Gymnastics

[John Price]

 

[PanthersPens62]

Can we all be happy for Suni without the potshots taken at Simone? We get it already. Time to put it to rest and move on.

 

[The Burdened]

- be Suni Lee
- her big family lives in a small house with not a lot money, but they have sacrificed everything for her to pursue her dream
- her father is her biggest cheerleader and she loves him dearly
- be at 2019 Nationals
- get the call that your father has been in a horrific freak accident
- he falls while being a good man and helping a neighbor cut down a tree limb
- he is ultimately left paralyzed
- her and her family's lives changed forever
- she finished the meet with a heavy heart/mind; never gave up
- with him still laying in the hospital, she competes at world with a heavy heart/mind; never gave up
- she gets back and promises her dad that she will win him an Olympic Gold medal
- she looked like a lock to make the 2020 team, but COVID happens
- she loses multiple family members to COVID
- she suffers many ankle injuries during the hiatus and her olympic dreams in serious doubt
- she never gave up
- people tell her she should just be a specialist and she is wasting her time and health being an AA
- she wins the automatic bid to the Olympics and beats Biles on Day 2.
- Olympic Games arrive
- USA guaranteed a team gold medal; should win by 7-points clear
- Suni only does bar/beam and not floor because her ankle is in very bad shape and never really recovered
- team captain abandons the team mid competition and leaves them in a terrible spot
- Suni now must do floor to fill in
- She does it no questions asked and no regard for her own health; never gives up
- the guaranteed gold medal to deliver to her paralyzed dad turned to silver
- she does the All Around
- nearly loses it on a wolf spin on beam, but she fights for it and saves it
- never gives up
- she is now the Olympic All around Champion
- she will now get to show her father the gold medal she promised him

Suni Lee is an inspiration and the warrior this sport deserves.
Never give up.

We get it already. Time to put it to rest and move on.

get used to it; Simone Biles quitting on her team is now her legacy.

srs tho you're right tbh, this is about Suni Lee. Moving on

 

[BMOK33]

Lee was really the only one on this team I felt had that clutch factor. Biles IMO never really did, even in 2016. She just is THAT disgustingly good that her routines were so much more difficult than anyone else she would win. In general though her scores tended to be a tad lower in worlds and Olympic events than they did the lesser known ones.

 

[Eisen]

- be Suni Lee
- her big family lives in a small house with not a lot money, but they have sacrificed everything for her to pursue her dream
- her father is her biggest cheerleader and she loves him dearly
- be at 2019 Nationals
- get the call that your father has been in a horrific freak accident
- he falls while being a good man and helping a neighbor cut down a tree limb
- he is ultimately left paralyzed
- her and her family's lives changed forever
- she finished the meet with a heavy heart/mind; never gave up
- with him still laying in the hospital, she competes at world with a heavy heart/mind; never gave up
- she gets back and promises her dad that she will win him an Olympic Gold medal
- she looked like a lock to make the 2020 team, but COVID happens
- she loses multiple family members to COVID
- she suffers many ankle injuries during the hiatus and her olympic dreams in serious doubt
- she never gave up
- people tell her she should just be a specialist and she is wasting her time and health being an AA
- she wins the automatic bid to the Olympics and beats Biles on Day 2.
- Olympic Games arrive
- USA guaranteed a team gold medal; should win by 7-points clear
- Suni only does bar/beam and not floor because her ankle is in very bad shape and never really recovered
- team captain abandons the team mid competition and leaves them in a terrible spot
- Suni now must do floor to fill in
- She does it no questions asked and no regard for her own health; never gives up
- the guaranteed gold medal to deliver to her paralyzed dad turned to silver
- she does the All Around
- nearly loses it on a wolf spin on beam, but she fights for it and saves it
- never gives up
- she is now the Olympic All around Champion
- she will now get to show her father the gold medal she promised him

Suni Lee is an inspiration and the warrior this sport deserves.
Never give up.


get used to it; Simone Biles quitting on her team is now a huge part of her legacy.

srs tho you're right tbh, this is about Suni Lee. Moving on

How can you promise gold medals?

 

[DueDiligence]

Suni Lee is an inspiration and the warrior this sport deserves.
Never give up.

You don't know the whole story behind both athletes. "this sport" deserves both of them.

 

[PanthersPens62]

How can you promise gold medals?

I actually don't have a problem with this.....quite a few US athletes seem to do this with ill/dying friends/relatives. Of course the "promise" is not always "kept" but it seems to inspire them to do their best in their competitions.

 

[The Burdened]

How can you promise gold medals?

No idea, but she did. It's one of those deals where kid make a big promise/dream and you kind of just like say "sure, whatever you say" knowing that their heart is in the right place.

I guess that is power of hard work, self belief and never giving up.
World class grit and world class talent.

 

[Eisen]

I actually don't have a problem with this.....quite a few US athletes seem to do this with ill/dying friends/relatives. Of course the "promise" is not always "kept" but it seems to inspire them to do their best in their competitions.

If it works, it works. I don't have a problem with it either. I guess that chuzpe is needed to be a great pro in the first place.

 

[The Burdened]

just saw vid of Suni's family watching her win it.
hits you right in the feels knowing her dad is so excited and all he wants to do is jump up with everybody and celebrate but can't; happy for everyone there.

 

[nickp91]

Good to see Suni Lee shine despite all the team has been through! She really stepped up

 

[Daisy Jane]

Okay because some people are being ignorant. Let me explain this again.

Simone Biles did not just. "walk away" from her team.
She did not "quit" because she decided she decided "Hey. i don't feel like doing this."
She wasn't/isn't having a temper tantrum.
She has a well known psychological condition that impacts many divers, gymnasts and basically any athlete who twists in their sports. She lost the ability to judge her air awareness. You saw an example of that on the floor during qualifications, and you saw it on the vault. It takes weeks to retrain the body to remember how to twist (when its supposed to) and more importantly not to untwist when it's not supposed to.

If she competed without the ability to know what her body is going to do. she could severely hurt herself. This isn't the Russian guy choosing to compete on an injured achilles. This is not a Kerri Strug situation where you grit through the pain and just decide to rehab the owies later. This is being high in the air and not knowing where you are in the air and knowing when it is okay to come down safely.

If you want to criticize her for having the signs (as early as the Trials) and not pulling out. - go ahead.
If you want to criticize her (or the team) for not knowing this during qualifications - go ahead
But if people are going to continue to take pot shots at her after knowing what is plaguing her, hearing countless gymnasts and divers saying they had the same thing and had to pull out of competitions as "being a quitter." then you are deliberately being obtuse and missing the plot.

Ask yourself if you would want your child (sibling, yourself) to "Play for the team" and as them do a triple twisting triple move without knowing where they are in the air, and risk their mobility or their life for a chance at a medal.

There is not one person who would deliberately play with a concussion (which isn't even close to what the twisties are, but it's the most apt comparison for some of you people) - and even if they did there are countless people in place to ensure that they won't. There are no "twisties" spotters in the stands. you have to advocate for yourself in this and that's what Simone did. get a freaking clue.

 

[Eisen]

Okay because some people are being ignorant. Let me explain this again.

Simone Biles did not just. "walk away" from her team.
She did not "quit" because she decided she decided "Hey. i don't feel like doing this."
She wasn't/isn't having a temper tantrum.
She has a well known psychological condition that impacts many divers, gymnasts and basically any athlete who twists in their sports. She lost the ability to judge her air awareness. You saw an example of that on the floor during qualifications, and you saw it on the vault. It takes weeks to retrain the body to remember how to twist (when its supposed to) and more importantly not to untwist when it's not supposed to.

If she competed without the ability to know what her body is going to do. she could severely hurt herself. This isn't the Russian guy choosing to compete on an injured achilles. This is not a Kerri Strug situation where you grit through the pain and just decide to rehab the owies later. This is being high in the air and not knowing where you are in the air and knowing when it is okay to come down safely.

If you want to criticize her for having the signs (as early as the Trials) and not pulling out. - go ahead.
If you want to criticize her (or the team) for not knowing this during qualifications - go ahead
But if people are going to continue to take pot shots at her after knowing what is plaguing her, hearing countless gymnasts and divers saying they had the same thing and had to pull out of competitions as "being a quitter." then you are deliberately being obtuse and missing the plot.

Ask yourself if you would want your child (sibling, yourself) to "Play for the team" and as them do a triple twisting triple move without knowing where they are in the air, and risk their mobility or their life for a chance at a medal.

There is not one person who would deliberately play with a concussion (which isn't even close to what the twisties are, but it's the most apt comparison for some of you people) - and even if they did there are countless people in place to ensure that they won't. There are no "twisties" spotters in the stands. you have to advocate for yourself in this and that's what Simone did. get a freaking clue.

I saw her the day before, she fell off the mat, she botched her vault. If she knew, she never should have started, then. That's my only issue. I would think she has told her team before the event as well, given the circumstance.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I saw her the day before, she fell off the mat, she botched her vault. If she knew, she never should have started, then. That's my only issue. I would think she has told her team before the event as well, given the circumstance.

that would be my thing. I don't think Simone Biles is above being criticized (I've seen a lot of people, (including here) going that because of her past, and that because she's a "GOAT" (and we're nothing but couch potato plebs) no one should say anything, and I think that's crap). This didn't just happen yesterday.NBC did splice video and it looked like her timing was off all season. however i can also easily see people (including herself) ignoring most of it because that's what you are expected to do when you are great and people are depending on you.


her qualifications was a clear sign and people missed it and maybe simone thought she could tough it out and then that vault showed her that no. no she couldn't. anything before that - sure have at it. but anything after that, and knowing what the issue is quite frankly to me should make the debate dead.

and the thing is it didn't even cost the united states anything. they still medaled. Russia was better than them as a team.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Okay because some people are being ignorant. Let me explain this again.

Simone Biles did not just. "walk away" from her team.
She did not "quit" because she decided she decided "Hey. i don't feel like doing this."
She wasn't/isn't having a temper tantrum.
She has a well known psychological condition that impacts many divers, gymnasts and basically any athlete who twists in their sports. She lost the ability to judge her air awareness. You saw an example of that on the floor during qualifications, and you saw it on the vault. It takes weeks to retrain the body to remember how to twist (when its supposed to) and more importantly not to untwist when it's not supposed to.

If she competed without the ability to know what her body is going to do. she could severely hurt herself. This isn't the Russian guy choosing to compete on an injured achilles. This is not a Kerri Strug situation where you grit through the pain and just decide to rehab the owies later. This is being high in the air and not knowing where you are in the air and knowing when it is okay to come down safely.

If you want to criticize her for having the signs (as early as the Trials) and not pulling out. - go ahead.
If you want to criticize her (or the team) for not knowing this during qualifications - go ahead
But if people are going to continue to take pot shots at her after knowing what is plaguing her, hearing countless gymnasts and divers saying they had the same thing and had to pull out of competitions as "being a quitter." then you are deliberately being obtuse and missing the plot.

Ask yourself if you would want your child (sibling, yourself) to "Play for the team" and as them do a triple twisting triple move without knowing where they are in the air, and risk their mobility or their life for a chance at a medal.

There is not one person who would deliberately play with a concussion (which isn't even close to what the twisties are, but it's the most apt comparison for some of you people) - and even if they did there are countless people in place to ensure that they won't. There are no "twisties" spotters in the stands. you have to advocate for yourself in this and that's what Simone did. get a freaking clue.

I think a lot of people just didn't watch and got gripped by a catchy headline, it has already been hijacked by the usual grifters to fuel the culture war (she has become the latest subject of Piers Morgan's ire, what do we think she has in common with Meghan Markle?) Okay maybe it's not actually all about her race but it certainly fits in with the "war on woke" and sticking it to the younger generation for being mentally soft snowflakes. So if you're of a certain political persuasion you're probably likely to fall on a certain side of the debate.

I thought it was obvious that something was obviously very wrong, I've watched gymnastics enough to know that stuff like that doesn't usually happen and it's rare for them to make such big mistakes, even if their head is not quite in it. I said at the time when we were watching live and didn't know why she'd pulled out that I thought it must be something in-between mental health issues and an actual physical injury. It looks like I was correct as it's this sort of thing is exactly what I was thinking it must be. I wasn't aware the "twisties" was a thing but I assumed it must be a neurological (is that the right word?) issue where something in the mind was affecting motor function in some way.

I don't know anything about the whole stitching goats on leotards thing and all that, I think that's a completely separate debate.

I actually thought pulling herself out actually took some guts rather than it being the gutless thing people are claiming it to be. In some ways it would have been "easier" to just not say anything and try to ride it out. But maybe that's my British repression and social anxiety side talking.

 

[Fighter]

I saw her the day before, she fell off the mat, she botched her vault. If she knew, she never should have started, then. That's my only issue. I would think she has told her team before the event as well, given the circumstance.

Probably it has happened quite a lot in the past year, but being so good, she pulled through god knows how many times. She broke up on the biggest sport stage, it sucks but it is what it is.
The turds who are insulting her here, are the same turds who accused Gabby Douglas of being non-patriotic (f***ing unbelievable) because she didn't put her hand on the heart during the Team final's anthem back then (can you f***ing believe it???)... Gabby won multiple medals, including golds, for USA. Same turds who barely know that artistic gymnastics exists.

 

[The Burdened]

Really excited for the bars final. Suni vs. Darwael is heavyweight prize fight material
Anxious to know if Skinner is gonna get a shot at the vault final.

if a positive can come from Biles potentially quitting events, it would be Skinner getting a chance at an Olympic medal. Skinner is another always the bridesmaid never the bride and she could get a chance of a lifetime.

 

[Eisen]

Probably it has happened quite a lot in the past year, but being so good, she pulled through god knows how many times. She broke up on the biggest sport stage, it sucks but it is what it is.
The turds who are insulting her here, are the same turds who accused Gabby Douglas of being non-patriotic (f***ing unbelievable) because she didn't put her hand on the heart during the Team final's anthem back then (can you f***ing believe it???)... Gabby won multiple medals, including golds, for USA. Same turds who barely know that artistic gymnastics exists.

Half the German footy team doesn't sing the anthem. It's always an issue with some. Hand over the heart, hats off, don't sing. It doesn't say a thing in my opinon.

 

[Eisen]

that would be my thing. I don't think Simone Biles is above being criticized (I've seen a lot of people, (including here) going that because of her past, and that because she's a "GOAT" (and we're nothing but couch potato plebs) no one should say anything, and I think that's crap). This didn't just happen yesterday.NBC did splice video and it looked like her timing was off all season. however i can also easily see people (including herself) ignoring most of it because that's what you are expected to do when you are great and people are depending on you.


her qualifications was a clear sign and people missed it and maybe simone thought she could tough it out and then that vault showed her that no. no she couldn't. anything before that - sure have at it. but anything after that, and knowing what the issue is quite frankly to me should make the debate dead.

and the thing is it didn't even cost the united states anything. they still medaled. Russia was better than them as a team.

Honestly, the vault wasn't even the worst. How often do you see people falling off the mat during a floor routine?

 

[The Burdened]

Honestly, the vault wasn't even the worst. How often do you see people falling off the mat during a floor routine?

iirc Grace McCallum did it at trials.

Since Night 2 of Olympic Trials, Biles has been off on almost everything she's done. She still scored high, but really egregious errors.
by my count, think she went 3/9 since Night 2 of trials. She was perfect Night 1 going 4/4.

IDK what happened between those nights that has sent her in the tailspin, but what I do know is Suni Lee is the best gymnast in the world right now and has the Olympic AA gold medal to prove it

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

that would be my thing. I don't think Simone Biles is above being criticized (I've seen a lot of people, (including here) going that because of her past, and that because she's a "GOAT" (and we're nothing but couch potato plebs) no one should say anything, and I think that's crap). This didn't just happen yesterday.NBC did splice video and it looked like her timing was off all season. however i can also easily see people (including herself) ignoring most of it because that's what you are expected to do when you are great and people are depending on you.


her qualifications was a clear sign and people missed it and maybe simone thought she could tough it out and then that vault showed her that no. no she couldn't. anything before that - sure have at it. but anything after that, and knowing what the issue is quite frankly to me should make the debate dead.

and the thing is it didn't even cost the united states anything. they still medaled. Russia was better than them as a team.

For someone at that competitive level, and having THAT much pressure on her, I can imagine having a few "blips" (and they were bad ones too) during qualifying and figuring it was just jitters or maybe something was off that day but that your training will ultimately kick in when it counts and that you need to press through and "tough it out" for yourself, your country, etc... I can see the argument that she could have dropped before the Final, but also can't fault the competitor in her being determined to give it a go. Unfortunate that the hype and media machine around her is such that it has put a target on her back--any of her teammates drop out at the same point and there's nowhere near (if at all) the uproar.

 

[The Burdened]

Unfortunate that the hype and media machine around her is such that it has put a target on her back--any of her teammates drop out at the same point and there's nowhere near (if at all) the uproar.

in fairness, she sewed a target on her leos.
I'm not gonna totally blame her for buying into the hype cause everything today is about BRAND, but being so blunt about in the form of diamond goats and saying many times that she's her own competition cause nobody is close to her rubs most people the wrong way.

The NBC commentary for years has been way overboard with the hype. Tim Daggett has kind of toned it down a little bit, but Nastia Liukin in particular has been crazy overboard with hype to the point where she's just speaking in hyperbole. Stating stuff that isn't even true and painting pictures that nobody can live up to (like always insisting Simone is perfect; Biles is anything but. She is powerful and does the most difficulty on the planet, but she makes more mistakes than a lot of gymnasts cause she can simply afford to do it cause power/difficulty > execution/perfection).

 

[Daisy Jane]

For someone at that competitive level, and having THAT much pressure on her, I can imagine having a few "blips" (and they were bad ones too) during qualifying and figuring it was just jitters or maybe something was off that day but that your training will ultimately kick in when it counts and that you need to press through and "tough it out" for yourself, your country, etc... I can see the argument that she could have dropped before the Final, but also can't fault the competitor in her being determined to give it a go. Unfortunate that the hype and media machine around her is such that it has put a target on her back--any of her teammates drop out at the same point and there's nowhere near (if at all) the uproar.

yeah that's why i just feel in this... it's just unfortunate. They were never going to leave her home. It's like saying McDavid had a bad camp and you left him home. (if you were basing it just on performance and not knowing there was an issue). it was never going to happen. When it got bad- she pulled out. IMO - Simone should have just retired last year like she planned and advocated for changes in her sport (what she wants to do to make changes for athletes safety etc esp for sexual safety), vs. coming back and being a Visual Reminder (her words, not mine). I don't think she came back for love of sport, she came back for advocacy and I think that just did a toll on her physically and mentally. and we saw the result of that.

I do think she bought into the hype (again me personally i think she's the greatest of this generation (just not of all time that's just me) and I don't even really like Simone's type of gymnast. (I think personally - not taking one iota away from her talent, is simply a result of what the scoring is right now. If it was the 90s, even with the highest and the twists she did she's get dinged majorly on a lot of form and neutral breaks and probably doesn't win as much as she has)

I will also ay that she does have the right to be criticized. she's saying that she wasn't used to being the face of the Olympics and winning and what not (but i'd argue that's what she was in Rio). She had pressure being known as the greatest - but she had no problem flaunting it on her leo. you can't toast your bread, and then want it to be bread again. People crack under pressure, they are human. Even the Greatest of all Times crack under pressure. but own it. don't be all. "well everyone else said it and ooo." well you said too with your actions.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

in fairness, she sewed a target on her leos.
I'm not gonna totally blame her for buying into the hype cause everything today is about BRAND, but being so blunt about in the form of diamond goats and saying many times that she's her own competition cause nobody is close to her rubs most people the wrong way.

The NBC commentary for years has been way overboard with the hype. Tim Daggett has kind of toned it down a little bit, but Nastia Liukin in particular has been crazy overboard with hype to the point where she's just speaking in hyperbole. Stating stuff that isn't even true and painting pictures that nobody can live up to (like always insisting Simone is perfect; Biles is anything but. She is powerful and does the most difficulty on the planet, but she makes more mistakes than a lot of gymnasts cause she can simply afford to do it cause power/difficulty > execution/perfection).

Won't disagree with her buying into it. I blame the sports media, etc. more than her, but the goats and such definitely didn't dissuade it. I'd guess that probably also plays into her not withdrawing earlier, but who knows? Regardless, despite some of the positive support and press, this should be a hugely humbling experience for her.

 

[Tutu to]

Based on the info so far I feel criticism of her is absolutely fair.

I would understand if she was injured, but it appears she quit in the middle of an Olympic event because she simply wasn’t feeling it.

I also disagree with the notion that she doesn’t owe anybody shit. When you represent your country in the Olympics you are not just competing for yourself. Not to mention she had teammates for this event.