Great Fight Debate - III

[CharasLazyWrister]

lets not try to pretend the bruins are one of the bigger physical teams in the league with all sort of defections. waste of time

I don’t see anyone pretending that...

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

I understand there is the non fighting crowd, many in PQ, but many fans cheer the loudest when there is a fight on the ice as it's been part of the game forever. I doubt the NHL wants those fans to stop watching hockey and go watch MMA

I really don’t have a strong feeling on fighting one way or another, but the people that “cheer louder” for fights than they do for an actual game are not the people the league should be (or is) targeting for continued revenue.

The only people I know that do that wouldn’t watch or go to a game unless I, or another hockey fan, invited them.

 

[KrejciMVP]

I really don’t have a strong feeling on fighting one way or another, but the people that “cheer louder” for fights than they do for an actual game are not the people the league should be (or is) targeting for continued revenue.

The only people I know that do that wouldn’t watch or go to a game unless I, or another hockey fan, invited them.

sure they are, those are the fans that will buy things that Don Cherry puts out like rock em sockem hockey, those are the die hards that will go to a team when they are in last place. NHL isn't looking chase away fans that enjoy fighting.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I'm sure the bruins will have a game sooner or later where it breaks out into mayhem. Maybe against Montreal

When was the last game that happened?

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

sure they are, those are the fans that will buy things that Don Cherry puts out like rock em sockem hockey, those are the die hards that will go to a team when they are in last place. NHL isn't looking chase away fans that enjoy fighting.

Based on my observations, I disagree. And that’s all I can really say about that one.

 

[Sheppy]

When was the last game that happened?

This is honestly a great question. I have no idea...

All i really remember from last year is a bunch of non-fighters on Boston getting beat up. Well, that and a great fight between Miller and Deslauriers. I know a game between the Leafs and Bruins got a tad heated last year.

Seems like most hatred is from teams out west.

 

[sarge88]

When was the last game that happened?

2011?
Sigh.

 

[member 96824]

B’s have played most of their games on the road with the lead

what’s a fight going to do in that scenario?

 

[sarge88]

Based on my observations, I disagree. And that’s all I can really say about that one.

Hard to be definitive either way.

I think there's a big % of fans who enjoy the fights and they often seem to be the guys in the $200 replica jerseys, probably buying more than two $10 beers at the games, probably subscribe to Center Ice as well.

There's another big crowd, probably buying more expensive seats, but showing up after work in a tie or at least casual Friday clothes.

In the end, it really doesn't matter because fighting is going down and it becomes a personal thing.

I liked the game much better in the 80's and 90's when there was a lot more dislike among teams.

Top to bottom, I don't think the skill level was as good as today, especially goaltending, but to me, maybe just because of my age at the time, more games seemed like events.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Hard to be definitive either way.

I think there's a big % of fans who enjoy the fights and they often seem to be the guys in the $200 replica jerseys, probably buying more than two $10 beers at the games, probably subscribe to Center Ice as well.

There's another big crowd, probably buying more expensive seats, but showing up after work in a tie or at least casual Friday clothes.

In the end, it really doesn't matter because fighting is going down and it becomes a personal thing.

I liked the game much better in the 80's and 90's when there was a lot more dislike among teams.

Top to bottom, I don't think the skill level was as good as today, especially goaltending, but to me, maybe just because of my age at the time, more games seemed like events.

It'll stay in Canada. Lots of fighting in Junior. If Boston wants to move on from fighting I doubt they'll notice or care. As long as there is fighting in the NHL they'll be lots of people to watch and cheer it up here

 

[LSCII]

It'll stay in Canada. Lots of fighting in Junior. If Boston wants to move on from fighting I doubt they'll notice or care. As long as their is fighting in the NHL they'll be lots of people to watch up here

You keep perpetuating this falsehood as if the Bruins have organizationally decided to move on from fighting simply because they have yet to engage in one this year. That flies in the face of logic though, since the team lead the entire league in fighting majors last year. It's as if you're screaming for them to drop the gloves just to drop the gloves, which is pointless. If and when the time comes, I'm more than sure that someone on the team will answer the bell. They always do.

Fighting just to say your team fights is useless and fans that pander to that behavior are mouth breathing, knuckle draggers that are honestly watching the wrong sport. Go find some MMA, boxing, or kick boxing since that's really what you're looking for.

 

[KrejciMVP]

You keep perpetuating this falsehood as if the Bruins have organizationally decided to move on from fighting simply because they have yet to engage in one this year. That flies in the face of logic though, since the team lead the entire league in fighting majors last year. It's as if you're screaming for them to drop the gloves just to drop the gloves, which is pointless. If and when the time comes, I'm more than sure that someone on the team will answer the bell. They always do.

Fighting just to say your team fights is useless and fans that pander to that behavior are mouth breathing, knuckle draggers that are honestly watching the wrong sport. Go find some MMA, boxing, or kick boxing since that's really what you're looking for.

maybe you should go watch soccer!

 

[sarge88]

You keep perpetuating this falsehood as if the Bruins have organizationally decided to move on from fighting simply because they have yet to engage in one this year. That flies in the face of logic though, since the team lead the entire league in fighting majors last year. It's as if you're screaming for them to drop the gloves just to drop the gloves, which is pointless. If and when the time comes, I'm more than sure that someone on the team will answer the bell. They always do.

Fighting just to say your team fights is useless and fans that pander to that behavior are mouth breathing, knuckle draggers that are honestly watching the wrong sport. Go find some MMA, boxing, or kick boxing since that's really what you're looking for.

I think it's bigger than that.

I look at it from a different perspective --- one that I don't think as many players come from as in the past.

The opposing team is the enemy, trying to prevent me from achieving something that I want.

Given that, there should be an inherent hatred of anyone in another jersey.

I know that you and many others have said that the "staged fights" are dumb and something you're happy is no longer in the game.

I agree to a degree --- although I will admit to getting somewhat excited to see some of the monsters of the 90's and early 2000's pound away in one of those bouts.

What I think is different today is that it takes a whole lot more to get guys angry enough to fight.

O'Reilly, Jonathan, Secord, Neely, etc. rarely engaged in one of those "staged" fights ------ but, because of their attitude toward opponents it took very little for them to get angry enough to fight.

Now, maybe it's because the league is much bigger now and teams don't play each other enough for them to develop that level of dislike, but I also think there's something to be said about where a lot of players are coming from today. There are far more college kids and Europeans than in the 80's and 90's. Guys that (I know I'm generalizing a bit) were less likely to have played in leagues where there was fighting.

In the 80's I'd estimate that 70-75% of the NHL included guys who had at least 10 fights prior to entering the league.

Today, that number might be closer to 20-25%.

 

[LSCII]

maybe you should go watch soccer!

****WHOOOP********WHOOOP********WHOOOP********WHOOOP****

Straw man alert! Straw man alert!!

****WHOOOP********WHOOOP********WHOOOP********WHOOOP****

Has anything happened in any of the games this year that would warrant a player standing up for a teammate? Did another team take some liberties with anyone on the roster with no response from anyone on the team?

No.

Therefore what you're clamoring about is nonsense. If and when something happens AND they don't respond, you have a point. Until that does happen though, you are literally pointless...

 

[LSCII]

I think it's bigger than that.

I look at it from a different perspective --- one that I don't think as many players come from as in the past.

The opposing team is the enemy, trying to prevent me from achieving something that I want.

Given that, there should be an inherent hatred of anyone in another jersey.

I know that you and many others have said that the "staged fights" are dumb and something you're happy is no longer in the game.

I agree to a degree --- although I will admit to getting somewhat excited to see some of the monsters of the 90's and early 2000's pound away in one of those bouts.

What I think is different today is that it takes a whole lot more to get guys angry enough to fight.

O'Reilly, Jonathan, Secord, Neely, etc. rarely engaged in one of those "staged" fights ------ but, because of their attitude toward opponents it took very little for them to get angry enough to fight.

Now, maybe it's because the league is much bigger now and teams don't play each other enough for them to develop that level of dislike, but I also think there's something to be said about where a lot of players are coming from today. There are far more college kids and Europeans than in the 80's and 90's. Guys that (I know I'm generalizing a bit) were less likely to have played in leagues where there was fighting.

In the 80's I'd estimate that 70-75% of the NHL included guys who had at least 10 fights prior to entering the league.

Today, that number might be closer to 20-25%.

Different times though Sarge. Players back in the 70s-80s didn't fraternize. It was easy to hate each other because they weren't friends. All these guys now come up together , players move frequently because of free agency, and the NHLPA is a unified brother-ship. Times simply moved forward and views on competing against each other changed too.

 

[sarge88]

Different times though Sarge. Players back in the 70s-80s didn't fraternize. It was easy to hate each other because they weren't friends. All these guys now come up together , players move frequently because of free agency, and the NHLPA is a unified brother-ship. Times simply moved forward and views on competing against each other changed too.

Agreed.

And it kind of sucks.

Imagine if social media existed in the 80's?

 

[KrejciMVP]

****WHOOOP********WHOOOP********WHOOOP********WHOOOP****

Straw man alert! Straw man alert!!

****WHOOOP********WHOOOP********WHOOOP********WHOOOP****

Has anything happened in any of the games this year that would warrant a player standing up for a teammate? Did another team take some liberties with anyone on the roster with no response from anyone on the team?

No.

Therefore what you're clamoring about is nonsense. If and when something happens AND they don't respond, you have a point. Until that does happen though, you are literally pointless...

notice how Bergeron has to come to Marchands rescue twice, that's what I want happening, and saying fans of fighting should go watch something else, I think it's fair to say maybe they should go watch something else too

 

[LSCII]

Agreed.

And it kind of sucks.

Imagine if social media existed in the 80's?

Thank God it didn't. Would never want my teen years through my 20s documented online for my kids to see...

Absolutely sucks that players don't really have any hatred for each other these days, but that's where we're at. I blame participation trophies for all of it...

 

[LSCII]

notice how Bergeron has to come to Marchands rescue twice, that's what I want happening, and saying fans of fighting should go watch something else, I think it's fair to say maybe they should go watch something else too

So face washes and after the whistle scrums are now items that require a response from the team instead of simply just returning the favor? You do realize that in both your examples, Marchand, a known agitator, was involved. First he went hard into the goalie because he could get away with it in that situation and then put another guy in a headlock. Hardly anything to get your panties in a bunch over. Just some routine rough housing. Which happens in a lot of games, no?

So I'll say it again: where is the cheap shot that happened with no response?

As for saying go watch something else, that's not what I'm doing. I'm saying if you want to see a fight hockey is probably not the best avenue for that wish to be fulfilled. I was saying that if the only reason you watch hockey is for fighting, you can save yourself a ton of time of waiting for a fight to break out in a hockey game and simply watch a combat sport like MMA or boxing.

 

[KrejciMVP]

So face washes and after the whistle scrums are now items that require a response from the team instead of simply just returning the favor? You do realize that in both your examples, Marchand, a known agitator, was involved. First he went hard into the goalie because he could get away with it in that situation and then put another guy in a headlock. Hardly anything to get your panties in a bunch over. Just some routine rough housing. Which happens in a lot of games, no?

So I'll say it again: where is the cheap shot that happened with no response?

Marchand's chippy play will require other Bruins to defend him and having Bergeron doing it is not ideal. Sure scrums happen, the Lucic, McQuaid, Thornton Bruins would have jumped in one of those scrums and it would have been great to watch the Bruins push around Tampa or Toronto in those scenarios. Marchand is a star and he needs guys to watch his back out there.

 

[LSCII]

Marchand's chippy play will require other Bruins to defend him and having Bergeron doing it is not ideal. Sure scrums happen, the Lucic, McQuaid, Thornton Bruins would have jumped in one of those scrums and it would have been great to watch the Bruins push around Tampa or Toronto in those scenarios. Marchand is a star and he needs guy to watch his back out there

Okay, let's cut to the chase and stop beating around the bush here. Are you advocating for the team to get an enforcer or are you lamenting the lack of fighting in hockey? I can't really see which one you're really trying to get at here since you keep bouncing between the two.

If it's pro enforcer, why? What liberties have been taken that they didn't respond to? And even when the team had a roster full of McQuaid and Thornton types, cheap shots still happened to their players with no response from those guys.

If it's the lack of fighting overall, yeah it sucks, but the sport has changed. Either you get over it or you don't.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Okay, let's cut to the chase and stop beating around the bush here. Are you advocating for the team to get an enforcer or are you lamenting the lack of fighting in hockey? I can't really see which one you're really trying to get at here since you keep bouncing between the two.

If it's pro enforcer, why? What liberties have been taken that they didn't respond to? And even when the team had a roster full of McQuaid and Thornton types, cheap shots still happened to their players with no response from those guys.

If it's the lack of fighting overall, yeah it sucks, but the sport has changed. Either you get over it or you don't.

It's both hitting and fighting, the identity of the team in general. There is no getting cheap shots 100% out of the game but against Tampa last week the Bruins were getting outhit and out muscled. I like the Bruins to be the more physical team bc I feel it's an advantage. Fighting is an add on to the teams identity, if theres a questionable hit,I like it when a teammate steps in right away and makes the guy answer for it. Staged fights I like for entertainment value. As a viewer of hockey I think it's an acceptable opinion bc fighting in hockey is a tradition.

 

[LSCII]

It's both hitting and fighting, the identity of the team in general. There is no getting cheap shots 100% out of the game but against Tampa last week the Bruins were getting outhit and out muscled. I like the Bruins to be the more physical team bc I feel it's an advantage. Fighting is an add on to the teams identity, if theres a questionable hit,I like it when a teammate steps in right away and makes the guy answer for it. Staged fights I like for entertainment value, as a viewer hockey I think it's an acceptable opinion bc fighting in hockey is a tradition.

Hitting and being outhit is a different argument, and one of the reasons supposedly why Ritchie is here. Given he's lousy and not hitting, I'm not sure that's the best way to go.

In terms of these guys that hit, fight, score, and do everything you need, they're few and far between these days. Literally unicorns in today's game and nobody is looking to move them if they're lucky enough to find one. I think what you want is an old school type of game, but the league as constituted now has evolved past that. It's about skill and speed and tying up a roster spot for a dinosaur is not smart. Hence why having Ritchie and Backes here is problematic.

 

[Sheppy]

I love watching Reaves and Carrier out there on the 4th line for Vegas though, those guys do not let the other team breathe without hammering them.

57 hits this year between the two and they're averaging less than 10 mins a game.

The entire Bruins forward group has 82 i believe.

 

[LouJersey]

I have no issue with people having a differing view than mine on fighting and toughness, but just don't whine like a Canuck fan when a team like the Blues runs you out of a building and start whining they are too cheap and rough and the officials have their whistles in their pockets, etc etc.