Habs Draft Combine/Mini-camp

[Runner77]

Was Horvat invited to our Combine or I was hallucinating?

He was. And we're all hallucinating in a good way. He's the one player I'm hoping MB makes a move for. Hopefully he can be had in the 12-15 range.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Is it really worth it to trade up for Horvat.. who's ceiling seems to be an elite 2nd liner?

 

[QuebecPride]

Is it really worth it to trade up for Horvat.. who's ceiling seems to be an elite 2nd liner?

I would take Patrice Bergeron anytime of the day on my team.

 

[QuebecPride]

Was Horvat invited to our Combine or I was hallucinating?

He was even interviewed by the journalists there. Seems to me the Habs wanted people to know Horvat was there

 

[hototogisu]

I would take Patrice Bergeron anytime of the day on my team.

If there was some kind of guarantee that Horvat = Bergeron, I'd trade a whole bunch of picks to be able to draft him.

But there isn't. There's a real possibility that he might just be a good 3rd liner who had a phenomenal playoff run.

I like Horvat, but I'm not really in favor trading up for anyone who boosts their stock on one dream run like that.

 

[Draft]

If there was some kind of guarantee that Horvat = Bergeron, I'd trade a whole bunch of picks to be able to draft him.

But there isn't. There's a real possibility that he might just be a good 3rd liner who had a phenomenal playoff run.

I like Horvat, but I'm not really in favor trading up for anyone who boosts their stock on one dream run like that.

*Cough - Bickell

He had been improving consistently throughout the year though.

 

[QuebecPride]

If there was some kind of guarantee that Horvat = Bergeron, I'd trade a whole bunch of picks to be able to draft him.

But there isn't. There's a real possibility that he might just be a good 3rd liner who had a phenomenal playoff run.

I like Horvat, but I'm not really in favor trading up for anyone who boosts their stock on one dream run like that.

I understand. But he said he wouldn't move up to draft a guy who's ceiling is to become an Elite 2nd Center.

There's no guarantee in anything in the draft, but there's nothing wrong with drafting (by moving up) a guy that is not as dynamic as some, but oozes hockey sense and anticipation.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I understand. But he said he wouldn't move up to draft a guy who's ceiling is to become an Elite 2nd Center.

There's no guarantee in anything in the draft, but there's nothing wrong with drafting (by moving up) a guy that is not as dynamic as some, but oozes hockey sense and anticipation.

My issue is... is the difference between Bo Horvat and Poirier/Dauphin big enough that you risk losing another prospect of equal value to acquire Bo Horvat? I don't see the separation to be high enough. I'd trade our 1st and 2 2nds to get a guy like Lindholm but after that tier, it becomes a crap shoot for me, all really good players but none that scream must-have.

Say for a 2nd we're back in 2003.. Do you trade Mike Richards + Loui Eriksson to acquire Dustin Brown, Brent Seabrook or Zach Parise?

I don't. As good as those three players are.

I use those players because I believe Horvat goes in the 14 range and that's where Dustin Brown/Seabrook went.. Richards was 24th overall and Eriksson at 33.

Of course you could say what if it's Brown for Stewart and Mike Egener?
At the same token what if it's Richards and Eriksson for Robert Nilsson?

It's a big risk and I think in a deep draft, I take my darts and throw them at the board, hoping for 3 big hauls rather than 2.

 

[domdo345]

Some people need to realize something...
1) If Mccarron is on the verge to be ''the next Lucic'' (rediculous idea to always compare different players) he won't be there at 25. Let's be honest here, if a player is expected to have that kind of impact, he'll be taken much higher.

2) The current playoffs aren't helping our case to pick him neither. Big guys like Penner, Bickell, Lucic and Horton are probably raising Mccarron's stock.

 

[Grant McCagg]

Some people need to realize something...
1) If Mccarron is on the verge to be ''the next Lucic'' (rediculous idea to always compare different players) he won't be there at 25. Let's be honest here, if a player is expected to have that kind of impact, he'll be taken much higher.

2) The current playoffs aren't helping our case to pick him neither. Big guys like Penner, Bickell, Lucic and Horton are probably raising Mccarron's stock.

Who's been comparing him to Lucic? He's a big body with some toughness who might score a few goals. Better skills at the same age (skating especially), taller...not nearly as tough...few... if any are.

 

[QuebecPride]

My issue is... is the difference between Bo Horvat and Poirier/Dauphin big enough that you risk losing another prospect of equal value to acquire Bo Horvat? I don't see the separation to be high enough. I'd trade our 1st and 2 2nds to get a guy like Lindholm but after that tier, it becomes a crap shoot for me, all really good players but none that scream must-have.

Say for a 2nd we're back in 2003.. Do you trade Mike Richards + Loui Eriksson to acquire Dustin Brown, Brent Seabrook or Zach Parise?

I don't. As good as those three players are.

I use those players because I believe Horvat goes in the 14 range and that's where Dustin Brown/Seabrook went.. Richards was 24th overall and Eriksson at 33.

Of course you could say what if it's Brown for Stewart and Mike Egener?
At the same token what if it's Richards and Eriksson for Robert Nilsson?

It's a big risk and I think in a deep draft, I take my darts and throw them at the board, hoping for 3 big hauls rather than 2.

That's a way to look at it.

Depends also how you rate the given player and how high you are on his assets. To me, there's a clear cut after 15 in terms of quality, and Horvat is part of that top15. Afterwards, and I've been pretty vocal(or lyrical) about it, from players 15 to 50, you're going to have similar value.

Odds are players that are ranked top15 for the Habs will fall lower than they expected, and that's why we might see them move up.

I would be as happy if they stay put though, as as you said, the more picks the merrier

 

[Et le But]

Who's been comparing him to Lucic? He's a big body with some toughness who might score a few goals. Better skills at the same age (skating especially), taller...not nearly as tough...few... if any are.

Besides that, the "next Lucic" is more or less impossible to project. Lucic could have easily ended up a goon.

If anything McCarron has "safer" offensive upside but expecting both Lucic level toughness and offensive upside means everything going right.

 

[chaosrevolver]

McCarron isn't as tough as Lucic for sure. He's a big body that is great at shielding the puck, at winning battles and in front of the net. He uses his size intelligently in the offensive zone so that his potential is maximized.

Reminds me more of Backes if we are going to go with anyone. Or a more offensive Bickell.

Just read this scouting profile on him:

He isn’t the flashiest player on the ice, but you shouldn’t expect such a tall player to have hands like Bobby Orr. He does, however, know his strengths and utilizes them to his advantage. McCarron is effective in front of the net, where he uses his body to shield the keeper’s line-of-sight and bang in any pucks in and around the net.

Michael’s skating is adequate, but has continually improved since he first suited up for Team USA. His board play really sticks out, mainly because it’s so hard to win a battle against him in the corner. Given his size and weight advantage, he is known for his physical play in all three zones. McCarron’s wingspan helps his puck control and his shot is well above average.

So he's a big winger who knows his strengths and limits and incorporates them into his game, with improving skating, very good board play, physicality and a great shot..

His season also improved greatly as it went on (see the stats that were posted earlier).

 

[NLHabsFan]

McCarron isn't as tough as Lucic for sure. He's a big body that is great at shielding the puck, at winning battles and in front of the net. He uses his size intelligently in the offensive zone so that his potential is maximized.

Reminds me more of Backes if we are going to go with anyone. Or a more offensive Bickell.

Just read this scouting profile on him:



So he's a big winger who knows his strengths and limits and incorporates them into his game, with improving skating, very good board play, physicality and a great shot..

His season also improved greatly as it went on (see the stats that were posted earlier).

I really want McCarron, I just hope he is there at 34.

 

[domdo345]

Who's been comparing him to Lucic? He's a big body with some toughness who might score a few goals. Better skills at the same age (skating especially), taller...not nearly as tough...few... if any are.

Not calling you out, don't take it personal. You know many ppl on this board have been talking about lucic like every 6'4+ are playing like him. I am just saying that if it was the case, this guy would be taken top 10 without hesitation. For all we know, and you might know better than ous, this guy will be taken higher than 25 just like Tom Wilson was taken higher than projected last year. Big guys doing well in playoffs are making their own trend.

 

[Grant McCagg]

McCarron would have gone higher than 25 LAST YEAR...........but this is a deeper draft. There were no 6-4 50-goal scorers last year (Mantha) that may have been available at 25 either.

 

[WeThreeKings]

McCarron would have gone higher than 25 LAST YEAR...........but this is a deeper draft. There were no 6-4 50-goal scorers last year (Mantha) that may have been available at 25 either.

Well, Mantha was real close to being eligible last year.

 

[Grant McCagg]

Well, Mantha was real close to being eligible last year.

Okay...did he score 50 last year?

 

[V-2 Schneider]

Grant,

Are you convinced that McCarron is not the next Turner Stevenson? He can turn well and has soft hands?

 

[Draft]

Okay...did he score 50 last year?

I'm not sure where I stand with the production based on age debate. Based on his numbers and size, it seems that Mantha would have been drafted last year as one of the youngest players in the draft. However, he wouldn't have been 1st round IMO. So, based on his jump in production, there's a chance he would have been seen as a steal if he'd been chosen later last year. If you measure his numbers from this year against the players in the older draft year, he still measures up very well. Maybe it needs to be averaged out between his two years. 36 goals, 70pts and his physical tools/size still put him in the debate for the first round IMO. If you've got faith in Mantha as a project and not as a finished product, he's a very enticing pick and player.



Also, Grant, wondering if you're doing/have done a pre-draft list with TSN as you did last year. It was a great read.

 

[Ice Poutine]

Are you convinced that McCarron is not the next Turner Stevenson? ...

Ah...Turner Stevenson. I miss his hands of stone, his total absence of puck control and that "deer in the headlights" look whenever he had said puck in the offensive zone.

Good times i tell ya, good times...

 

[Whitesnake]

People should calm down with the search of the next Lucic. In his draft year, Lucic was a terrible skater, not a lot of agility. So if the idea is to get the next Lucic, you need to search for a big punishing fighting with okay hockey skills and bad footspeed and agility. Lucic became Lucic not in his draft year....but the fact that he probably developed better than most of the prospects after he was drafted. If you are looking for the next Lucic, the Lucic we know now, he wouldn't be available as he'd probably go top 5.

I guess that's what the Oilers tried to accomplish last year when they drafted the great Mitch Moroz...you know the pick that most people laughed about. We still don't know how that will turn out but that was surely the idea behind it. There's some incredible projections as far as those types of players are concerned, especially when they are not already developed into a "2013 Lucic" in their respective draft year.

But if, again, the idea is to get a Lucic, the common denominator is that you find a guy who's alraedy great at fighting....and wonder if you can transform him (though he has to already have it in him) into a hockey player. Lucic had showed some things in that department but incredibly developed afterwards. Great call by Boston with a little bit of skilled pick, development talent and little bit of luck. Like most prospects not chosen top picks.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Okay...did he score 50 last year?

No. I wouldn't have taken him in the first last year and i definitely wouldn't this year. Hopefully timmins is not enamored with a guy who is big bodied but doesn't know how to use it. Id rather mccaroon as if he doesn't develop his offensive side there is use for him in the bottom six.

 

[Bob b smith]

I trust Bergevin to have a good grasp of what it takes when evaluating the draft of a big power forward... While he was on Chicago's staff, they had a few significant misses trying to get the next big mean power forward... Kyle Beach, Akim Aliu...

 

[overlords]

Try to keep the draft oriented talk to the draft thread, guys. I know it might be easy to confuse the two, but we're just trying to keep news about who is attending the combine here.