Great Fight Debate - II

[KrejciMVP]

So hockey only has drama if there is fighting?

Seems like you might want to watch a combat sport then.

maybe but whatever version of hockey you're pushing is an automatic change of the channel.

 

[Dr Quincy]

maybe but whatever version of hockey you're pushing is an automatic change of the channel.

Yeah I remember watching the Miracle on Ice game and switching to The Bionic Woman because there just weren't any fights in it.

 

[KrejciMVP]

It is different for sure and I miss all the rough stuff. It's way faster and more skilled today tho so I like that about it. If I could change the game back to how it was I probably would but that's not gonna happen so I enjoy it for what it is.

I get my violence fix thru Boxing, MMA and Muay Thai Kickboxing anyhow.

more skill? that's debatable, Ovechkin and Crosby are great but nobody else really stands out this generation like the goal scorers of old. Pavel Bure would light up this soft league now with the small amount of physical opposition they face in todays game

 

[Sheppy]

We need a player like Lucic so our stars don't get hit!!!!


Oh, wait...

Never said that.

1. The only things I have said in this thread is the fact that I believe the Bruins are small, and too soft up front for the post season. I don't think the Danton Heinen's, Anders Bjorks, Ryan Donato (though, he's playing well) and JFK are answers when the post season physically ramps up.

2. They lack a guy in the top 9 that is physical and isn't lost with the gloves off (basically to take pressure off Marchand and company) - I have no problem with the defense.

I'm kind of at the point where I'm done arguing about the effect of fighting when it comes to momentum, whether that exists or doesn't. I'm likely not changing anyone's opinion on it, and people are not likely to change mine.

 

[Fenian24]

So hockey only has drama if there is fighting?

Seems like you might want to watch a combat sport then.

You are consistent if nothing else

 

[Fenian24]

Yeah I remember watching the Miracle on Ice game and switching to The Bionic Woman because there just weren't any fights in it.

Weak, so, so weak. Not even worth a strawman argument response. How did you survive watching Cherry's lunch pail ac, through clenched fingers and gnashing of teeth over the brutality of the Bruins?

 

[Dr Quincy]

You are consistent if nothing else

As opposed to your ever shifting view on the subject?

I mean, come on, you have to admit that you are steadfast in your belief as well.

 

[LouJersey]

Never mind

 

[DaaaaB's]

Never said that.

1. The only things I have said in this thread is the fact that I believe the Bruins are small, and too soft up front for the post season. I don't think the Danton Heinen's, Anders Bjorks, Ryan Donato (though, he's playing well) and JFK are answers when the post season physically ramps up.

2. They lack a guy in the top 9 that is physical and isn't lost with the gloves off (basically to take pressure off Marchand and company) - I have no problem with the defense.

I'm kind of at the point where I'm done arguing about the effect of fighting when it comes to momentum, whether that exists or doesn't. I'm likely not changing anyone's opinion on it, and people are not likely to change mine.

If you're talking the forwards only, I dont disagree that we're a bit on the soft side. I'm more concerned with adding scoring depth but some toughness up front would be nice. Ideally, they'll add someone who brings both without overpaying.

 

[Fenian24]

As opposed to your ever shifting view on the subject?

I mean, come on, you have to admit that you are steadfast in your belief as well.

Maybe

 

[pkunit]

Great fight the other night! Is McQuaid vs Reaves the end? The last great fight? Man I hope not

 

[sarge88]

So, McQuaid hit Pac, even though he totally knew that Reaves was on Vegas and was one of the few guys who could beat Adam in a fight.

Yet, despite knowing this, Adam still decided to hit Max anyway and face the fight......

I'm sorry, what exactly was your point? Reaves deterred absolutely nothing?

IMO, McQuaid isn’t going to be deterred by anyone. He’s one of the 8-10 best fighters in the league.

 

[pkunit]

IMO, McQuaid isn’t going to be deterred by anyone. He’s one of the 8-10 best fighters in the league.

8-10? What's your list?

 

[Dr Hook]

Yeah, no slug like Pat Quinn ever touched or with a cheap shot back in the pre-instigator rule days when Boston was the Big Bad Bruins...

Yeah, well no one has ever claimed it stopped everything, and as far as I know, that isn't the argument being made here. The players say things were different back then. Who am I to disagree? But whatever the reality of fighting in the NHL is, there isn't even an opportunity to see if players policing the game as was done in the past might at least reduce some of the cheap shots. It really doesn't matter too much what the reality of it is at this point. This thread is going around in endless circles because whatever side you take on the debate the NHL is a different league now.

 

[sarge88]

8-10? What's your list?

IDK...

TBH...the way the league is, I haven’t paid a ton of attention to the fight game.

Not like in the past.

Reaves at 1.
Looch, if he cared is still probably top 5
maybe McQuaid as high as 5-6

I’d have to look further into it..

I’m pretty sure there aren’t 10 I’d put ahead of McQuaid, though.

 

[DaaaaB's]

If Looch gets fired up like he did against the flames last year, I doubt anyone can beat him. Chara could potentially beat Reaves too. McQuaid is definitely top 10 maybe top 5. Wilson, Kassian, Nurse are probably all top 10. Kevan Miller might be top 10 too. Maybe McLeod and Simmonds round out the top 10. I feel like I'm forgetting someone but yeah there aren't many tough guys left in this league.

 

[Sheppy]

1. Reaves
2. Lucic
3. Johnston
4. McQuaid
5. Engelland
6. Haley
7. Chara
8. Wilson
9. Simmonds
10. McLeod

HM: Kassian, N.Foligno, Deslauriers, Miller

Engelland isn't really active, though.

Crazy to think even less than 10 years ago we had..

McGrattan
Orr
Parros
Westgarth
Gazdic
Boogaard
Scott
Peluso
Reaves
McLaren
Thornton

etc

 

[LSCII]

Great fight the other night! Is McQuaid vs Reaves the end? The last great fight? Man I hope not

Great fight? All I saw was Reaves feed it to McQuaid in a really one sided scrap. Nothing great about that unless you like seeing one dude repeatedly punch another in the face with little to no response.

 

[NeelyDan]

I can't believe this is still going on, and that the same fabricated, or obtuse, or intentionally ignorant views are being produced.

Noone says it stops everything.

Noone wants a John Scott.

This one's for LSCII, though - you know what? I'd love a John Kordic on the team. Not a monster like Boogaard or Scott, but a guy the same size whose only real function is to intimidate, and police. I am fully willing to sacrifice one of my fourth line spots for this type of player.

Because I LOVE hockey fights. I LOVE my team having an element that a) prevents some degree of bulls*it and b) provides the ability for retribution if it's not prevented.

It's fun. Hockey is supposed to be fun, and my version of fun includes a John Kordic.

BRING BACK JOHN KORDIC FROM BEYOND.

 

[LouJersey]

Ross Johnston will beat Reaves if they square off IMO

 

[BNHL]

Today's NHL would have no place for Terry O'Reilly,Wendel Clark,Tiger Williams,Rick Tocchet,and many more. Plenty of room for Ulf Nilsson and Anders Hedberg.

 

[DaaaaB's]

1. Reaves
2. Lucic
3. Johnston
4. McQuaid
5. Engelland
6. Haley
7. Chara
8. Wilson
9. Simmonds
10. McLeod

HM: Kassian, N.Foligno, Deslauriers, Miller

Engelland isn't really active, though.

Crazy to think even less than 10 years ago we had..

McGrattan
Orr
Parros
Westgarth
Gazdic
Boogaard
Scott
Peluso
Reaves
McLaren
Thornton

etc

I forgot about Johnston and Haley. Both definitely top 10. I thought of Engellend when was I typing but forgot to add him. He's getting old but still top 10 if he wants. Foligno and Deslauriers are good ads too. Both would beat Nurse most likely.

The difference from even 5 years ago is crazy. Guys like Mcquaid and Haley were middleweights back then.

 

[DaaaaB's]

Today's NHL would have no place for Terry O'Reilly,Wendel Clark,Tiger Williams,Rick Tocchet,and many more. Plenty of room for Ulf Nilsson and Anders Hedberg.

Those guys all had skill to go with their toughness tho. Jay Miller and Lyndon Byers wouldn't make an NHL team today. I don't think anyone in here has said there's no place for tough players in today's NHL. They just have to be able to play the game a bit too.

 

[BNHL]

Those guys all had skill to go with their toughness tho. Jay Miller and Lyndon Byers wouldn't make an NHL team today. I don't think anyone in here has said there's no place for tough players in today's NHL. They just have to be able to play the game a bit too.

They were also players that crossed the line and whose effectiveness was linked to their nastiness,they'd be penalized into oblivion. Can you imagine a Terry O'Reilly that fought twice a year? LB was drafted as a junior Neely,but got suckered into the tough guy role.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Yeah, well no one has ever claimed it stopped everything, and as far as I know, that isn't the argument being made here. The players say things were different back then. Who am I to disagree? But whatever the reality of fighting in the NHL is, there isn't even an opportunity to see if players policing the game as was done in the past might at least reduce some of the cheap shots. It really doesn't matter too much what the reality of it is at this point. This thread is going around in endless circles because whatever side you take on the debate the NHL is a different league now.

Your logical fallacy is appeal to authority

I'm not saying it has to stop everything. But other than the above fallacy, nobody has ever given 1 piece of evidence that it stops ANYTHING.