? Absolutely, big guys develop later. I just don't see the IQ or skill-potential to warrant picking him top-40. I haven't seen him "put it together" or even pique my interest with a play or shift yet. What do you see in him? Honest question, not being sassy.

Edit: ** I'm not saying I wouldn't pick him or that he's not a great prospect, I just don't see the top-6 upside.