Player Discussion Griffin Reinhart: Trade for, season expectations, all in here [UPD: Recalled]

[Philly85*]

I am comparing him to the rest of his draft class that went near his position(he went 4th so lets say top 10) and others that were drafted in similar positions as him.

Murray (2nd), Rielly (5th), Lindholm (6th), Lindholm (7th), Trouba (9th) are all for sure ahead of Reinhart as of right now. Pouliot (8th), Koekkoek (10th) and Reinhart himself are behind the curve. I think I can fairly say that the latter 3 are lagging behind the rest of the players in the top 10. Now doesn't mean that Reinhart can't be as good as them but it does cause concern because other players are passing him.

In 2011 both Dougie Hamilton (9th) and Jonas Brodin (10th) at the same point Reinhart is currently (Draft +4) were effective NHLers. Even a guy like Larsson (4th) who had some ups and downs played 64 games in that same point and never saw the AHL except for 1 game. 2010 had Eric Gubdranson (3rd) as well was in the NHL on a bottom pairing role as well. Dylan McIllrath (10th) was in the AHL and has currently played 22 NHL games to date.

These were just quick examples but it does show that he has lagged behind. Now he could end up like Hickey (4th in 07) who took a very long time to develop or he could end up lie McIllrath still trying to get that spot. I think I can fairly concluded that he has lagged behind. Its not his fault that he is. Sometimes players just take longer to develop and that is the reality. I do find myself concerned currently but I am not writing him off at all. I just see a player that has fallen behind a lot of his peers currently. We saw an amazing defender in juniors here and I hope he can reach that potential he is said to have.

This is a drops the mic, walks off the stage post

 

[Sweetpotato]

It's funny you mention Plante and Musil because they were selected in almost the exact places that those two picks were located in last year's draft. And with the nearly the same scouting team would you honestly trust them to draft two future NHLers?

We weren't going to draft Mathew Barzal.

We weren't going to draft Anthony Beauvillier.

Griffin Reinhart was a more valuable player to Peter Chiarelli than any player available at pick 16 at the draft. So regardless of who else was available there, it's a moot point.

You don't trade 2 assets for an asset that has done nothing but depreciate since being acquired, never. If you want a dman for a 1st+2nd you get a Barrie, Hamonic, Hamilton, etc who's value has decreased for a different reason other than performance. He's a big dman thats not agile and doesn't put up points, that's literally the mother of all red flags in d.

Barzal, Chabot, Svechnikov, Connor, Samsonv take your pick.

Meloche, Carlo, Kylington, blackwood, aho, dermott, sprong, harkins take your pick.

No hind sight here, I'd rather have/wanted at the time Meloche/Kylington more than Reinhart let alone adding one of the 1st rounders I mentioned. Meloche is a stud.

 

[rasarhdasd]

You don't trade 2 assets for an asset that has done nothing but depreciate since being acquired, never. If you want a dman for a 1st+2nd you get a Barrie, Hamonic, Hamilton, etc who's value has decreased for a different reason other than performance. He's a big dman thats not agile and doesn't put up points, that's literally the mother of all red flags in d.

Barzal, Chabot, Svechnikov, Connor, Samsonv take your pick.

Meloche, Carlo, Kylington, blackwood, aho, dermott, sprong, harkins take your pick.

No hind sight here, I'd rather have/wanted at the time Meloche/Kylington more than Reinhart let alone adding one of the 1st rounders I mentioned. Meloche is a stud.

This is all so true and you put it nicely/simply. It'd be nice if GR is the player people are trying to pump here, he isn't, but I knew as soon as the trade went down that it was a bad one.

It sucks, the Islanders were smart and capitalized on organization that though he was way better than he was because he played junior hockey here.

Realistically he might be a decent bottom pairing guy. There's nothing that suggests he has any offense to his game, he's not a great skater, and like many others have pointed out, and defensemen usually make an impact quicker than we think, GR simply hasn't.

They probably thought they couldn't make those picks and wait for them, but they could have easily picked guys with high upside and then flipped them a year from now. Trading it for a defensive defensemen who's not a good skater, and of all things left handed (!!!!) was a terrible move.

You can try and justify it and say his game isn't about points or whatnot but it's basically been said about every other big 'defensive' defensemen before. it's what they've said about Cowen/Schenn/Gudbranson/McIlrath/Forbort/Smid/Tinordi and eventually teams just realize that being big isn't more important than puck skills and skating.

 

[Halibut]

So...what about Osterle?

According to Scott Zerr....



Considering Reinhart was supposed to be NHL ready back in October this very much looks like regressing to me.

Here's another discouraging Zerr scouting report

Griffin Reinhart – not once has he had a game where you’d be convinced he’s ready for consistent NHL work. His lack of dominance at this level is very unnerving. If he doesn’t put something together after the all-star break, more in-depth concerns will immerge.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Here's another discouraging Zerr scouting report

Can you tell me why anyone should give a **** about what Scott Zerr says about Griffin Reinhart?

 

[phaedrusDH]

Can you tell me why anyone should give a **** about what Scott Zerr says about Griffin Reinhart?

yeah, who is this guy and why can't he spell emerge?

 

[Oilfan2]

yeah, who is this guy and why can't he spell emerge?

Immerge---intransitive verb. im·merged, im·merg·ing, im·merg·es. To submerge or disappear in or as if in a liquid.

Maybe he's correct?

 

[Wretched Oil]

yeah, who is this guy and why can't he spell emerge?

Because he's a ufc guy.

I called him out earlier this thread and got pestered to provide a better article disproving Zerr.

Not a lot of reporting going on for bakco at this time though.

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

Can you tell me why anyone should give a **** about what Scott Zerr says about Griffin Reinhart?

If he has the Kodan Armada at his disposal that might be a reason....

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

they had Gerry Fleming on Oilers Now and he said that Reinhart is playing better and being more "assertive" in his play

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Reinhart doesn't need to become Brad Hunt in the ahl to prove he's an nhler.

That should be clear.

I actually wonder if his demotion was due to the nagging injury. We may just have to see how he does after another offseason of training.

 

[Evilsports]

Can you tell me why anyone should give a **** about what Scott Zerr says about Griffin Reinhart?

Because he fits the doomsayers narrative, simple.

 

[Halibut]

Can you tell me why anyone should give a **** about what Scott Zerr says about Griffin Reinhart?

For the same reason anyone cares about the opinions of those who saw him on the Oil Kings. Apparently he's watching Bakersfield and giving his opinion on what he's seeing.

 

[I am the Liquor]

For the same reason anyone cares about the opinions of those who saw him on the Oil Kings. Apparently he's watching Bakersfield and giving his opinion on what he's seeing.

Is he watching the games? Do you have confirmation of this?

 

[Samus44]

You don't trade 2 assets for an asset that has done nothing but depreciate since being acquired, never. If you want a dman for a 1st+2nd you get a Barrie, Hamonic, Hamilton, etc who's value has decreased for a different reason other than performance. He's a big dman thats not agile and doesn't put up points, that's literally the mother of all red flags in d.

Barzal, Chabot, Svechnikov, Connor, Samsonv take your pick.

Meloche, Carlo, Kylington, blackwood, aho, dermott, sprong, harkins take your pick.

No hind sight here, I'd rather have/wanted at the time Meloche/Kylington more than Reinhart let alone adding one of the 1st rounders I mentioned. Meloche is a stud.

You realize almost nobody is a fan of the trade it's just that many aren't fans of making assumptions on what a 21 year old dman will be based of little information. Just because you don't like the trade doesn't mean you need to label a 21 year old a bust. Reinhart is at an age that our current rookie D in Davidson was an AHL rookie at, he too had to work on his skating. Reinhart isn't a bust yet, he may not be as good as hoped but he could still be Karl Alzner. Remember when he was a bust too?

 

[Halibut]

Is he watching the games? Do you have confirmation of this?

He's in California and giving recaps of the games. If he's not watching the games live they must be broadcasting them on tv, radio or internet but that's pretty hard to imagine.

I cant say he's a great judge of hockey talent but I cant say that about anyone on the internet so it's a data point if nothing else.

 

[easternrefugee]

Can you tell me why anyone should give a **** about what Scott Zerr says about Griffin Reinhart?

Scott Zerr is a blogger for Oilernations. He lived in Edmonton for years and is now a resident here in Bako. He has been right on all of his blogs so far.

As for GR, he is also right in that I expected way more than what we have. He is ok at defense. He usually is fine but can make some really bad outlet passes. he cannot skate the puck out of the zone and he does not play a physical game. he hesitates to shoot the puck which is a common occurrence here. Players like Musil are more consistent. osterle shoots more. I like having him only because our defense is very suspect. I also like having Nikitin.

 

[s7ark]

Here's another discouraging Zerr scouting report

Lots of people were posting similar thoughts about Klefbom. I'm not worried until he fails miserably at the NHL level. Which I haven't seen at all.

 

[Beerfish]

Lots of people were posting similar thoughts about Klefbom. I'm not worried until he fails miserably at the NHL level. Which I haven't seen at all.

He has to actually get to the NHL before he can fail there. The issue really has never been whether he will end up being good enough in a few years to be a bottom end dman.

The issue has always been the price we paid to get a guy who doesn't look near ready to help the team and doesn't seem to flash enough in any real area to be looked at as a #3 guy minimum.

Time will tell.

 

[s7ark]

He has to actually get to the NHL before he can fail there. The issue really has never been whether he will end up being good enough in a few years to be a bottom end dman.

The issue has always been the price we paid to get a guy who doesn't look near ready to help the team and doesn't seem to flash enough in any real area to be looked at as a #3 guy minimum.

Time will tell.

I don't think anyone, even the fans who despised the trade, think that he isn't going to get another shot at the NHL level. Even if it isn't this season, he'll get another shot.

As for the price we paid? Almost every 1st and early 2nd pick looks great for the season or two after the draft. It isn't until they turn pro that we know much of anything about them. Ethan Bear is tearing up the WHL this season. How many are pencilling him in for a future 3/4 role. Check out previous 16th and 33rd picks. How many of those players became stars?

http://www.mynhldraft.com/nhl-draft-picks/16th-overall/160509/
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/draft_bests.php?page=2

Big d-men often take time. We have to wait and see what Reinhart turns into at the pro level. I'm certainly not going to blast Chia for trading away a couple of rolls of the dice for a former top prospect that is nearing NHL ready. I hope he trades more picks away at the draft this year.

 

[guymez]

He's in California and giving recaps of the games. If he's not watching the games live they must be broadcasting them on tv, radio or internet but that's pretty hard to imagine.

I cant say he's a great judge of hockey talent but I cant say that about anyone on the internet so it's a data point if nothing else.

Exactly.
Somehow Scott Zerr isnt legit but yet an HF poster that watched Reinhart in the WHL 2 years ago is supposed to be legit?

It would appear that some would have every up to date negative narrative glossed over because it doesnt fit their narrative. Yet they can produce no other independent report that supports Reinharts development as a positive.

Zip...nada...zilch. Thats what we get on the other side of the equation.

Scott Zerr is a blogger for Oilernations. He lived in Edmonton for years and is now a resident here in Bako. He has been right on all of his blogs so far.

As for GR, he is also right in that I expected way more than what we have. He is ok at defense. He usually is fine but can make some really bad outlet passes. he cannot skate the puck out of the zone and he does not play a physical game. he hesitates to shoot the puck which is a common occurrence here. Players like Musil are more consistent. osterle shoots more. I like having him only because our defense is very suspect. I also like having Nikitin.

Thanks for this. Its consistent with other reports.

But apparently we shouldn't be at all concerned.

There actually is a contingent on here that just wants up to date information on this player. I am part of that group.
I am not on the Reinhart is a bust side of the equation....I would just like to know whats happening with this player.
Any report I have seen is cause for concern despite the ongoing denials from posters who would prefer to put their head in the sand.

I haven't seen one positive report on Reinhart from the AHL...not one.
If there are positive reports then please do post them. I would like to see it.
Until some positive reports reveal themselves then myself and others are completely justified to be concerned about this players development.

 

[Aerchon]

I personally didn't like the price we paid. Didn't like that he was considered to be behind in his development to boot. Don't like that he is a backyard prospect that Mac-T was gunning for. Don't like that he is a lefty. Don't like that he couldn't beat out Nurse and Davidson. But...

People are forgetting to use their eyes and realize the crowded blue line really cloudys up why he is in the minors.

I was ready to torch Reinhart in training camp, preseason, and to start the year if he showed any signs of not being nhl ready. There were no such signs. He played very well and deservedly beat out both Davidson and Nurse to start the year. Something I did not think would happen.

He struggled down the stretch, as most young defenders do and injuries brought up Davidson and Nurse who passed him while he struggled.

There is no shame in that and I certainly won't be surprised if the roles reverse as the season goes on. Nurse is currently struggling atm.

In short people forget defense don't develop in a linear fashion. Or that for most his nhl time he looked good. People forget to use their memories and just focus on where he is now.

He has nhl, size, speed, and IQ. He just needs to put it all together consistently.

I think playing top minutes in Bakersfield is a good place for him right now. It's the right way to develop defensive prospects. Keep him hungry give him lots of ice time.

 

[victor]

I haven't seen one positive report on Reinhart from the AHL...not one.
If there are positive reports then please do post them. I would like to see it.
Until some positive reports reveal themselves then myself and others are completely justified to be concerned about this players development.

I have watched Reinhart on AHL live, and have generally liked what I've seen.

The good:
- great positioning
- great gap control at the blue line, and top of circle
- excellent at breaking the cycle
- footspeed isn't an issue at the AHL level (seems to be about the same speed as Oesterle)

The bad:
- headman pass, doesn't use it enough
- needs to be more physical on the boards, angles players, not hits
- needs to work on his edges and transitions

In general, he seems to be the guy that Fleming goes to when he needs to.

I'd say that if you watch what he does well, he does it really well. Extremely low event player, both ends of the rink.

 

[Beerfish]

I personally didn't like the price we paid. Didn't like that he was considered to be behind in his development to boot. Don't like that he is a backyard prospect that Mac-T was gunning for. Don't like that he is a lefty. Don't like that he couldn't beat out Nurse and Davidson. But...

People are forgetting to use their eyes and realize the crowded blue line really cloudys up why he is in the minors.

I was ready to torch Reinhart in training camp, preseason, and to start the year if he showed any signs of not being nhl ready. There were no such signs. He played very well and deservedly beat out both Davidson and Nurse to start the year. Something I did not think would happen.

He struggled down the stretch, as most young defenders do and injuries brought up Davidson and Nurse who passed him while he struggled.

There is no shame in that and I certainly won't be surprised if the roles reverse as the season goes on. Nurse is currently struggling atm.

In short people forget defense don't develop in a linear fashion. Or that for most his nhl time he looked good. People forget to use their memories and just focus on where he is now.

He has nhl, size, speed, and IQ. He just needs to put it all together consistently.

I think playing top minutes in Bakersfield is a good place for him right now. It's the right way to develop defensive prospects. Keep him hungry give him lots of ice time.

Crowded blue line for the team most people say has the worst blueline in the league and a key cog is injured.

Nurse is being fed to the sharks with way too much ice time when he should be the one in the minors in my mind.

 

[McShogun99]

You realize almost nobody is a fan of the trade it's just that many aren't fans of making assumptions on what a 21 year old dman will be based of little information. Just because you don't like the trade doesn't mean you need to label a 21 year old a bust. Reinhart is at an age that our current rookie D in Davidson was an AHL rookie at, he too had to work on his skating. Reinhart isn't a bust yet, he may not be as good as hoped but he could still be Karl Alzner. Remember when he was a bust too?

I loved the trade when it happened. My only problems with it were giving up the 2nd round pick which was an overpay, that GR is a LD when we need RD and that he isn't going to be NHL ready for at least a year. Once he hits his prime he's going to be great for us.