Post-Game Talk: Habs blow lead. Lose 6-3 to Leafs

[McGuires Corndog]

Interesting data. Which apparently is not being followed by the pros who believe that "anything can happen" so long as you make the playoffs.

Most of the pros don’t get it right anyway. Plus there’s added pressure in most markets to merely “make the playoffs” so the adage that “anything can happen” is essentially just a one liner to sell it to the fans.

We don’t have a bad team, but it’s also not a contending team. We are closer to being sellers than buyers(if the GM has half a brain), IMO.

The only trade that should be entertained is a hockey trade that improves our LD or that brings in a legitimate PPG player with term. On the sell front, only overpayments should be considered.

We have the best prospect pool we’ve had in ten years, we need to be patient another 2-3 years and either go for it or re-tool by selling off vets at that point and rebuild around KK, Suzuki, Brook, Romanov, Poehling that will all still be under 25.

The main danger right now is that our top prospects are all under 20 and our best players (Weber, Price, Petry) are considerably on the wrong side of 30. It won’t be hard to miss the contention window as some of our vets are not far away from expiration.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

No player in history has produced 70 points and was a minus.

Kane was playing center because the Hawks were weak at C and strong on w.

Same for Giroux and lol @ thinking Giroux is bad defensively.

You sure of that?

Both Mike Green and EK have been negative on a 70+ point season.

/Factchecking...

Yeah that sounded like a non verified fact.

Not Green, but EK in 13-14, -15 and 74pts, and last season, -25 62 points in 71 games (prorates above 70 pts on 82 games)

Guesses from the top of my head.

Id have to guess there are a few more cases.

Edit... what bout Burns...

15-16, 75pts and -5 for Burns

 

[Mrb1p]

You sure of that?

Both Mike Green and EK have been negative on a 70+ point season.

/Factchecking...

Yeah that sounded like a non verified fact.

Not Green, but EK in 13-14, -15 and 74pts, and last season, -25 62 points in 71 games (prorates above 70 pts on 82 games)

Guesses from the top of my head.

Id have to guess there are a few more cases.

Edit... what bout Burns...

70 es points then

 

[Born in 1909]

We are currently 11th. Only one team since 1980 won the cup while finishing at this position or lower.

Nice.

Long-term historical stats are the most informative.

Your post is mandatory reference as to what a GM should do at trade deadline.

Not the Habs year.

The Leafs? Well they do sit 6th after last night's fiasco....

 

[RealityBytes]

You need a good mix of different styles of players to be successful in the playoffs, see Washington. I don't see many unsung heroes on that TML roster and I don't see much in terms of intimidation factor either, they don't even hit. Last night you could see our smaller forwards not caring about contact and Domi flattening a biger softer player, when was the last time you saw us deliever a open ice hit like that? They are to quote MT, "soff". The pp's wont come in the playoffs and they are in trouble and I know that leaf fans come here and read and comment, big deal! They have the talent, no dispute there but no sand paper at all.

Actually, Andreas Johnsson is 5'10 181 lbs, Domi is 5'10 193 lbs. Johnsson is smaller than Domi.

Still, grit is good as long as it doesn't pick up unnecessary penalties.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Nice.

Long term historical stats are the most informative.

Your post is mandatory reference as to what a GM should do at trade deadline.

Not the Habs year.

The Leafs? Well they sit 6th after last night's fiasco....

Historical odds of winning cup at our position (or worst)

1 in 40

Odds for the draft lottery of getting a top 3 pick by the 17th place in the standings

1 in 30

 

[admiralcadillac]

Nice.

Long-term historical stats are the most informative.

Your post is mandatory reference as to what a GM should do at trade deadline.

Not the Habs year.

The Leafs? Well they do sit 6th after last night's fiasco....

Are you guys still acting as if Bergevin is giving the farm away tomorrow? He’s never done that.

 

[OldCraig71]

Actually, Andreas Johnsson is 5'10 181 lbs, Domi is 5'10 193 lbs. Johnsson is smaller than Domi.

Still, grit is good as long as it doesn't pick up unnecessary penalties.

I would have to see Domi measured in real life before I believed inflated measurements, that guy is tiny.

 

[Kimota]

Was looking at Petry in the first period and he looked like freaking Larry Robinson, he was a an offense juggernaut. I was like wow we may have solved our PP problem. But in the next two periods, especially after the Leafs' third goal, I saw the same man having the puck with a lot of less jump to his game, very tentative, making mistakes. And it was back to good old Petry between good and average. It's crazy what's between the ears can do to a guy. It is so clearly Petry's biggest flaw, it was so obvious and how the man had changed in one period like going from Hulk to Banner. If he would be a little bit more confident, he would be Paul Coffey.

 

[calder candidate]

No player in history has produced 70 points and was a minus.

Kane was playing center because the Hawks were weak at C and strong on w.

Same for Giroux and lol @ thinking Giroux is bad defensively.

You have reading comprenhison issues... or your perception is probably skew because other conversation we had.
You ask me to name 70pts center that were move to the wing I have never said the were bad defensively... Also never said we should move Domi to the wing right now either...
But If you understand that you can move player like Giroux and Kane in the lineup to improve the team than why can’t you understand that it isn’t crazy to Think that Domi could be move back to the wing at some point, you do not have to agree but I think that I have made a sound argument if you don’t agree make a argument please stop trying to twist what I’m saying to try to redicule me or moving the goal post to start a different debate...
Has for you claim that no 70pts player in history ever finish a minus on top of my head there is Ovechkin... and I know he score a bunch on the PP, but also a perfect example, defense has to become a factor at some point regardless how many point you have if you want to win.

 

[Peiskos]

While watching the game last night we were asking.

The leafs added Tavares, Kapenen, Muzzin ans Johnson.

Are they playing any better than they were last season? If so ...its extremely marginal.

Meh..Leafs finished 6th overall last season and are going to finish within the top 10 again this season (currently sit 6th overall again), isn’t that all one could ask for in the regular season? With so much parity it’s difficult to remain even within the top 10 standings in today’s NHL.

 

[Mrb1p]

You have reading comprenhison issues... or your perception is probably skew because other conversation we had.
You ask me to name 70pts center that were move to the wing I have never said the were bad defensively... Also never said we should move Domi to the wing right now either...
But If you understand that you can move player like Giroux and Kane in the lineup to improve the team than why can’t you understand that it isn’t crazy to Think that Domi could be move back to the wing at some point, you do not have to agree but I think that I have made a sound argument if you don’t agree make a argument please stop trying to twist what I’m saying to try to redicule me or moving the goal post to start a different debate...
Has for you claim that no 70pts player in history ever finish a minus on top of my head there is Ovechkin... and I know he score a bunch on the PP, but also a perfect example, defense has to become a factor at some point regardless how many point you have if you want to win.

Oh sure man, it's a fair argument when you have a guy like Couturier and a guy like Nolan Patrick... We have a guy like Nolan Patrick, but we don't have Couturier.

Also our LW depth looks like this: Drouin, Tatar, Byron, Scraps.
Our RW depth looks like this: Gally, Shaw, Lekhonen, Armia

Want to know how the winger depth for Philly looks on the left side ?

 

[Mrb1p]

Was looking at Petry in the first period and he looked like freaking Larry Robinson, he was a an offense juggernaut. I was like wow we may have solved our PP problem. But in the next two periods, especially after the Leafs' third goal, I saw the same man having the puck with a lot of less jump to his game, very tentative, making mistakes. And it was back to good old Petry between good and average. It's crazy what's between the ears can do to a guy. It is so clearly Petry's biggest flaw, it was so obvious and how the man had changed in one period like going from Hulk to Banner. If he would be a little bit more confident, he would be Paul Coffey.

Thats insulting to Larry by quite a bit, he's probably the best defensive Dman the world has seen, or if he's not, he's in the top 5.

 

[OldCraig71]

Thats insulting to Larry by quite a bit, he's probably the best defensive Dman the world has seen, or if he's not, he's in the top 5.

The Big Bird was something else. I had a poster of him with both feet off the ice while checking a player into the glass, I loved him. He was also not scared of anyone either, that man could defend himself, a pure gem.

I added this to cheer myself up after last nights collapse, go easy on me. The big three!

 

[PaulD]

Meh..Leafs finished 6th overall last season and are going to finish within the top 10 again this season (currently sit 6th overall again), isn’t that all one could ask for in the regular season? With so much parity it’s difficult to remain even within the top 10 standings in today’s NHL.

Sure if all you look at is the standings. I dont watch them enough. But I watched last night and no I dont see a Stanley Cup contender. Which living in the Toronot area they were the favorites in Jult after signing LT. Vegas had them the favorites. Leafs fans today are saying they are disappointed and questioning whether they need a coaching change.

If the Habs added JT would you expect then to be just another bubble team next year or would you expect a major improvement?

I for one thought the leafs would be battling for first over all in the east after signing JT. Im surprised they are not even close.

 

[Mrb1p]

The Big Bird was something else. I had a poster of him with both feet off the ice while checking a player into the glass, I loved him. He was also not scared of anyone either, that man could defend himself, a pure gem.

I added this to cheer myself up after last nights collapse, go easy on me. The big three!

Buncha beauts.

 

[26Mats]

Game summary:

Without the lucky bounce that led to the Nylander free-by, it's 3-3 with 1:50 left.
We lost the special teams battle 2-0.
We won the game 5 on 5 3 - 1 (forget the empty netters.)

Conclusion: we need to get the power play on track. it's do-able.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I would have to see Domi measured in real life before I believed inflated measurements, that guy is tiny.

He is small. But it really doesn’t matter. He’s that kid in highschool knocking out other kids who’re half a foot taller. You don’t mess with these kind of guys. His father was the same way. He’s not 5’11 tho. More like 5’8-5’9.

 

[OldCraig71]

He is small. But it really doesn’t matter. He’s that kid in highschool knocking out other kids who’re half a foot taller. You don’t mess with these kind of guys. His father was the same way. He’s not 5’11 tho. More like 5’8-5’9.

He initiated most of what happened last night though, he does not need to develop a reputation for this, we need him available for every shift, one of our best players.

 

[Runner77]

The main danger right now is that our top prospects are all under 20 and our best players (Weber, Price, Petry) are considerably on the wrong side of 30. It won’t be hard to miss the contention window as some of our vets are not far away from expiration.

GM is on record, saying he doesn't believe in contention windows. We're going to have to dinosaur this until the finish line.

 

[calder candidate]

Oh sure man, it's a fair argument when you have a guy like Couturier and a guy like Nolan Patrick... We have a guy like Nolan Patrick, but we don't have Couturier.

Also our LW depth looks like this: Drouin, Tatar, Byron, Scraps.
Our RW depth looks like this: Gally, Shaw, Lekhonen, Armia

Want to know how the winger depth for Philly looks on the left side ?

Again never said I would move Domi to the wing right now, clearly we are are a better with him at center. KK isn’t ready for #1 duty and we don’t have other NHL center. We are pretty deep on the wing but we don’t have a lot of top end talent and most of are winger have spend time on the opposite wing so if you can’t play Domi on the RW you could move one of Drouin or Tatar.

But again your argument actually prove my point Philly moved Giroux he was a 70+pts center, Are all the other center better than Giroux, No. You play the player where he is the most useful to the team, to get the best lineup, the gain from Giroux to the wing was bigger than is lost at center. Right now Domi is best at center but if KK keep improving, a prospect like Poehling plays is way in the top 9 or we sign a guy like Duchene (Don’t think we should) but if something like that happen than moving Domi is probably our best option. Since moving Domi make more sense than moving KK Danault or any other that would insert at center kind a like Philly.

 

[nhlfan9191]

He initiated most of what happened last night though, he does not need to develop a reputation for this, we need him available for every shift, one of our best players.

I completely agree. I just grew up next to guys whose physical and intimidating factor far out matched their height and weight. Domi is a mean mother f*****. Not trying to defend him being undisciplined.

 

[Runner77]

He initiated most of what happened last night though, he does not need to develop a reputation for this, we need him available for every shift, one of our best players.

Domi should have waited til the game's outcome was more assured, before pulling his antics. Whatever it is he was trying to do, blew up in his face when the guy he had been taunting, scored on top of of it all and gave it back to him in spades.

 

[Miller Time]

I disagree with agreeing to disagree.

Seriously, what happens in April is going to go a long way towards defining the Leafs, one way or another. If they can't win at least one round, probably two, the patience of that fan base will start imploding with calls for Babcock's firing. Their youth doesn't have the luxury of developing slowly and linearly, with the cap and media pressure pulling in the opposite direction.

Yes, if they have a short Po run it will lead to a lot of pressure/criticism...

And why? I would argue it's precisely because they are heavy favorites to contend for a cup... Fans, media, Vegas odds-makers (whose only bias is to make money on the odds they put out)... All can see that their current roster clearly positions them as a top contender.

 

[OldCraig71]

Domi should have waited til the game's outcome was more assured, before pulling his antics. Whatever it is he was trying to do, blew up in his face when the guy he had been taunting, scored on top of of it all and gave it back to him in spades.

I might be considered old school for what I am about to say. I am not a fan of cocky behavior at any point and time from hockey players, I like to see respect for the opponent, sports are unprdictable and things can always go either way, be humble but be strong and respect your opponent. We don't need a Brad Marchand clone here.