The Athletic - Boston Goodbye Pawtucket - Hello Worcester

roflstomper

Barzal/Connor/Konecny
Sep 28, 2010
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Rhode Island
When the sharks left Worcester the p bruins who Allready considered Worcester their market even when the sharks/icecats where there .told fans in Worcester to just drive down to the dunk if they wanted to see minor league hockey why can’t road island fans drive down to Worcester if they want to see aaa baseball

How many people at a minor league baseball game do you think drove more than 20 minutes to get there. I would imagine a very small percentage. An hour drive is a lot to most RIers. That leads into the fundamental I don't understand about this. 100 million for a local attraction that is useless more than half the year. When you have these teams nearby you realize how "unspecial" it is pretty quickly. No economic boom to a city or area happens because of a minor league baseball stadium.
 

roflstomper

Barzal/Connor/Konecny
Sep 28, 2010
5,668
4,026
Rhode Island
true.

thats why the Pawsox were always top 3 in attendance and pulled in 10k a game when Mondor was still alive. He was a man of the people and made sure the team was part of the community.

Never raised ticket prices in 35 years, handed out countless tickets to every little league, ymca, boys and girls club, etc in RI, kept it a 'take the family out and catch a game' atmosphere.

with Lucchino and FSG you know what youre gonna get...a go take out a 2nd mortgage to take the family to an overpriced amusement park masquerading as a baseball game.

Pawsox tickets are still: $14 for lower level box seats, $13 for mid level box seats and $9 for adults/$6 for kids general admission seats. General admission can sit in the blue seats in the grandstand, or on the grass hill in left field.

at the new Worcester stadium, you can bet on at least tripling those prices

Do you think these two things are closely related in any way and also related to why the team wasn't viable in Pawtucket.
 

BigBadBruins7708

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Dec 11, 2017
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When the sharks left Worcester the p bruins who Allready considered Worcester their market even when the sharks/icecats where there .told fans in Worcester to just drive down to the dunk if they wanted to see minor league hockey why can’t road island fans drive down to Worcester if they want to see aaa baseball

because with the AHL example, the Worcester fans werent being told to drive down to Providence to watch the same team they had for 40 years and was just stolen from them

Do you think these two things are closely related in any way and also related to why the team wasn't viable in Pawtucket.

the Pawsox were and are viable in Pawtucket. Any losses since Mondor passed were inflicted by the FSG themselves. They have done an amazing job of killing the fan interest the past 3-4 years with trying to hold the state hostage for a stadium, trying to hatch a backroom deal to get given real estate in Providence, claiming poor and asking for millions and purposely doing the bare minimum at McCoy letting it deteriorate.

this says it all about how awful they have been...in 2013 the Pawsox won the Championship, attendance dropped in 2014

the Pawsox made money under Mondor...the big difference is he wasnt out to maximize profits, his goal was to bring baseball to people
 

LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
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because with the AHL example, the Worcester fans werent being told to drive down to Providence to watch the same team they had for 40 years and was just stolen from them



the Pawsox were and are viable in Pawtucket. Any losses since Mondor passed were inflicted by the FSG themselves. They have done an amazing job of killing the fan interest the past 3-4 years with trying to hold the state hostage for a stadium, trying to hatch a backroom deal to get given real estate in Providence, claiming poor and asking for millions and purposely doing the bare minimum at McCoy letting it deteriorate.

this says it all about how awful they have been...in 2013 the Pawsox won the Championship, attendance dropped in 2014

the Pawsox made money under Mondor...the big difference is he wasnt out to maximize profits, his goal was to bring baseball to people

It's great they made money under Mondor, but he's gone. The team isn't making money now, and it's in an area that is not exactly conducive to drawing a crowd. The state isn't willing to give much, and Worcester is. You can complain about it all you want, blame whomever you want, but it won't change the fact that the team is not drawing where it is today. It's not making money where it is today. It's not viable where it is today.
 

BigBadBruins7708

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Dec 11, 2017
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good Lord, you can have the greedy SOBs...have fun with that bill. Dont forget since you own the stadium, all operating, costs, upkeep and future upgrades are out of your pocket, not theirs

Worcester funding breakdown:

- Worcester borrows $100M
- FSG pays $30M w/ $6M upfront
- Worcester covers another $70M
- State covers another $35M

$205M out of $240M total cost in public money...
 

BigGoalBrad

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Jun 3, 2012
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Not directing this at any Central MA posters but you know all the Worcester area Red Sox fans happy about this rn are going to go to one game as a novelty and then say 'f this if I gotta pay 12 bucks a beer to FSG it might as well be at Fenway I'd rather cough up 50 for a bleacher seat and drive an hour than spend 40 to sit behind home plate and drive 10 mins.'

Pawtucket had fans who would legitimately rather watch the AAA team in person than stay home at catch the Bosox on NESN. I don't really think that is going to happen in Worcester after the honeymoon first year. Lucchino will make everything too expensive for that to happen. Beers will be at least 10 a piece and a good seat in the infield will be at least 40.
 

Centrum Hockey

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Not directing this at any Central MA posters but you know all the Worcester area Red Sox fans happy about this rn are going to go to one game as a novelty and then say 'f this if I gotta pay 12 bucks a beer to FSG it might as well be at Fenway I'd rather cough up 50 for a bleacher seat and drive an hour than spend 40 to sit behind home plate and drive 10 mins.'

Pawtucket had fans who would legitimately rather watch the AAA team in person than stay home at catch the Bosox on NESN. I don't really think that is going to happen in Worcester after the honeymoon first year. Lucchino will make everything too expensive for that to happen. Beers will be at least 10 a piece and a good seat in the infield will be at least 40.
it’s rumored that lucchino may sell after the Park is built maybe fsg takes controlling ownership at some point I think there a minority owner now
 

Fenway

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Peter Gammons tweeted this weekend that he always considered Worcester an dormant National League franchise.......put the phone down Peter.....now step a way from it......

Are the Philadelphia Phillies a continuation of Worcester's National League franchise?

The National League was so anxious for Worcester to join in 1880 that it changed the rules regarding population, so the city could include bordering towns like Shrewsbury, Leicester, etc. to get up to 75,000. However, after being competitive in 1880 the Worcesters — that was their nickname and don’t let anyone tell you differently — fell upon hard times.

The team was 32-50 in 1881 and just 18-66 in 1882. Things were so desperate in 1882 that for a while Worcester was managed by a baseball writer, Freeman Brown. Imagine today’s equivalent of that — the Red Sox being managed by Nick Cafardo, Michael Silverman or even Dan Shaughnessy!
In any case, it didn’t work. The team was terrible and by the end of the season was playing in front of nobody at its home field, the Driving Park on Sever Street. And nobody is only a slight exaggeration, since Worcester’s next-to-last home game against Troy attracted only six paying customers.

That was a record until the Orioles had to play a game in an empty stadium because of riots near Camden Yards. It could be that more than six fans saw that Troy-Worcester game — maybe somebody was perched on a roof on some triple-decker on Highland Street — but only six actually bought tickets at 50 cents each to watch the game.

Troy won, 4-1, by the way.

By the end of the season the National League was as anxious for Worcester to leave the league as it had been for the city to join. Both Worcester and Troy, the league’s two smallest cities, were kicked out. That left the National League with six teams — Chicago (today’s Cubs), Boston (today’s Atlanta Braves), Providence, Buffalo, Cleveland and Detroit.

Six teams is a lousy number for a baseball league so the National League went looking for two new members to take the places of the two franchises it had sort of repossessed.

So the league admitted New York and Philadelphia, huge upgrades in population from Troy and Worcester. New York, which became the Giants and later relocated to San Francisco, inherited the Troy franchise. Philadelphia took over from Worcester and became the Phillies.
 
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LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
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Not directing this at any Central MA posters but you know all the Worcester area Red Sox fans happy about this rn are going to go to one game as a novelty and then say 'f this if I gotta pay 12 bucks a beer to FSG it might as well be at Fenway I'd rather cough up 50 for a bleacher seat and drive an hour than spend 40 to sit behind home plate and drive 10 mins.'

Pawtucket had fans who would legitimately rather watch the AAA team in person than stay home at catch the Bosox on NESN. I don't really think that is going to happen in Worcester after the honeymoon first year. Lucchino will make everything too expensive for that to happen. Beers will be at least 10 a piece and a good seat in the infield will be at least 40.

To me, it comes down to value. Taking my kids to a Sox game at Fenway is fun, but expensive, and a lot of distance to travel, especially since the kids are young and don't really care about the game. I'd rather be able to take them to a WooSox game for less money, less travel, and not care if we leave early. If the value to do so in Worcester isn't there because Luccino is a money grubbing loser, I won't bother going.
 

Terrier

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Sep 30, 2003
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If they did move to Worcester, the amount of Mass fans going because it's closer/easier to get to would more than make up for the RI fans not attending. I haven't been to a PawSox game in like 20 years (Vaugh Eshelman started the last game there I saw), but I'd go to a WooSox game in a heartbeat.


For a long time I've hopped on the outbound commuter rail(I currently live near Newton Corner) to Worcester to attend hockey events at the DCU Center and could very well see doing the same for WooSox games. The Canal District is just a short walk from Union Station, and several bars and restaurants have opened in that area. I feel for Pawtucket, but McCoy's time had come, per the first poster. Providence would have been great, but the Schilling factor did that in.
 
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Fenway

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Lucchino is working sweat equity for FSG in Pawtucket ( as is Dr. Steinberg) LL lost favor with Henry and Werner after fighting to hire Bobby Valentine.

Worcester will own Polar Park and lease it to the team on a 30-year basis. The stadium’s construction is projected to cost $86 to $90 million, but officials say local taxpayers won’t be on the hook. The entire development area is expected to be “self supportive,” Augustus said Friday.
“No existing city tax revenue will be used to fund the ballpark project,” Augustus said. “In essence, the project will pay for itself.”

The city plans to borrow $100 million to cover the stadium construction, as well as other related costs. Then, by creating a special taxation district that encompasses the ballpark and surrounding development, the city will use new tax revenue generated from the district to pay back the loan. According to the deal, the team is responsible for paying any cost overruns of the stadium’s construction, shielding local taxpayers if the project goes over its estimated $86 to $90 million total.

The PawSox are also contributing 33.8 million toward the cost of building the stadium.

 

Fenway

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For a long time I've hopped on the outbound commuter rail(I currently live near Newton Corner) to Worcester to attend hockey events at the DCU Center and could very well see doing the same for WooSox games. The Canal District is just a short walk from Union Station, and several bars and restaurants have opened in that area. I feel for Pawtucket, but McCoy's time had come, per the first poster. Providence would have been great, but the Schilling factor did that in.

CHB went on the attack this morning

The Schilling factor could not have helped the cause in Pawtucket - The Boston Globe

It’s impossible to prove, but I will go the grave convinced that Curt Schilling’s final gift to New England baseball was his role in driving the Pawtucket Red Sox out of Rhode Island and into the bosom of Worcester. Schill’s $75 million handout from Rhode Island for his 38 Studios venture(it went belly-up two years later) created debt, triggered lawsuits, and poisoned Rhode Island officials against any taxpayer assistance when the PawSox came calling.

Ken Block, a taxpayer watchdog and former Rhode Island gubernatorial candidate, told Providence’s NBC 10 News, “You get burned once, OK, but you get burned a second time, it’s on you . . . The really awful part of 38 Studios — we’ve had three governors, we’ve had two speakers, we’ve had two Senate presidents, none of whom have done anything to bring closure to 38 Studios. It’s no wonder that taxpayers feel burned by it and they just have no appetite to go down this road again.’’

Nice legacy. The Bloody Sock, and soon the sounds of silence at McCoy Stadium. A half-century of Rhode Island hardball history down the tubes.
 

BigBadBruins7708

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Lucchino is working sweat equity for FSG in Pawtucket ( as is Dr. Steinberg) LL lost favor with Henry and Werner after fighting to hire Bobby Valentine.

Worcester will own Polar Park and lease it to the team on a 30-year basis. The stadium’s construction is projected to cost $86 to $90 million, but officials say local taxpayers won’t be on the hook. The entire development area is expected to be “self supportive,” Augustus said Friday.
“No existing city tax revenue will be used to fund the ballpark project,” Augustus said. “In essence, the project will pay for itself.”

The city plans to borrow $100 million to cover the stadium construction, as well as other related costs. Then, by creating a special taxation district that encompasses the ballpark and surrounding development, the city will use new tax revenue generated from the district to pay back the loan. According to the deal, the team is responsible for paying any cost overruns of the stadium’s construction, shielding local taxpayers if the project goes over its estimated $86 to $90 million total.

The PawSox are also contributing 33.8 million toward the cost of building the stadium.



and if anyone believes that, there's a bridge in NY I'd like to sell you.

in addition, Worcester area residents should be very afraid of the plan to pay back the $100M borrowed with tax revenue from "surrounding development" for many reasons.

1. the stadium wont be contributing any property tax revenue with the city owning it.

2. the ability to repay the loans and for the project to be "self supportive" is entirely dependent on other development projects independent of the stadium project...projects which currently do not exist.

3. the track record of new AAA ballparks sparking development is spotty at best, and examples of success have been in cities much larger than Worcester
 
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Fenway

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and if anyone believes that, there's a bridge in NY I'd like to sell you.

in addition, Worcester area residents should be very afraid of the plan to pay back the $100M borrowed with tax revenue from "surrounding development" for many reasons.

1. the stadium wont be contributing any property tax revenue with the city owning it.

2. the ability to repay the loans and for the project to be "self supportive" is entirely dependent on other development projects independent of the stadium project...projects which currently do not exist.

3. the track record of new AAA ballparks sparking development is spotty at best, and examples of success have been in cities much larger than Worcester

Worcester has a terrible record in trying to jumpstart downtown - Exhibit A The Worcester Center Galleria

worcester-common-04.jpg




The Centrum (now DCU Center) did well when it opened in 1982 but when the new Garden opened it was toast.

The Worcester Airport is not connected to any major highway and is fogged in half the time.
 

Centrum Hockey

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Worcester has a terrible record in trying to jumpstart downtown - Exhibit A The Worcester Center Galleria

worcester-common-04.jpg




The Centrum (now DCU Center) did well when it opened in 1982 but when the new Garden opened it was toast.

The Worcester Airport is not connected to any major highway and is fogged in half the time.
the dcu whould be packed every night if the echl team was affiliated with the bruins but the owner in providence whould never allow it
 

Fenway

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the dcu whould be packed every night if the echl team was affiliated with the bruins but the owner in providence whould never allow it

I don't think Providence could stop it as hockey rules are different than baseball but in any event, the Bruins seem happy with Atlanta. :dunno:
 

Centrum Hockey

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I don't think Providence could stop it as hockey rules are different than baseball but in any event, the Bruins seem happy with Atlanta. :dunno:
New England Sports Center - Wikipedia the owner of the pbruins owns a ice center thats in competition against the railers owner Ice center Indoor Ice Rinks & Recreational Facility | Worcester Sports Center Atlanta may not be be in the echl much longer https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/sale-of-the-atlanta-gladiators.2467403/ it dose not seem like the Jacobs care where the ahl/echl teams are as long as they make money from the concessions in providence
 
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BruinsFan37

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The more I look at this the more it smells like Hartford and the Pats all over again...

- Build a ballpark -- on a contaminated site.
- Negotiate with existing tenants for taking over their property

All in 2 years -- that seems like an extremely short time frame to me.
 

Fenway

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I am a native New Englander and I really can not see Worcester being a viable AAA market, at best it should be AA.

upload_2018-8-7_18-51-21-png.133669

upload_2018-8-7_18-52-32-png.133671


Worcester is technically the second largest city in New England but it has no real suburbs like Providence does.

The Pawsox also drew from the adjacent Massachusetts Southcoast

upload_2018-8-26_5-34-50-png.136321


Pawtucket has built up both a radio and TV presence in Rhode Island and that will NOT happen in Worcester.

PawSox Radio Network
920 AMWHJJ*Providence, RI
1340 AMWNBHNew Bedford, MA
1380 AMWNRIWoonsocket, RI
1230 AMWBLQ#Westerly, RI
1320 AMWRNP#Attleboro/Pawtucket
830 AMWCRN#Worcester, MA
1480 AMWSAR#Fall River, MA
1490 AMWMRC#Milford, MA
970 AMWESO#Sturbridge, MA
96.3 FMWEEI#Cape Cod
105.3 FMWPKZ#Fitchburg, MA
1320 AMWCVR#Randolph, VT
106.5 FMWCFR#Springfield, VT
* Flagship # Limited Basis
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
All Saturday Night and Sunday PawSox Home Games to be Televised on myRITV

What the Red Sox don't understand is that fans from RI WILL NOT drive the 40 miles to Worcester.

Other Cities' Stadium Woes Serve Warning To Worcester And The PawSox
 

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