Post-Game Talk: Habs blow lead. Lose 6-3 to Leafs

[Runner77]

Mete with the cup winner.

The way Mete's going, he'll be a cup winner all right.

 

[Lshap]

I didnt "tell you anything" I asked are they better? If so, marginally. Its a topic worth bringing up. Fan 590 did an entire morning show on it.

Yes adding Tavares would make a team far better. But check their record compared to last year. Its worth debating

and if they go out to The Bruins in the first round again. "Better" aint doing any better.

Leafs lost Van Riemsdyk along with his 36 goals. They've also lost a substantial number of goals from Kadri, whose production has dropped since being demoted. On the plus side, they added Tavares (obviously) and Kapanen has been very good.

Bottom line is that the Leafs have seen a bump in GF this season, but every team has. They've scored 17 more goals scored than they had last year at the same 61 game point, yet they're ranked exactly the same at 4th best. That's very good, but it's not progress relative to the league. Their other key numbers are mostly unchanged from 2017/18. GA is almost identical (171 down from 173). Special teams have marginal improvements, Goaltending stats are almost identical.

 

[PaulD]

Leafs lost Van Riemsdyk along with his 36 goals. They've also lost a substantial number of goals from Kadri, whose production has dropped since being demoted. On the plus side, they added Tavares (obviously) and Kapanen has been very good.

Bottom line is that the Leafs have seen a bump in GF this season, but every team has. They've scored 17 more goals scored than they had last year at the same 61 game point, yet they're ranked exactly the same at 4th best. That's very good, but it's not progress relative to the league. Their other key numbers are mostly unchanged from 2017/18. GA is almost identical (171 down from 173). Special teams have marginal improvements, Goaltending stats are almost identical.

Well said.
The JVR and role change for Kadri point to explaining what they lost. Tavares, Johnson all season, Kapenen all season, Muzzin fresh addition, point to what they added. Im just saying when they signed JT the parade plans were on. Taking first place from Tbay and avoiding the Bruins in round one was a goal for fans. Now its no different than last season, can they win a round......

So the question is legit. Why are they not a much improved team. Leaf fans are asking it. Go to their board, they are looking hard at Babcock. Not saying I agree. But I am not surprised one bit that they many of them are showing their disappointment.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

meh I still say we will win a cup before Toronto does even with their core that first period last night was awesome. I don't think either of these teams will be a cup winner anytime soon

 

[Miller Time]

Until the Leafs dominate in the regular season or the the playoffs, they remain second-tier. As of today they've done neither. For now, the only place they've dominated is the media.

Agree to disagree

 

[Captain Mountain]

Our star is between the pipes and he didn't show up last night. When Andersen allows 3 goals in the 1st period, you take advantage of that bc he's rarely off his game, especially to Montreal. And they didn't. Not sure where their fire went after the first period but someone needs to step up and be a leader in that situation.

It wasn't just that. When Matthews, Marner and Tavares elevated their pace and started creating, Montreal had no pushback. They just didn't have the raw ability to push back. Price could have been better, but the 1st goal was Matthews with space and he might have the most deceptive release in the game. You cant leave him there. The 2nd was a streaking Ennis left alone. The 3rd was because of a bad seam on the boards that fooled everyone but Nylander.

Price could have been better, but Montreal just isn't good enough. They had their chances but they need superstars of their own. A guy like Drouin isn't the answer.

 

[PaulD]

Hilarious

 

[PaulD]

He’s been the same lazy / defense is optional / highly skilled player since junior. Just now he doesn’t get away with being more skilled than everyone

nailed it !

 

[sampollock]

Blowing 3 goal lead , shows this team is missing a stongs defense to shut down the attack

 

[PaulD]

Was at the game. Lots of little observations, but the big thing is Montreal's lack of star power.

Hopefully Bergevin stays off the rental market, because he's not going to be able to get the help he needs.

Im having a flashback from a game you were at in 015. Then you posted the next day.

 

[PaulD]

Leafs lost Van Riemsdyk along with his 36 goals. They've also lost a substantial number of goals from Kadri, whose production has dropped since being demoted. On the plus side, they added Tavares (obviously) and Kapanen has been very good.

Bottom line is that the Leafs have seen a bump in GF this season, but every team has. They've scored 17 more goals scored than they had last year at the same 61 game point, yet they're ranked exactly the same at 4th best. That's very good, but it's not progress relative to the league. Their other key numbers are mostly unchanged from 2017/18. GA is almost identical (171 down from 173). Special teams have marginal improvements, Goaltending stats are almost identical.

How about the Islanders. Any changes in their seasons from last one to this one?

 

[Mrb1p]

200ft game doesn’t matter just like it doesn’t matter how many goal you score if the other team is aways able to score more.

Thats bs. No team in the league has done that crap. Can you name me one 70 points center that was moved to the wing ?

 

[Lshap]

Agree to disagree

I disagree with agreeing to disagree.

Seriously, what happens in April is going to go a long way towards defining the Leafs, one way or another. If they can't win at least one round, probably two, the patience of that fan base will start imploding with calls for Babcock's firing. Their youth doesn't have the luxury of developing slowly and linearly, with the cap and media pressure pulling in the opposite direction.

 

[Lshap]

How about the Islanders. Any changes in their seasons from last one to this one?

They're the Bad News Bears. Their GA numbers are freakin unbelievable! And it's not just Lehner playing out of his mind -- Greise is just as good. I still can't accept them being a legit contender, but I said the same thing about Vegas. NYI are a great story.

 

[1909]

They're the Bad News Bears. Their GA numbers are freakin unbelievable! And it's not just Lehner playing out of his mind -- Greise is just as good. I still can't accept them being a legit contender, but I said the same thing about Vegas. NYI are a great story.

Everything is falling in place for them... And they have a great coach too.

 

[NotProkofievian]

They're the Bad News Bears. Their GA numbers are freakin unbelievable! And it's not just Lehner playing out of his mind -- Greise is just as good. I still can't accept them being a legit contender, but I said the same thing about Vegas. NYI are a great story.

I thought they would be competitive at least, and that the narrative behind Tavares leaving (they had 8 years to surround him and they couldn't do anything) was transparently horse-shit. JT mailed it in for his last year, Snow was either under pressure from ownership to not trade him, or he was just plain stupid. Still, that potential moron built a pretty good team, even with a player such as JT just walking away.

 

[Laurentide]

That doesn't make them a fraud that just means better teams are doing what they should be doing - beating them.

Did you think your post through?

The guys on the ice are trying. The fraud is being perpetrated by Bergevin and Molson. They're trying to convince people that the raison d'etre fir this team has not changed since Sam Pollock was around but it's a lie. The crime here isnt that the Habs dont win championships anymore, it's that they aren't even TRYING to win them anymore. Bergevin's plan isnt ti work toward winning a Cup; it's to be just good enough to keep the critics off his back and keep his job. Molson just wants to keep the money rolling in. That's the fraud.

 

[LaP]

Well, you have a ~3.3% chance to win the draft lottery as the first team out of the playoffs. You have a ~6.25% chance to win the Cup if you make the playoffs.

To my knowledge since there's 16 teams making the playoffs only 4 teams (LA twice, Pens and NJ) won the cup while finishing lower then 8 in the league. But they all had made changes during the season.

- LA fired the coach, acquired Carter and promoted Voynov from the AHL during the season they won their first cup.
- NJ finished 10th in a 48 games season so not really 100% legit
- The Pens fired Therrien during the season they won their first cup and also acquired Kunitz and Guerin during the season
- During LA 2nd cup run the only change they made was acquiring Gaborik but he had a very good playoffs run with 22 points in 26 games

Here's the position in the league of the cup winner since 80 (16 teams making the playoffs) :

80: 5th
81: 1st
82: 1st
83: 6th
84: 1st
85: 2nd
86: 7th (Mtl)
87: 1st
88: 3rd
89: 1st
90: 5th
91: 7th
92: 6th
93: 6th (Mtl)
94: 1st
95: 10th (NJ - 48 games season so standings not really legit)
96: 3rd
97: 5th
98: 3rd
99: 1st
00: 4th
01: 1st
02: 1st
03: 4th
04: 2nd
05: no cup
06: 3rd
07: 3rd
08: 1st
09: 9th (Pens - fired Therrien during the season and acquired Kunitz and Guerin)
10: 3rd
11: 8th
12: 13th (LA - fired the coach, acquired Carter and promoted Voynov from the AHL)
13: 1st
14: 9th (LA - acquired Gaborik)
15: 7th
16: 4th
17: 2nd
18: 6th

Personally i think betting on winning a cup while finishing outside of the top 8 and making no change is being a very bad manager. If you're out of the top 8 you should plan for next year unless you can make significant changes at the deadline.

We are currently 11th. Only one team since 1980 won the cup while finishing at this position or lower.

 

[Runner77]

Bergevin traded Pacioretty and waived Plekanec, Alzner and Schlemko. He avoided buying another mediocre UFA or trading for a veteran. ...

All for giving Bergevin credit for the results from last summer, however, nothing says he wasn't saved from himself by decisions that were not within his purview. The Bonino-Lucic-Belesky UFA Lunges are not far in the rearview mirror.

We don't know for a fact that he didn't vye for a mediocre UFA -- maybe he did and was turned down. Same for a veteran. We only know the end result. And we only have end results obtained within what is a relatively small timespan when compared to his tenure as a whole.

 

[Runner77]

...
18: 6th

Personally i think betting on winning a cup while finished outside of the top 8 and making no change is being a very bad manager. If you're out of the top 8 you should plan for next year unless you can make significant changes at the deadline.

We are currently 11th. Only one team since 1980 won the cup while finishing at this position or lower.

Interesting data. Which apparently is not being followed by the pros who believe that "anything can happen" so long as you make the playoffs.

 

[calder candidate]

Thats bs. No team in the league has done that crap. Can you name me one 70 points center that was moved to the wing ?

Your right it doesn’t happen often, I would say Giroux and you told me that Kane was a Center for Chicago (I take your word for it) so take would make 2 on top of my head... But that is not the point, You basically said that defense didn’t matter as long you score point which is clearly not a great argument because the goal is winning games... if you allow more goal than you score it doesn’t matter how many goal you score you lose the game... At some point defensive play need to factor in even if it isn’t the first criteria.

 

[OldCraig71]

if he proves me wrong , i will gladly accept crow pie with a side of "toldyaso"

Let's be "honest" with ourselves here! JD is a star like habs of old! He brings fear into the hearts of men, women weep at his mere presence! When we draft every player in the top 5 this year(just beacause) we will have a solid top 6 like days of old! Believe Dat!

 

[OldCraig71]

Interesting data. Which apparently is not being followed by the pros who believe that "anything can happen" so long as you make the playoffs.

See avatar above left.

 

[Mrb1p]

Your right it doesn’t happen often, I would say Giroux and you told me that Kane was a Center for Chicago (I take your word for it) so take would make 2 on top of my head... But that is not the point, You basically said that defense didn’t matter as long you score point which is clearly not a great argument because the goal is winning games... if you allow more goal than you score it doesn’t matter how many goal you score you lose the game... At some point defensive play need to factor in even if it isn’t the first criteria.

No player in history has produced 70 points and was a minus.

Kane was playing center because the Hawks were weak at C and strong on w.

Same for Giroux and lol @ thinking Giroux is bad defensively.

 

[OldCraig71]

Well said.
The JVR and role change for Kadri point to explaining what they lost. Tavares, Johnson all season, Kapenen all season, Muzzin fresh addition, point to what they added. Im just saying when they signed JT the parade plans were on. Taking first place from Tbay and avoiding the Bruins in round one was a goal for fans. Now its no different than last season, can they win a round......

So the question is legit. Why are they not a much improved team. Leaf fans are asking it. Go to their board, they are looking hard at Babcock. Not saying I agree. But I am not surprised one bit that they many of them are showing their disappointment.

You need a good mix of different styles of players to be successful in the playoffs, see Washington. I don't see many unsung heroes on that TML roster and I don't see much in terms of intimidation factor either, they don't even hit. Last night you could see our smaller forwards not caring about contact and Domi flattening a biger softer player, when was the last time you saw us deliever a open ice hit like that? They are to quote MT, "soff". The pp's wont come in the playoffs and they are in trouble and I know that leaf fans come here and read and comment, big deal! They have the talent, no dispute there but no sand paper at all.