Griffin Reinhart [UPD: Recalled After Davidson Injury] - Pt II

[Birdperson]

Stopped reading after you said Reinhart can't make a pass. Clearly you don't watch the player because he is a pretty damn good passer.

Yeah, cause the poster with the Reinhart avatar isn't biased at all.

 

[Raab]

Yeah, cause the poster with the Reinhart avatar isn't biased at all.

It also means I've seen Reinhart in over 80 games. If you don't think he can pass your gonna be really surprised when he gets adjusted to the NHL game speed and starts making long stretch passes like a king. Kid can definitely pass and his skating isn't that bad but could be better. He's got a lot more to his game then what he's shown so far.

 

[oStealthKiller*]

It also means I've seen Reinhart in over 80 games. If you don't think he can pass your gonna be really surprised when he gets adjusted to the NHL game speed and starts making long stretch passes like a king. Kid can definitely pass and his skating isn't that bad but could be better. He's got a lot more to his game then what he's shown so far.

Agreed. He is an excellent passer and I can't wait until he takes the next step.

 

[Smartguy]

It also means I've seen Reinhart in over 80 games. If you don't think he can pass your gonna be really surprised when he gets adjusted to the NHL game speed and starts making long stretch passes like a king. Kid can definitely pass and his skating isn't that bad but could be better. He's got a lot more to his game then what he's shown so far.

Some people are so upset over the price we paid and his flaws being overblown because of this that they will fail to see that he is actually a decent young defenseman, I think he has played some good hockey in spurts over the year and has struggled from time to time as young dmen do, with that said he can make a good outlet pass and has shown he will jump up and follow this pass, I find that his biggest issue isn't skating or passing or every other flaw some think to have but consistency and that will come with experience

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Some people are so upset over the price we paid and his flaws being overblown because of this that they will fail to see that he is actually a decent young defenseman, I think he has played some good hockey in spurts over the year and has struggled from time to time as young dmen do, with that said he can make a good outlet pass and has shown he will jump up and follow this pass, I find that his biggest issue isn't skating or passing or every other flaw some think to have but consistency and that will come with experience

Well said.

Here's some food for thought on Reinhart. (Yes, quoting myself, but I did some work using Warrior charts to find some Reinhart comparables). Some of the names will surprise you a bit. The original post was from the Marincin vs Reinhart thread started by Leaf fans to stroke their own...Egos.

HEY EVERYONE. COME SEE HOW MUCH GRIFFIN REINHART SUCKS!

Reinhart vs Gudbranson

Reinhart vs Brodin

Reinhart vs Hanifin

Reinhart vs Alzner

Reinhart vs Russell

Reinhart vs Dumba

Reinhart vs Matt Greene


Reinhart vs Kronwall

I get you Leaf fans being excited for Marty, and truth be told he still has a few believers in Edmonton that think we made a mistake. The guy just turned 22 years old, though, so for a 21 year old shutdown defenceman, I actually think he played pretty darn well for us this season.

Give him some time before you chuck him on the scrap heap. I think he'll surprise a lot of people.

 

[Birdperson]

Yeah, but those defensemen being bad doesn't really matter either. The only defensemen I'd be interested in there would be Dumba and Hanifin. Hanifin isn't really comparable because he is much younger while Reinhart is his the 4th year after his draft.

Russell has never been more than a 3rd pairing guy, Kronwall's in decline, Greene was never that good, Alzner is a limited player, I've always thought Gudbranson was bad, and Brodin has zero offense and hasn't looked good away from Suter.

Besides, Dumba and Hanifin have much more offensive potential than Reinhart and the rest I don't really get with the huge difference in age.

Even looking at Reinhart's hero chart its important to note the time on ice. Russell plays way too much, but he's a decent defensemen in limited minutes. Reinhart isn't playing much and is still bad.

The issue has always been why give up assets for a limited player. The last thing they needed was another shut down defensemen with no offense, and its just as poor of a move a year later.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Yeah, but those defensemen being bad doesn't really matter either. The only defensemen I'd be interested in there would be Dumba and Hanifin. Hanifin isn't really comparable because he is much younger while Reinhart is his the 4th year after his draft.

Russell has never been more than a 3rd pairing guy, Kronwall's in decline, Greene was never that good, Alzner is a limited player, I've always thought Gudbranson was bad, and Brodin has zero offense and hasn't looked good away from Suter.

Besides, Dumba and Hanifin have much more offensive potential than Reinhart and the rest I don't really get with the huge difference in age.

Even looking at Reinhart's hero chart its important to note the time on ice. Russell plays way too much, but he's a decent defensemen in limited minutes. Reinhart isn't playing much and is still bad.

The issue has always been why give up assets for a limited player. The last thing they needed was another shut down defensemen with no offense, and its just as poor of a move a year later.

I think people are altogether too quick to toss Reinhart on the scrap heap because they don't like the price we paid for him and they didn't like the decision making process (He's NHL ready!) that went into acquiring him.

I actually think Alzner is an excellent comparable long term. Their AHL numbers are damn near identical. He never put up eye popping numbers in junior and hasn't exceeded 21 points in the NHL, but the guy is the #2/#3 defenceman on the best team in the league. Just make sure Griff buddies up with Leon this summer and does the same skating workouts.

 

[Philly85*]

If he turns into Alzner that would be a best case scenario from my perspective. solid #4 on a good team with little to no offence.

 

[Jejune]

Reinhart will be fine. He just needs to learn to assert himself some more and get a bit more confidence, I'm not worried. The biggest mistake teams make is giving up on talented defensemen early. Larsson, Hedman, McDonagh, Petry. There's a huge list of defensemen that just seem to figure the game out once they hit their mid-20's.

As for Reinhart vs. Marincin. That is funny. Just about the only thing Marincin passes is the statistics test. By the eye test he still gives the puck away at least once a shift, is extremely weak on the puck and has just about the biggest muffin for a shot that I've ever seen (yes, more than Reinhart).

I have no regrets about that trade. I'd take Gryba 10 times out of 10 over Marincin, and I'm no Gryba fan either.

 

[Birdperson]

I think people are altogether too quick to toss Reinhart on the scrap heap because they don't like the price we paid for him and they didn't like the decision making process (He's NHL ready!) that went into acquiring him.

I actually think Alzner is an excellent comparable long term. Their AHL numbers are damn near identical. He never put up eye popping numbers in junior and hasn't exceeded 21 points in the NHL, but the guy is the #2/#3 defenceman on the best team in the league. Just make sure Griff buddies up with Leon this summer and does the same skating workouts.

Eh, I don't really see it.

Four years after being drafted Alzner played 20 minutes a night (3/4th most on D) and put up 12 points for Washington.

Alzner was already a fairly good top-4 guy at the same time Reinhart isn't even a good bottom-pairing guy. Alzner didn't have the offensive numbers then though, but he was a NHL regular already and fairly sucessful (played well with Carlson).

Maybe in terms of style, sure, but Reinhart is behind where Alzner was and isn't likely to catch up next year as I don't think anyone has him penciled in the Oilers line up, let alone the top 4.

I know I'm being pretty negative on Reinhart, but its just the truth. I don't think Reinhart has the skating that Alzner does.

 

[tiger_80]

Some people are so upset over the price we paid and his flaws being overblown because of this that they will fail to see that he is actually a decent young defenseman, I think he has played some good hockey in spurts over the year and has struggled from time to time as young dmen do, with that said he can make a good outlet pass and has shown he will jump up and follow this pass, I find that his biggest issue isn't skating or passing or every other flaw some think to have but consistency and that will come with experience

Yes, some people are impatient due to him being a high draft pick and being acquired for 16th overall. I think if the Oilers drafted him 16th overall in 2012, everybody would be quite happy with his development now. Nurse is only 1 year younger and they are essentially in the same spot developmentwise. Davidson was drafted in 2010 and was a lesser player than Reinhart is right now not so long ago.

iMHO, Reinhart will take a bit more time (another year or two), but when all's said and done he will be a very useful 2-4D, capable of playing 20+ mins a night against strong competition, while putting some 20 points a year.

 

[Mr Positive]

Yes, some people are impatient due to him being a high draft pick and being acquired for 16th overall. I think if the Oilers drafted him 16th overall in 2012, everybody would be quite happy with his development now. Nurse is only 1 year younger and they are essentially in the same spot developmentwise. Davidson was drafted in 2010 and was a lesser player than Reinhart is right now not so long ago.

iMHO, Reinhart will take a bit more time (another year or two), but when all's said and done he will be a very useful 2-4D, capable of playing 20+ mins a night against strong competition, while putting some 20 points a year.

the other aspect is that everyone thinks that all prospects will turn out until proven otherwise. So there is some proof that Reinhart's ceiling has lowered, and that hasn't happened with Barzal or Connor or the player from the 33rd pick. Historically though, the draft has proven to be a crapshoot even at that 16th spot, and really even with picks better than that. Already some people are starting to move the hypothetical away from Barzal and onto Connor, because Connor looks better, even though that Barzal was the player at that range. Of course, the whole thing reeks of cherry picking from hindsight, which is even how everyone hates the Musil pick even though he was not a reach. It becomes more powerful when someone like Jenner or Gibson was a player they picked for us to get so they think they outsmarted the ones who made the pick even though the ones in charge have more info, and all the people who did have a passing interest in different players at that range that didn't pan out shut up because they simply forgot their casual preference. Unfortunately Reinhart will always be tainted by the price paid for him, and even if the player moves again to a later player like Svechnikov or Chabot

 

[Canovin]

Yes, some people are impatient due to him being a high draft pick and being acquired for 16th overall. I think if the Oilers drafted him 16th overall in 2012, everybody would be quite happy with his development now. Nurse is only 1 year younger and they are essentially in the same spot developmentwise. Davidson was drafted in 2010 and was a lesser player than Reinhart is right now not so long ago.

iMHO, Reinhart will take a bit more time (another year or two), but when all's said and done he will be a very useful 2-4D, capable of playing 20+ mins a night against strong competition, while putting some 20 points a year.

Aside from draft pedigree, both Davidson and Marincin have shown more with lesser teams. If we are going to trade away that kind of assets, the player coming back better have a high end ceiling. Except Reinhart has limited upside. I'm not against trading for Reinhart if we traded a mid 2nd pick for him. But the package we gave was too steep. On top of that we already have Musil, Simpson Betker in the system. Similar players with similar upside. Trading away Marincin who we invested 5 years in and is now doing better than Reinhart for a 4th was silly. We didn't need to give up Marincin in order to get Gryba.

 

[Birdperson]

Aside from draft pedigree, both Davidson and Marincin have shown more with lesser teams. If we are going to trade away that kind of assets, the player coming back better have a high end ceiling. Except Reinhart has limited upside. I'm not against trading for Reinhart if we traded a mid 2nd pick for him. But the package we gave was too steep. On top of that we have Musil, Simpson. Similar players with similar upside. Trading way Marincin who we invested 5 years in and is now doing better than Reinhart for a 4th was silly. We didn't need to give up Marincin in order to get Gryba.

The trade should have been Yakupov for Reinhart, and I would have been fine with it. Still wouldn't have liked it but it would have made sense.

 

[Canovin]

The trade should have been Yakupov for Reinhart, and I would have been fine with it. Still wouldn't have liked it but it would have made sense.

Yak for Ryan Pulock makes more sense. RHD with a big shot and he has top pairing upside. Exactly what we need.

 

[McWeber]

Yak for Ryan Pulock makes more sense. RHD with a big shot and he has top pairing upside. Exactly what we need.

Isn't Pulock supposed to be the Isles answer to trading Hamonic?

 

[Aerchon]

Reinhart will be fine. He just needs to learn to assert himself some more and get a bit more confidence, I'm not worried. The biggest mistake teams make is giving up on talented defensemen early. Larsson, Hedman, McDonagh, Petry. There's a huge list of defensemen that just seem to figure the game out once they hit their mid-20's.

As for Reinhart vs. Marincin. That is funny. Just about the only thing Marincin passes is the statistics test. By the eye test he still gives the puck away at least once a shift, is extremely weak on the puck and has just about the biggest muffin for a shot that I've ever seen (yes, more than Reinhart).

I have no regrets about that trade. I'd take Gryba 10 times out of 10 over Marincin, and I'm no Gryba fan either.

Marincin has higher defensive Iq, skating, positioning, and stickwork. Has proven he can handle top opposition.

They are both good passers, both good reach, and similiar offensive upside.

The only thing Reinhart has on Marincin is size and physical play.

The giveaways happen to everyone and Marincin no more than most in the league. Once a shift...

I do like Gyrba. I do like Reinhart. I think we need more physical players on the backend. But Marincin is better than both those guys, right now anyways, and didnt cost us the valueable picks we gave.

 

[McWeber]

Marincin has higher defensive Iq, skating, positioning, and stickwork. Has proven he can handle top opposition.

They are both good passers, both good reach, and similiar offensive upside.

The only thing Reinhart has on Marincin is size and physical play.

The giveaways happen to everyone and Marincin no more than most in the league. Once a shift...

I do like Gyrba. I do like Reinhart. I think we need more physical players on the backend. But Marincin is better than both those guys, right now anyways, and didnt cost us the valueable picks we gave.

Its pretty clear that Chia has been trying to purge the softness from this team. When we were much more loaded at LHD Marincin was easier to cut loose than Schultz who atleast filled a niche. Soft shutdown D lose their shine in a hurry, they have 1 dimension and can't just fall back on trying to score. Atleast if Gryba isn't playing his best he can be a punishing hitter and stand up for teammates. People complaining about losing Marincin when we have a similar player in Fayne that barely anyone likes.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Marincin has higher defensive Iq, skating, positioning, and stickwork. Has proven he can handle top opposition.

They are both good passers, both good reach, and similiar offensive upside.

The only thing Reinhart has on Marincin is size and physical play.

The giveaways happen to everyone and Marincin no more than most in the league. Once a shift...

I do like Gyrba. I do like Reinhart. I think we need more physical players on the backend. But Marincin is better than both those guys, right now anyways, and didnt cost us the valueable picks we gave.

I'll disagree with you on defensive IQ and positioning. Reinhart is a very smart defender, possibly the best thing about him is his brain.

Honestly comparing Marincin and Reinhart right now is like comparing Davidson and Cody Ceci. Davidson is night and day better all around right now, but it's kind of an unfair comparison since Davidson is a lot further along in his development, and the sample size is very small.

I'm not exactly going to cry myself to sleep at night over losing a defensive defenceman with 7 points this last season and averaged under 17 minutes a night. Jordan Oesterle stepped in and brought at least what Marincin did every night, IMO.

 

[Gone]

Marincin has higher defensive Iq, skating, positioning, and stickwork. Has proven he can handle top opposition.

They are both good passers, both good reach, and similiar offensive upside.

The only thing Reinhart has on Marincin is size and physical play.

The giveaways happen to everyone and Marincin no more than most in the league. Once a shift...

I do like Gyrba. I do like Reinhart. I think we need more physical players on the backend. But Marincin is better than both those guys, right now anyways, and didnt cost us the valueable picks we gave.

Petry was a big loss for us. Maricin was just developing but couldn't handle top 2 minutes here. Schultz was no different. We keep throwing kids to the wolves and look what happens. They get traded for magic beans and develop elsewhere.

At the end of the day we need a Gryba to calm things down. To me we gave up way to much in Maricin, and of all the D-men we lost, he and Petry were the two biggest mistakes. Imagine having both Petry and MM in our lineup this year; it would have been much better.

 

[tempest2i]

Petry was a big loss for us. Maricin was just developing but couldn't handle top 2 minutes here. Schultz was no different. We keep throwing kids to the wolves and look what happens. They get traded for magic beans and develop elsewhere.

At the end of the day we need a Gryba to calm things down. To me we gave up way to much in Maricin, and of all the D-men we lost, he and Petry were the two biggest mistakes. Imagine having both Petry and MM in our lineup this year; it would have been much better.

Davidson took Marincin's roster spot and played well enough that I don't care what happens with MM moving forwards. If given the option again I'd still send MM away so Davidson has a spot on the roster.

The Oil could have used Petry, that's for sure. He'd probably be playing 24+ minutes a night and everyone would hate him because if you play a #4 as a #2 you're probably going to be disappointed in the results.

 

[Aceboogie]

Davidson took Marincin's roster spot and played well enough that I don't care what happens with MM moving forwards. If given the option again I'd still send MM away so Davidson has a spot on the roster.

The Oil could have used Petry, that's for sure. He'd probably be playing 24+ minutes a night and everyone would hate him because if you play a #4 as a #2 you're probably going to be disappointed in the results.

My thinking exactly. Marincin trade was a loss but Davidsons development was a clear, clear win. Id easily give up a 16th + 2nd to get the type of D Davidson is becoming (and has played like). Chia banked on getting that D from Reinhart, but it was Davidson. We are in a zero sum place IMO. Best outcome is we keep the picks and get Kyle Connor and Davidson progresses, worst outcome is Reinhart deal is made and Davidson gets wiaved and claimed. So we are right in the middle.

If the question is, would you undo Marincin and Reinhart trades if it meant Davidson didnt turn out? Id probably say no. IMO I think Davidson development was tied to Marincin being let go (having the roster spot) and also getting that internal comp with Reinhart/Nurse that pushed him. Maybe this is a stretch but what I choose to believe

Trade aside, I thought he looked really solid to end the year. Hopefully he keeps it up next year. I forsee him ending up as Smid was here. And to me Ill take that

 

[hallhopkinseberle]

I think people are altogether too quick to toss Reinhart on the scrap heap because they don't like the price we paid for him and they didn't like the decision making process (He's NHL ready!) that went into acquiring him.

I actually think Alzner is an excellent comparable long term. Their AHL numbers are damn near identical. He never put up eye popping numbers in junior and hasn't exceeded 21 points in the NHL, but the guy is the #2/#3 defenceman on the best team in the league. Just make sure Griff buddies up with Leon this summer and does the same skating workouts.

Alzner is a perfect Comparable

 

[hallhopkinseberle]

Petry was a big loss for us. Maricin was just developing but couldn't handle top 2 minutes here. Schultz was no different. We keep throwing kids to the wolves and look what happens. They get traded for magic beans and develop elsewhere.

At the end of the day we need a Gryba to calm things down. To me we gave up way to much in Maricin, and of all the D-men we lost, he and Petry were the two biggest mistakes. Imagine having both Petry and MM in our lineup this year; it would have been much better.

Klefbom-Petry
Sekera-Davidson
Marincin-Schultz/Fayne

still too soft for the west tbh and lack any significant offence upside, would say if we came into injuries problems we would've been okay though.

 

[Birdperson]

I'm not sure Gryba calms anything down as much as he takes a stupid amount of interference penalties because he's so slow.