s7ark
RIP
- Jul 3, 2003
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Some posts.
Some posts.
It's not up to me to do the due diligence, it's up to Chia. None of us know who was available but what we know for an absolute fact is that they traded valuable assets for a maybe.
If the rationale behind the deal is that no one else was available so they had to deal for Reinhart then what does that say about the trade?
I'm not saying it's a bad trade because that has yet to be determined. I'm just saying that I'm disappointed that the Oilers didn't get a proven top 4 D with those picks and I also question Reinhart's upside.
And we are saying that he probably did his due diligence and that stance is supported by only 1 too 4 d being moved all off season with mulitple teams needing one.
Yes it sucks that we didn't get too 4 guy with those picks but we got a guy management liked more then those 2 picks. The trade wasn't done cause it had to be. It was done because they either wanted a prospect further along or a player., simple as that. The reasoning isn't flawed and the trade is hard to judge till at least training camp
Certainly picks have their highest value at the draft, and I was pretty upset at the cost at the draft. But we as fans may have vastly overestimated what teams are prepared to give up for a top 4 defenceman.
Other than the Leddy & Boychuk cap dumps, have there been any notable defencemen traded for picks/prospects?
I posted this in the Rumors thread, but I'll post again here: I think the only reason this deal happens is because of McDavid. Suddenly you have the most anticipated prospect since Crosby and a fantastic ELC with which to get things done.
Chia took a gamble on a player who had great defensive skill as a prospect and was the same developmental stage as the 2.0 Core (McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse).
So he's hedging his bets in getting a player he hopes can be a top 4 d-man in the first several years of McDavid's contract.
And he's overpaying, as far as prospects go, except he's also paying for Reinhart being 2 years farther along than Barzal/Svechnikov/etc.
With respect to the other moves, who knows about Marincin/Gryba, and he must have been confident but not 100% sure about Sekera.
And he obviously wasn't ready to pencil Nurse in to the starting lineup.
As a fanbase we really have to get used to not value our picks so highly anymore. The two seasons after this one we have a real window of opportunity. We need to get our heads around that we need NHL players, not a player that might come good in three seasons. I'm all for dumping picks for proven quality. Now is Reinhart proven quality? Arguably not, but he's certainly longer down the road to proven quailty than an 18 year old.
I find it very hard to talk about "windows" when we are the worst team in the league.
How about we get NEAR the playoffs before we talk about windows.
We aren't the worst team in the league though. Close but not the worst.
Also we do have a window, during McDavids ELC is one of our better chances to succeed.
I like the chances that the team is better short term with Reinhart vs someone like Svechnikov. Again, Barzal was not in the cards, nor is he going to make a difference in the short run if ever.
The obvious assumption is that there was a better return out there. Chia had consistently stated that he was looking for defensemen that would fit the team's age profile. I happen to think that this was a wise decision since this team is not poised to win right now. Reinhart may not be the best example of such a player but he is a lot closer than I expected they would get.
People bring up names like Severson who has all of 51 NHL games to his name. He had a great start that was derailed by injury. In reality we don't know if he is the real deal just like we don't know what Reinhart will be. But even with such limited evidence the cost of a guy like Severson would be much greater than a 16th pick and a high second. Devil's posters suggest Draisaitl and I think they are probably right that it would take such a player to get the Devils move him. Teams just don't give up cost controlled defensemen with promise without a premium being paid.
The other end of the scale you have Seabrook or Burns. There is absolutely no evidence that either would have been available at the draft. And if they were that these assets would be close to getting a deal done. Moreover, there are cap and age considerations with both players that need to be given careful consideration.
I also think that calling Sekera vs Petry a wash is downplaying Sekera. I actually like Petry but think Sekera is a clear upgrade.
^well said! we fans always build up draft picks to be likely something they may not ever be. and people should be happy that, even though we lost out on Dougie Hamilton, we were able to sign arguably the best UFA d-man available in Sekera and were able to trade for a further along in his development and likely NHL ready d-man in Reinhart. if Reinhart makes the team this year, these 2 d-men will be an instant upgrade on what we had last year.
and let's not forget, we still have the d-man that Chia apparently wasn't willing to part with and the d-man Boston apparently wanted for Hamilton, Darnell Nurse, waiting in the wings. Nurse brings size, speed and good defensive habits to the Oilers, and though he may not have Hamilton's offensive upside, he plays a much physically tougher game than Hamilton does.
i could care a less about our lost picks at the draft this year because we made the moves we needed to make to get better NOW....the last thing we needed at the moment was more potential down the road when this team needs badly to get out of the toilet and not wait anymore for more draft choices to come along. i hope we trade our 1st rounder next year as well if we can find someone who's really good that can help us win NOW.
So why did Boston make the trade with Calgary if we were offering better picks? We needed Hamilton more than the Flames did and we definitely had more to offer than what they gave up. Somehow we managed to screw up the negotiations and they ended up sending to the Flames to spite Chiarelli. There were rumours going around we were going to put out an offer sheet and that definitely didnt help. It seems like we played hardball trying to get the best deal and they said screw it.
It's not the end of the world but picking up Reinhart is not the kind of move that is likely to push this team to the next level any time soon. It's the kind of move MacT or even Tambellini might have pulled off that could eventually somewhere in the future work out well for this team if everything goes right. It's a mediocre move that totally depends on what you think of his development compared to the abilities of the players that were available at the draft picks we gave up. It's a meh, move. Certainly not a win for Chiarelli and realistically he didnt have many of those this offseason that werent already in the cards and the organization wouldnt have already done with MacT at the helm.
@Halibut....i don't believe *for a second* that Hamilton was ever going to be traded here by Boston. yes, maybe Chia was going to offer sheet Hamilton and the B's picked up on this, and as a result traded him to our rival, but i sure see some hard feeling between the Bruins Old Boys Club, Neely and Sweeney, and Chia, though it seems to be on the B's part. we could have offered the B's #16, #33, #57, #79 and #86 or whatever and i don't believe he was ever going to be traded here. if there were hard feelings when Chia left the Bruins, why would you try to make your former GM look good by trying to make his new team successful? old boys mentality after all.
So Neely, Sweeney and Chiarelli, very much not an "old boys club"
So offer them more than draft picks if that's what it took. Send them Lander or Schultz or heck even Yakupov with a pick coming back as well if you needed to. That would have been a win because Hamilton would instantly improve our blueline and that's what we needed to do. Reinhart doesnt immediately improve our defence, it's that simple. This move was a fairly meaningless move, it's another in a long line of mediocre moves our management has made for years. Doesnt it mean Chiarelli is a crap GM? No, but it also means he hasnt done much as yet to actually improve this team besides wait for the draft picks to develop and sign a slightly better free agent than MacT ever did.
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