Great Fight Debate - II

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GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
Jun 27, 2006
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If 10 point players are skill players then the whole NHL are essentially skill players.

Point totals in specific years and skill are two completely different things.

All three of the guys referenced were more than point per game guys at big time D1 NCAA programs. They all could be considered skilled players.
 

GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
Jun 27, 2006
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Your guy is one of the guy's I'd drive to the airport if there's an upgrade coming back, lol.

Well aware. We will just have to disagree on that.

I wouldn’t be happy, but would understand if they moved Heinen + for a young F who was an upgrade. I don’t think he should be moved for a rental because of what I see as a sophomore slump. Topic for a different thread.
 

Dr Quincy

Registered User
Jun 19, 2005
28,713
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Whomever the Bruin was that saw this and did nothing should be cut or traded.

This organization is just baby **** soft and another Bruin knocked out w a cheap shot. Pathetic

That is one very very cheap shot. Send him back down under for that one.
 

LouJersey

Registered User
Jun 29, 2002
68,302
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Graves to Gardens
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That is one very very cheap shot. Send him back down under for that one.

You’re a smart guy and hockey man, your sim team is always good, drafts always fantastic, what do you think the answer is?

Is the answer that the players just need to stop this nonsense? Thugs, retaliation, suspensions, fines....nothing seems to work.

Fighting is way down but that’s it. This shit never stops
 

Sheppy

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
56,660
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The Arctic


Whomever the Bruin was that saw this and did nothing should be cut or traded.

This organization is just baby **** soft and another Bruin knocked out w a cheap shot. Pathetic

It's throughout the whole organization, too. They don't really have a tough guy down there in Providence either.

The fact that not one person went at him is disgusting.
 

Sheppy

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
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Embarrassing. What kind of culture are they establishing here?
The "we're telling on you!" or the "THAT'S BULLYING!" culture, basically every other culture than "We're standing up for ourselves!"

It's even more embarrassing that this happened in the AHL, a league that has quite a few more enforcer type players.
 
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Dr Quincy

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Jun 19, 2005
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You’re a smart guy and hockey man, your sim team is always good, drafts always fantastic, what do you think the answer is?

Is the answer that the players just need to stop this nonsense? Thugs, retaliation, suspensions, fines....nothing seems to work.

Fighting is way down but that’s it. This **** never stops

Walker is 5'8. Providence has Breen, Frederic, Fyten, Sherman... (and had Broll at one point) those are all guys that can fight or are huge or both.

I think first it falls onto the league(s) to take it seriously and do something about it. That's not going to solve it, because as we know, people don't always "think" before they act or react. But, if seriously heavy suspensions are handed out, especially to repeat offenders, that at least gets those guys off the ice. Even if it doesn't change the behavior of others, it will reduce incidents (probably not by a lot) just by that.

On top of that, punish the teams. Put a cap surcharge on players serving suspensions. Make it difficult for coaches to ice guys who give cheap shots.

Work with the CHL, USHL, Hockey USA and others to change the culture. As we see here in this thread, a lot of people take the position that hockey is a game that has, haves and always will have over the edge plays, and in fact think that's a good thing. If players grow up in a game that thinks that manhood and competitiveness is equivalent to outright violence against an opponent in a way that has nothing to do with stopping a scoring chance or getting possession of the puck (this Walker play is a good example of that kind of violent mentality) then that's what they are going to play like when they get to the NHL.

The problems with all that is this:
1. Will the league get gunshy about suspending players if the severity of the penalty goes way up. This is similar to juries voting to not convict a person if the death penalty is on the table whereas they would be if it was life in prison (some studies suggest this happens and that death penalty states see a redution in convictions, but I don't know enough about it to know if this is true).

2) Will the league stand up to owners, teams, fanbases etc when they inevitably make a decision that rightfully or wrongfully is seen as excessive, arbitrary or different than other similar plays (we already see this)?

3) Will fans turn away from the game if it isn't violent enough?

4) Unforseen consequenes. I firmly believe that every decision, even right ones , often have unforseen downsides and effects.

All of this requires strong commissioner, onboard united owners and union all working together. None of those 3 things really exist though so,...
 

Dr Quincy

Registered User
Jun 19, 2005
28,713
10,571
The "we're telling on you!" or the "THAT'S BULLYING!" culture, basically every other culture than "We're standing up for ourselves!"

It's even more embarrassing that this happened in the AHL, a league that has quite a few more enforcer type players.

The Providence Bruins have 16 fights this year. There are 6 teams with more fights, 19 with fewer. 16 fights is also the same number that Hershey, the team Walker plays for, has.

And btw, Chris Breen has a better record this year (according to Dropyourgloves) than anyone who has played for Hershey this year.
 

LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
50,519
22,033
Central MA


Whomever the Bruin was that saw this and did nothing should be cut or traded.

This organization is just baby **** soft and another Bruin knocked out w a cheap shot. Pathetic


Is it wrong that I ask what did Bjork do prior to the punch? I mean, there has to have been a mitigating reason a guy skated up to him and sucked punched him like that, no?
 

Sheppy

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
56,660
59,450
The Arctic
The Providence Bruins have 16 fights this year. There are 6 teams with more fights, 19 with fewer. 16 fights is also the same number that Hershey, the team Walker plays for, has.

And btw, Chris Breen has a better record this year (according to Dropyourgloves) than anyone who has played for Hershey this year.
Breen is a monster, but he comes across as a guy you'd have to kind of force the issue with, and then he will fight. The last season he had more than 3 fighting majors was 2011-12.
 

Sheppy

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
56,660
59,450
The Arctic
Me as well. It makes no sense that the dude randomly skates over and punches him without a reason. And if there is a reason, maybe Anders should realize ****ty actions create reactions?
It's too bad the Bruins don't have that mentality when they lose one of their guys to "shitty actions"
 
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Fenian24

Registered User
Jun 14, 2010
10,403
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Embarrassing. What kind of culture are they establishing here?
And that is the really scary question. Is this what Cassidy and Sweeney are preaching? Get beat up, take the power play so we can get scored on shorthanded? I have been about 40-60 against Sweeney, he is quickly heading into Milbury territory for building a team of wimps as an all time worst GM. Fighting is down, game isn't as physical, I get it, but even in a watered down touchy feelie league the Bruins are soft and it needs to stop.
 
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Fenian24

Registered User
Jun 14, 2010
10,403
13,559
Walker is 5'8. Providence has Breen, Frederic, Fyten, Sherman... (and had Broll at one point) those are all guys that can fight or are huge or both.

I think first it falls onto the league(s) to take it seriously and do something about it. That's not going to solve it, because as we know, people don't always "think" before they act or react. But, if seriously heavy suspensions are handed out, especially to repeat offenders, that at least gets those guys off the ice. Even if it doesn't change the behavior of others, it will reduce incidents (probably not by a lot) just by that.

On top of that, punish the teams. Put a cap surcharge on players serving suspensions. Make it difficult for coaches to ice guys who give cheap shots.

Work with the CHL, USHL, Hockey USA and others to change the culture. As we see here in this thread, a lot of people take the position that hockey is a game that has, haves and always will have over the edge plays, and in fact think that's a good thing. If players grow up in a game that thinks that manhood and competitiveness is equivalent to outright violence against an opponent in a way that has nothing to do with stopping a scoring chance or getting possession of the puck (this Walker play is a good example of that kind of violent mentality) then that's what they are going to play like when they get to the NHL.

The problems with all that is this:
1. Will the league get gunshy about suspending players if the severity of the penalty goes way up. This is similar to juries voting to not convict a person if the death penalty is on the table whereas they would be if it was life in prison (some studies suggest this happens and that death penalty states see a redution in convictions, but I don't know enough about it to know if this is true).

2) Will the league stand up to owners, teams, fanbases etc when they inevitably make a decision that rightfully or wrongfully is seen as excessive, arbitrary or different than other similar plays (we already see this)?

3) Will fans turn away from the game if it isn't violent enough?

4) Unforseen consequenes. I firmly believe that every decision, even right ones , often have unforseen downsides and effects.

All of this requires strong commissioner, onboard united owners and union all working together. None of those 3 things really exist though so,...
How about we just get rid of the instigator and let the players police themselves? Worked pretty good for over a hundred years.
 

GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
Jun 27, 2006
44,395
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The Sticks (West MA)
:laugh:About 6 weeks ago I watched two “star” players from a team get taken out on dirty plays in one game with no retaliation.

The team? Not the uber soft Boston Bruins. It was the rough and tumble Washington Capitals.

The first was Tanev on Kuznetsov in the first period:




The second was Morrissey just grabbing Oshie and throwing him down, head to the ice:



The second one happened in the waning minutes of the game, but what better time to retaliate when you are down 3-1 and not winning the game?

Mind you, this is a Caps roster with Tom Wilson, Devante S-P, Bowey, even Nic Dowd fights occasionally.

Wake up people, this is a game wide issue, NHL, AHL, others I’m sure. For the umpteenth time, having big, tough guys on the ice is not going to prevent cheap shots.

I can’t wait for someone to say that we don’t know that for sure, and that for all we know, WPG would have knocked 3/4 star players out of the game without Wilson in the lineup.

:laugh:
 

Old George

Registered User
Sep 16, 2018
27
11
"Game wide issue or not" It's still an issue, and a very big one that this team has.
Agreed, watching your guy get mugged and turning off to play the puck is ridiculous. You need to have the teams back, if it’s changed to “the league will take care of “ then I can’t enjoy this sport anymore.
 
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