Great Fight Debate - II

[Over the volcano]

Andddd we're back going around in a circle again.

 

[LSCII]

Lou also pointed out that McDavid hasn't been touched much since those guys joined the roster (wonder why?). That they are doing a poor job this year kind of speaks to the value of the job.

There is literally no way to quantify any impact an enforcer has on a roster in terms of deterring or preventing any liberties from being taken. You can say it stops things from happening, yet I can just as easily point to a million examples that show it does not. Since it's so hard to justify and prove, I honestly don't believe it's true. Simple as that.

 

[Sheppy]

There is literally no way to quantify any impact an enforcer has on a roster in terms of deterring or preventing any liberties from being taken. You can say it stops things from happening, yet I can just as easily point to a million examples that show it does not. Since it's so hard to justify and prove, I honestly don't believe it's true. Simple as that.

The stats I provide are coming from the mouth of players current and past.

I've kind of stopped replying to this thread, though. I just feel like everyone continues to argue the same thing. Some thing toughness is important, some don't. Some thing it prevents teams from taking liberties, some don't.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

 

[BNHL]

The stats I provide are coming from the mouth of players current and past.

I've kind of stopped replying to this thread, though. I just feel like everyone continues to argue the same thing. Some thing toughness is important, some don't. Some thing it prevents teams from taking liberties, some don't.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

It sure helped Gretzky!

 

[Sheppy]

It sure helped Gretzky!

and Brett Hull... and Steve Yzerman...

 

[Glove Malfunction]

The stats I provide are coming from the mouth of players current and past.

I've kind of stopped replying to this thread, though. I just feel like everyone continues to argue the same thing. Some thing toughness is important, some don't. Some thing it prevents teams from taking liberties, some don't.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

FWIW, if they're coming from players, they are opinions and not stats. Not sure that makes them less valid. Just (as Lonnie rightly points out) impossible to quantify.

 

[LSCII]

and Brett Hull... and Steve Yzerman...

Any anecdotes from players that have skated in the league in the last 20 years? Gretzky, Stevie Y, Brett Hull, etc all haven't laced them up in this new version of the NHL.

 

[Sheppy]

Any anecdotes from players that have skated in the league in the last 20 years? Gretzky, Stevie Y, Brett Hull, etc all haven't laced them up in this new version of the NHL.

I remember Kessel saying he played bigger when Colton Orr was in the lineup.

Again, not saying there’s a need for a Colton Orr type (they don’t exist anymore anyway)

 

[Sheppy]

FWIW, if they're coming from players, they are opinions and not stats. Not sure that makes them less valid. Just (as Lonnie rightly points out) impossible to quantify.

Fair. I have more trust in a guy who’s laced them up at that level than a few people behind a keyboard.

Why do you think McSorley went with Gretzky to LA?

 

[KrejciMVP]

The stats I provide are coming from the mouth of players current and past.

I've kind of stopped replying to this thread, though. I just feel like everyone continues to argue the same thing. Some thing toughness is important, some don't. Some thing it prevents teams from taking liberties, some don't.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

agree, the conversations and many bruins games outside a few are kind of boring now. oh well, the big bad bruins was fun while it lasted

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Fair. I have more trust in a guy who’s laced them up at that level than a few people behind a keyboard.

Why do you think McSorley went with Gretzky to LA?

Because Gretzky wanted him. He felt that McSorley gave him more space. Not saying it's not a real thing. Just saying that no one can say to what extent it actually does.

 

[Sheppy]

Because Gretzky wanted him. He felt that McSorley gave him more space. Not saying it's not a real thing. Just saying that no one can say to what extent it actually does.

Exactly. Gretzky wanted someone to protect him.

 

[DaaaaB's]

Nobody is talking about expecting Chara and or Miller to handle everything.

We are talking about this one specific incident:

Chara can beat up Eichel.
Miller can beat up Eichel.

Eichel knows this. Yet Eichel hit Chara (accidently imo, but whatever).

Why would having a 3rd guy on the team sitting on the bench make Eichel say "Hmm, I know this guy I'm about to hit can absolutely destroy me.... but I'm going to hit him anyway.... oh wait they have another guy sitting on the bench over there, and he's not as big and strong as Chara, but for some unknown inexplicable reason I'm now scared of this smaller and weaker man, so I won't hit Chara"?

Makes no sense.

This post is great. Exactly what I was thinking as I was reading the argument.

 

[DaaaaB's]

and Brett Hull... and Steve Yzerman...

And Cam Neely....oh wait his career got ended by cheapshots. But what about Pat Lafontaine....oh wait. How about Mike Bossy?

People keep talking about how tough the Bruins were 5-10 years ago (they were and I loved it) but do you not remember the Savard incident? Having a tough team didn't prevent it and no one on the ice did jack about it.

 

[DaaaaB's]

Can anyone actually name a team in the league that's both better and tougher then the Bruins?

Definitely not Toronto or Tampa.

 

[Sheppy]

I have said my piece in here a thousand times.

 

[LSCII]

Fair. I have more trust in a guy who’s laced them up at that level than a few people behind a keyboard.

Why do you think McSorley went with Gretzky to LA?

Yeah, 20 years ago. McSorley wouldn't have a place in today's game though, and you know it.

 

[sarge88]

Yeah, 20 years ago. McSorley wouldn't have a place in today's game though, and you know it.

Actually, I think that of all of the muscle guys from that era, McSorely would probably be more equipped to play today because he was a decent skater.

 

[Fenian24]

I have said my piece in here a thousand times.

Yup the pacifists will never believe anything but what they believe so at this point it is like arguing politics with an alt righter vs an anti-fa, pointless and irritating, no facts, no arguments are going to change either sides opinions.

 

[Fenian24]

Yeah, 20 years ago. McSorley wouldn't have a place in today's game though, and you know it.

Actually he would, he could skate, had a good shot and could play D or F reasonably well. Try using a better arguments like Basil McRae or John Kordic. McSorely was only a few steps down from Tocchet as far as a tough guy who could play.

But you may feel Tocchet may not have a place in today's game either.

 

[LouJersey]

Can anyone actually name a team in the league that's both better and tougher then the Bruins?

Definitely not Toronto or Tampa.

Boston certainly wasn’t better or tougher vs Tampa last season. Maybe on paper, not on the ice that’s for sure.

 

[Fenian24]

Boston certainly wasn’t better or tougher vs Tampa last season. Maybe on paper, not on the ice that’s for sure.

And they are much softer without McQuaid this year. BTW last night McQuaid hit Maxi Pax in Vegas, Maxi, being maxi, acted tough but did nothing instead Ryan Reaves fought and beat Quaider, allowing Maxi to be the cowardly little punk he is which is his game. The "I hate enforcers and there is no place for fighting crowd" will argue against this and say it has no place and did nothing because realistically they just hate fighting and want ti gone so the Ice Capades version of hockey can be complete.

And like the only bad Godfather movie I am being pulled back into a pointless discussion with entrenched sides

 

[Therick67]

Any anecdotes from players that have skated in the league in the last 20 years? Gretzky, Stevie Y, Brett Hull, etc all haven't laced them up in this new version of the NHL.

I'll start keeping notes as to who says what, but I hear it talked about on NHL network radio . Current players appreciate it when teammates stick up/fight for them.

 

[KrejciMVP]

And they are much softer without McQuaid this year. BTW last night McQuaid hit Maxi Pax in Vegas, Maxi, being maxi, acted tough but did nothing instead Ryan Reaves fought and beat Quaider, allowing Maxi to be the cowardly little punk he is which is his game. The "I hate enforcers and there is no place for fighting crowd" will argue against this and say it has no place and did nothing because realistically they just hate fighting and want ti gone so the Ice Capades version of hockey can be complete.

And like the only bad Godfather movie I am being pulled back into a pointless discussion with entrenched sides

TSN highlights stunk this morning, they showed none of the drama of that game

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Can anyone actually name a team in the league that's both better and tougher then the Bruins?

Definitely not Toronto or Tampa.

you mean besides the team that currently owns the Cup?