Gymnastics

[JeffreyLFC]

Based on the info so far I feel criticism of her is absolutely fair.

I would understand if she was injured, but it appears she quit in the middle of an Olympic event because she simply wasn’t feeling it.

I also disagree with the notion that she doesn’t owe anybody shit. When you represent your country in the Olympics you are not just competing for yourself. Not to mention she had teammates for this event.

I cannot disagree more.

1. She won it all before. Her country should be grateful not hateful.
2. Why is everybody mentioning quitting without even thinking about the possibility of a mental health related problem or some serious other physical problems.
3. She is still supporting her teammates and she clearly is proudly behind her country.

I feel people without having performed at the top level are incredibly judgemental and disrespectful of the level of physical and mental prepation it requires to be on top. We just sit on our couch and expect them to perform at their best all the time and if not you are criticized (just like you are doing).

 

[The Burdened]

I do think she bought into the hype (again me personally i think she's the greatest of this generation (just not of all time that's just me) and I don't even really like Simone's type of gymnast. (I think personally - not taking one iota away from her talent, is simply a result of what the scoring is right now. If it was the 90s, even with the highest and the twists she did she's get dinged majorly on a lot of form and neutral breaks and probably doesn't win as much as she has)

same.

she's obviously one of the greatest of all time in the sport and the best AA of her generation, but it's not a universal conclusion no matter how much NBC, Tim, Nastia, and Simone want to tell you. people may like it or not like it, but to be the one true goat she claimed to be she had to have a big olympics this year and, for whatever reason, it didn't happen.

obv the definitive GOAT vaulter and that pains me because I love Produnova and rate her so high, but I cannot deny Biles as vaulter she is on another level than anybody else that has ever done it.

I haven't watched really any gymnastics pre 1988, but Simone is in there with the likes of Shushunova, Khorkina, Podkopayeva etc (and obv Nadia and Olga who are classic innovators/legends of the sport). then there are obv the big olympic medal getters from before the 70's

For me, Podkopayeva is my favorite/best AA. For my money, 1995-96 is the single most competitive era of gymnastics and is peak gymnastics and she beat them all at Euros, Worlds, and Olympics consecutively.
The AA she competed in was like 10-deep of gymnastics legends, and she beat them all with class and artistry and power. the perfect combination.

 

[PanthersPens62]

For all you Simone haterz........Suni's father is grateful to Simone for dropping out because it opened the door for Suni to get her gold medal. He even said Simone is GOAT in his mind for her actions. So I think we can put to bed the idea that the other girls are bitter at what happened.

 

[Tutu to]

I cannot disagree more.

1. She won it all before. Her country should be grateful not hateful.
2. Why is everybody mentioning quitting without even thinking about the possibility of a mental health related problem or some serious other physical problems.
3. She is still supporting her teammates and she clearly is proudly behind her country.

I feel people without having performed at the top level are incredibly judgemental and disrespectful of the level of physical and mental prepation it requires to be on top. We just sit on our couch and expect them to perform at their best all the time and if not you are criticized (just like you are doing).

I think you are right and we should wait until all the info comes about before criticizing. But from my understanding it wasn’t a physical issue. Quitting in the middle of an Olympic event for a mental health reason deserves criticism. Could you imagine if Lebron James or Sidney Crosby quit game 7 of their finals after a few bad plays? The media would destroy them lol.

Also, if you wanna defend her because of all she has previously accomplished I guess that fine but the fact she is being called a hero for this is insane.

 

[Daisy Jane]

same.

she's obviously one of the greatest of all time in the sport and the best AA of her generation, but it's not a universal conclusion no matter how much NBC, Tim, Nastia, and Simone want to tell you. people may like it or not like it, but to be the one true goat she claimed to be she had to have a big olympics this year and, for whatever reason, it didn't happen.

obv the definitive GOAT vaulter and that pains me because I love Produnova and rate her so high, but I cannot deny Biles as vaulter she is on another level than anybody else that has ever done it.

I haven't watched really any gymnastics pre 1988, but Simone is in there with the likes of Shushunova, Khorkina, Podkopayeva etc (and obv Nadia and Olga who are classic innovators/legends of the sport). then there are obv the big olympic medal getters from before the 70's

For me, Podkopayeva is my favorite/best AA. For my money, 1995-96 is the single most competitive era of gymnastics and is peak gymnastics and she beat them all at Euros, Worlds, and Olympics consecutively.
The AA she competed in was like 10-deep of gymnastics legends, and she beat them all with class and artistry and power. the perfect combination.

Yes! LILLYPOD! She was my favourite too! (and Shannon Miller for me on the US side). Lillypod, Shannon, Radducan, Khorkina - those are my favourite all arounds because they combined the difficulty with the artistry which i think should be the point in Gymnatics. Suni Lee's performances are just breath takingly lovely (and they have the strength) so she's my favourite and while I had wished the Brazillian had won (just for storyline purposes) i'm glad she won. hopefully that inspires people to remember that form/artistry mattters as well as the power.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I think you are right and we should wait until all the info comes about before criticizing. But from my understanding it wasn’t a physical issue. Quitting in the middle of an Olympic event for a mental health reason deserves criticism. Could you imagine if Lebron James or Sidney Crosby quit game 7 of their finals after a few bad plays? The media would destroy them lol.

Also, if you wanna defend her because of all she has previously accomplished I guess that fine but the fact she is being called a hero for this is insane.

1: Mental Health is just as serious and as important as Physical Health
2: SHE HAS SPACIAL AWARENESS SYNDROME. SHE DOESN'T KNOW WHERE SHE IS IN THE AIR. If Lebron James and Sidney Crosby was several feet in the air, twisting and turning and had no earthly clue where they were, I would bet every dollar in the bank account, yeah, they'd quit game seven. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE AND OPEN UP TOO EARLY OR LATE YOU COULD CRASH AND SEVERELY. HURT. YOURSELF. OR. DIE.

God. you can not compare sports in this matter.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I feel people without having performed at the top level are incredibly judgemental and disrespectful of the level of physical and mental prepation it requires to be on top. We just sit on our couch and expect them to perform at their best all the time and if not you are criticized (just like you are doing).

I do think that's insulting

While we sit on our couch - I would argue most people do acknowledge what it takes to get to that point. I think that also discounts (a lot) of people who follow the sport in question and knows what is what and what is not. You can know what an athlete is supposed to do (and get a feeling that it's injury related, vs just not having it vs. completely melting down) without having had participated or being at that level and being supportive, vs saying you did your best, vs. imo having an opinion and saying that they melted down.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I think you are right and we should wait until all the info comes about before criticizing. But from my understanding it wasn’t a physical issue. Quitting in the middle of an Olympic event for a mental health reason deserves criticism. Could you imagine if Lebron James or Sidney Crosby quit game 7 of their finals after a few bad plays? The media would destroy them lol.

Also, if you wanna defend her because of all she has previously accomplished I guess that fine but the fact she is being called a hero for this is insane.

If Crosby and or Lebron were affected by injuries and felt they were more detrimental to the success of their team and have the confidence that their teammates can do the job and request to be out instead of a nuisance to win the game. Yes, that would be great humbling moment from them and quite in their honor to aknowledge that. Would they be criticized by media? Obviously they always criticize you but they know themselves they had to backout and show humility for the common cause, winning.

In other words, only Simone truly knows what truly happened and I respect her decision. She does not have to disclose everything and people labelling her a quitter after what she has accomplished I find it quite ridiculous.

 

[Daisy Jane]

If Crosby and or Lebron were affected by injuries and felt they were more detrimental to the success of their team and have the confidence that their teammates can do the job and request to be out instead of a nuisance to win the game. Yes, that would be great humbling moment from them and quite in their honor to aknowledge that. Would they be criticized by media? Obviously they always criticize you but they know themselves they had to backout and show humility for the common cause, winning.

In other words, only Simone truly knows what truly happened and I respect her decision. She does not have to disclose everything and people labelling her a quitter after what she has accomplished I find it quite ridiculous.

well you can accomplish a lot and still be a quitter.
however she didn't quit she was medically unable to perform. so she's not a quitter.

 

[Eisen]

Yes! LILLYPOD! She was my favourite too! (and Shannon Miller for me on the US side). Lillypod, Shannon, Radducan, Khorkina - those are my favourite all arounds because they combined the difficulty with the artistry which i think should be the point in Gymnatics. Suni Lee's performances are just breath takingly lovely (and they have the strength) so she's my favourite and while I had wished the Brazillian had won (just for storyline purposes) i'm glad she won. hopefully that inspires people to remember that form/artistry mattters as well as the power.

Boginskaya for me. By the way, does anyone remember Jelena Muchina? That's what can happen if you are doing a routine you know you can't. I still criticise her timing but not the decision. And I'm glad she dropped out of AA, for her health and for being spared the shitstorm.

 

[Fighter]

Yes! LILLYPOD! She was my favourite too! (and Shannon Miller for me on the US side). Lillypod, Shannon, Radducan, Khorkina - those are my favourite all arounds because they combined the difficulty with the artistry which i think should be the point in Gymnatics. Suni Lee's performances are just breath takingly lovely (and they have the strength) so she's my favourite and while I had wished the Brazillian had won (just for storyline purposes) i'm glad she won. hopefully that inspires people to remember that form/artistry mattters as well as the power.

Andreea Raducan was my Sydney 2000 crush, been a huge fan ever since etc BUT claiming that ANY Romanian gymnast in the Belu-Bitang era had artistic skills is off mark... By a lot. All the choreographies were made by Mariana Bitang and were considered boring and unimaginative, Raducan, Amanar and Olaru dominated the AA but in the apparatus finals didn't deliver as much: they were excellent in their skills and more importantly they didn't fall, but the artistic part is something that the Romanian team was never considered strong. In Athens little changed in this aspect.

To me there is only Nadia and Simone which can be considered GOATs, everybody else is quite distant.

I can imagine the reaction of the well known gymnastics experts in here if Simone kept trying with her exercises, costing the US team also the silver... Or worse: "Why the f*** did she continue? Why didn't she ask to be substituted?"

 

[Daisy Jane]

Andreea Raducan was my Sydney 2000 crush, been a huge fan ever since etc BUT claiming that ANY Romanian gymnast in the Belu-Bitang era had artistic skills is off mark... By a lot. All the choreographies were made by Mariana Bitang and were considered boring and unimaginative, Raducan, Amanar and Olaru dominated the AA but in the apparatus finals didn't deliver as much: they were excellent in their skills and more importantly they didn't fall, but the artistic part is something that the Romanian team was never considered strong. In Athens little changed in this aspect.

To me there is only Nadia and Simone which can be considered GOATs, everybody else is quite distant.

I can imagine the reaction of the well known gymnastics experts in here if Simone kept trying with her exercises, costing the US team also the silver... Or worse: "Why the f*** did she continue? Why didn't she ask to be substituted?"

well iliked how she performed, she was charming (I was also 16 so i mean. if i rewatched i'll admit maybe i didn't like it so much) LOL

I don't really using this - but i just feel people want to poop on Simone for whatever reason they wanna poopon her and this gives them an excuse to do so. which is dumb because she has an actual condition that prevented her from doing her job.

honestly i've been on the record saying that i think hockey players are some of the stupidest athletes in the world because they will play severely injured and it costs their team more than it helps them. Like playing with collapsed lungs, and broken ribs and hernias and whatever. but I'm not a man so maybe it's part of this some boy code, and if it doesn't bother the team/coaches/whomever, it doesn't really bother me but i'll rip you one if it costs you moving forward.

there are a lot of athletes (currently) competing on no achilies, and just healed ankles, and tender backs - and you can lower the degree of difficulty and whatever to try to power through it. thats their choice. You can't power through spacial disorientation. it just doesn't "go away". i feel a lot of people feel that this was a Kerri Strug situation and she chose "not to vault" and it's not the same thing at all.

 

[The Burdened]

speaking of Sydney 2000, I will never understand why that AA never gets mentioned as a huge scandal.
deserves an ESPN 30-for-30.

When I learned about it years later cause it was years before I became a fan of the sport, I was gobsmacked that they still continued on with the competition.
I didn't get why the only person making a huge deal of it on the broadcast was Al Trautwig (and he usually sucked but he basically called it correctly that the competition is tarnished because the girls that had gone on vault and fell their mental game was now unfairly compromised). The coaches for the athletes were left in the dark and were passively told that they could re-vault, but the damage to the athletes psyche had been done.
IMO competition should have been called off and restarted another day.

Don't even know what a fair comparison would be, but maybe if in another sport if the goal size was several inches larger for one team in a championship game and they let in a bunch of goals. Would be a huge scandal. It kind just gets forgotten about tho.
Gymnasts were almost breaking their necks Elise Ray and Khorkina had really scary falls.

That + the eventual winner got her medal stripped of her, and then the 3rd place Chinese got their team medals stripped of them. Sydney 2000 olympic gymnastics an absolute circus!

 

[PanthersPens62]

Simone pulled out of the uneven bars & vault. TBA on the other disciplines at this time.

 

[The Burdened]

Skinner gonna get her chance to finally have a dream come true as she has a really really really great shot at an olympic gold medal now. talk about a rollercoaster for her
Would be wonderful if Carey+Skinner get vault medals. then all american gymnasts would come home with medals.

think this also means Dos Santos from France is now in for Bars.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Simone pulled out of the uneven bars & vault. TBA on the other disciplines at this time.

honestly, i think she should just pull out of everything. it's not what she wanted to do obviously but i think it's just easier to pull the bandaid off, (and then imo just let the story die).

 

[Tutu to]

If Crosby and or Lebron were affected by injuries and felt they were more detrimental to the success of their team and have the confidence that their teammates can do the job and request to be out instead of a nuisance to win the game. Yes, that would be great humbling moment from them and quite in their honor to aknowledge that. Would they be criticized by media? Obviously they always criticize you but they know themselves they had to backout and show humility for the common cause, winning.

In other words, only Simone truly knows what truly happened and I respect her decision. She does not have to disclose everything and people labelling her a quitter after what she has accomplished I find it quite ridiculous.

It appears she wasn’t injured though…

And if she was it should be known.

Quitting cause of mental health in the middle of an Olympic event deserves criticism IMO.

 

[Daisy Jane]

It appears she wasn’t injured though…

And if she was it should be known.

Quitting cause of mental health in the middle of an Olympic event deserves criticism IMO.

spoken by someone who probably hasn't had any kind of mental health issues, because if you had them you would not be saying that at all.

and again. you are expecting someone to tumble in the air with no idea where she is in the air and risking her life. like seriously go kick a rock.

 

[Tutu to]

So apparently she has the “twisties” which from my understanding is similar to vertigo. To me that is physical and a legit reason to pull out in a sport like gymnastics. That being said she absolutely should not be lauded as a hero for this.

Are mental health issues going to be everyone’s crutch going forward? When athletes don’t perform to expectation are we going to see more of this? What’s really the difference between this and choking ?

Also, I do believe some people genuinely have mental health issues but a lot of it is simply weakness. I know you won’t agree lol.

 

[Fighter]

well iliked how she performed, she was charming (I was also 16 so i mean. if i rewatched i'll admit maybe i didn't like it so much) LOL

Oh indeed she was a great character, loved her for that too, she was so unlike the rest of the team which barely knew how to smile (Amanas wasn't even that bad, but Olaru seemed neutral on everything and Gina Gogean in the previous OGs was straight up sad all the time... Being under Belu made you like that I guess!).
I still have the VHS of both Atlanta and Sydney gym routines but I'd suggest you to avoid watching because... well after watching these years' evolution... well, those routines just don't cut it anymore

Simone out of vault and UB, not surprising.

 

[The Burdened]

So apparently she has the “twisties” which from my understanding is similar to vertigo. To me that is physical and a legit reason to pull out in a sport like gymnastics. That being said she absolutely should not be lauded as a hero for this.

Are mental health issues going to be everyone’s crutch going forward? When athletes don’t perform to expectation are we going to see more of this? What’s really the difference between this and choking ?

Also, I do believe some people genuinely have mental health issues but a lot of it is simple weakness. I know you won’t agree lol.

IMO the mistake in all of this is they didn't stick to it being she quit due to a medical related.

Once the phrase "no, it's more mental issues/mental health related" got thrown out there, it gets wild. It jumps from "we need more mental health awareness!" to "she couldn't handle to the pressure" to "yas queen you take personal days as you see fit!" to "poor thing couldn't handle it and quit on her team" etc etc

Twisties does not seem like mental health. Rightfully treat it like any other injury.
Granted, I don't recall an elite gymnast ever quitting a competition due to the twisties, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened before it's probably just never been broadcast.

Also quite shocking her coaches were the ones that confirmed it was mental issues. I would think coaches above anybody else would consider the twisties as legit as any other injury.

Even if she didn't had the twisties, I firmly believe she was headed for a rough (by her standards) games. She did not look awesome since the season started and it culminated when she looked like a tire fire on Day 2 of Olympic Trials where Suni Lee beat her fair and square.

 

[John Price]

 

[The Burdened]

If Suni gets gold on Bars here, she could join a super elite class of gymnasts who won the All Around Gold + an Event Final Gold in the same olympics.

Since 1970 only 3 gymnasts have done that. Nadia, Podkopayeva and Biles.

EDIT: won't get a medal. Still has a chance on beam

 

[Eisen]

If Suni gets gold on Bars here, she could join a super elite class of gymnasts who won the All Around Gold + an Event Final Gold in the same olympics.

Since 1970 only 3 gymnasts have done that. Nadia, Podkopayeva and Biles.

Forget it, Seitz has to win.

 

[Eisen]

Lee is not happy with her uneven bars routine.