Rumor: Golden Knights reportedly refused to deal Cody Glass in order to obtain Erik Karlsson from Senators
- Thread starter Bart22
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GKG18
Expansion Fan
Pirate Deadpool
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EK can get more than that easily if he has a good season. I'm still worried about his foot, but now it seems like there were other reasons why he was playing below standards.
LadyStanley
Registered User
FWIW, twitter reports that EK was made an offer by Senators today.
But with the organization all ****ed up, I wouldn't re-sign without seeing some changes for the better.
But with the organization all ****ed up, I wouldn't re-sign without seeing some changes for the better.
Think of why they'd say something like that. It's damage control. Whether it's to us or not, Karlsson is moving. Think of it this way. We took the chance on not moving Perron at the deadline for the cup run and now gained nothing from him. Effectively speaking, STL loaned him to us for a year.
Ottawa has zero chance at the cup. Not much more chance at the playoffs. Dorion simply cannot let a cornerstone asset like that hit free agency for nothing. The only question, really, is do they move him this summer or hope his value goes up at the next trade deadline? You could argue that wouldn't help cause any team that makes that deal isn't even getting the full year.
Regardless of all that, this is a way for Dorion to be able to say "hey guys. We tried. We made him an offer and he didn't want to take it. It's Karlsson's decision and not something we could avoid". Every Sens fan will see it for what it is but they had to do it. I'd be stunned if they took the deal.
CupInSIX
My cap runneth over
I think if NYI doesn't get Ryan O'Reilly tonight, they turn to Karlsson and things heat up tomorrow.
edit: literally as I say that, ROR gets traded to the Blues.
edit: literally as I say that, ROR gets traded to the Blues.
God. Waiting to see what happens with the Karlsson's, Neal, and Theodore over the next few days is gonna be excruciating.
I wonder if GMGM got EK and Willy signed with a favorable deal for the former, if Neal could be persuaded to sign a sweetheart deal in the interest of another cup run.
I wonder if GMGM got EK and Willy signed with a favorable deal for the former, if Neal could be persuaded to sign a sweetheart deal in the interest of another cup run.
I think he would make it pretty clear he wouldn't commit to them in their current state so they would be taking a big risk and saddling themselves with Bobby Ryan for a while for a high chance that it becomes only one year of EK.
EDIT: I really think we would be his preferred destination in that scenario.
Pirate Deadpool
Registered User
I haven't looked at the updated cap friendly site for new numbers but do you know off hand which teams that are legit playoff teams have space and could take on 20 mil for next season? The list can't be too long.
The Duck Knight
Henry, you're our only hope!
New Jersey is probably the only one. The Canes, Isles and Rangers have the space, but likely aren't anywhere near contention.
I would probably say New Jersey would be able to but I don't know how willing they would be or what their assets look like compared to ours.
I do wonder about this business of Neal being in a holding pattern, though. It would seem to suggest there might be multiple avenues Vegas can take and that maybe we haven't cycled through all of them.
I think the only way we could afford Neal at this point is if Ryan is not included in the deal, but if Ryan weren't included in the deal then we would have to add more. I'm guessing we might be the one pushing the option of adding Tuch to the deal so we don't have to take Ryan and then plan to sign Neal (a "free" asset besides money) to replace Tuch's inclusion and save money towards the cap.
For example.
Option 1: Theodore, Suzuki/Brannstrom, 1st, Clarkson for EK, Ryan. Neal is told he should sign elsewhere.
Option 2: Theodore, Suzuki/ Brannstrom, 1st, Clarkson, Tuch, 2nd for EK only. Neal is signed.
Maybe we prefer 2 but Ottawa really wants Ryan's contract gone and is pushing for 1 and negotiating is going on there.
Pirate Deadpool
Registered User
Sometimes I wonder if VGK is the only one offering to take Bobby Ryan but the hold up is which players and prospects are going the other way and how many pieces does Ottawa want for a deal with and without Ryan in the deal. If VGK has to take both contracts on, then I can see the cap space evaporating after everyone gets paid in 2019.
This is why a 2 year Reaves deal is bad at the amount he got. 2019 is going to put us with every other team with cap issues if this deal goes through.
Forget signing Gusev if we have no cap room in 2019. If only Eakin was a little better he could be moved but no one is taking that contract off our hands. Tatar might be one would could be moved if he scores 25 goals next season.
This is why a 2 year Reaves deal is bad at the amount he got. 2019 is going to put us with every other team with cap issues if this deal goes through.
Forget signing Gusev if we have no cap room in 2019. If only Eakin was a little better he could be moved but no one is taking that contract off our hands. Tatar might be one would could be moved if he scores 25 goals next season.
CupInSIX
My cap runneth over
If they would just retain something small like 2.5m on Ryan's contract...I know it's Ottawa and they hate the idea of spending anywhere near 70m, but this is probably their best scenario.
Or just, yknow, move Ryan somewhere else...
I'm really lukewarm on the idea of adding Ryan and giving an insane contract to Karlsson while giving up someone like Theodore and one or two of our best prospects. Especially now that the Neal money could be spent on someone like Enstrom for 2 years.
razor ray
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- May 8, 2011
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LadyStanley
Registered User
According to Brooks, Ottawa has given permission to other teams to talk extension with Karlsson. Vegas would lose a big bargaining chip in that case. Karlsson with an extension signed gets a lot more value for Ottawa. The whole reason you could underbid for him was the uncertainty with his contract future. What it comes out to then is McPhee has to pay EK 11 million for 7 years for sure and then Ottawa gets to ask for whatever the f*** they want cause the uncertainty is gone.
I'm good banking on the progression of Theo, Hague, and Brannstrom tbh. I don't want Vegas to pay what it's now gonna cost.
I'm good banking on the progression of Theo, Hague, and Brannstrom tbh. I don't want Vegas to pay what it's now gonna cost.
I don't get what you're saying here. Or what the issue is.
If they were ever going to trade him, they were always going to allow him to talk extension with a new team. That has never been in doubt.
I don't think it's that simple but my thinking is this.
Without opening the door to contract negotiations from other clubs, Karlsson's valuation is dogshit because it's a trade for a rental that everyone's grandmother knows won't re-sign in Ottawa.
Opening the door, teams still know he won't be back in Ottawa, but. It's not the new team and EK signing the contract. It's Ottawa signing Karlsson to the negotiated deal and trading the player and contract off. The value spikes because it's in Ottawa's power not to go through with the contract signing if they don't get what they want in the trade negotiations. They don't have to be the contract mediator and player trader. They have the power to wait it out until the next trade deadline to trade EK off to a desperate buyer trying to make a run at the Finals. Sure they could still end up losers if the proposals they get at that juncture are weaker but they still end up getting something.
The point is, taking on the role of contract extension mediator gives leverage back to Ottawa. Not total leverage to ask for what Karlsson is truly worth, but more leverage than they'd have just trading off what's left of EK's contract.
I suppose at the same time, if they're still intent on using Karlsson as a vehicle to dump Ryan's contract, that prices a lot of teams out. But I don't think it's been clear if that's Ottawa's desire, or Vegas' concession to lower the price of the deal.
I wouldn't have ever wanted to give up any assets without knowing EK was here long term. No GM was going to do that. Ottawa wouldn't want a terrible return, so this is always a step they were going to take.
What I would be willing for Vegas to offer is still mostly the same.
Vegas
Glass, Theodore, 2 1sts (We have enough 2nds and 3rds in the next two years to jump back into the late 1st round both years and still have a pick in almost every early round)
Ottawa
Signed EK, Ryan (he brings the value down but could still be a very useful, if expensive, middle six scoring winger for us for two seasons before amnesty buyouts become a thing again in 2020)
razor ray
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- May 8, 2011
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LadyStanley
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CupInSIX
My cap runneth over
That would put the team around 83-86 million in cap by 2019-2020 (after dumping Merrill & Eakin's cap)
I would probably put it at the low end of your estimate and the cap is likely to be around at least 82 next season.
We would only have to get rid of Tatar, we could even add some retention, only hiccup is his NTC but that only lasts until TDL 2020 so we could probably convince him to waive it if we aren't picky about a return.
Or, failing that, trade one of Haula/Tuch/Miller for equal value ELC contracts coming in to do a job for cheaper, even if it's a bit less of a job than one of those three would do. Especially with Suzuki, Brannstrom, Whitecloud and possibly Hague ready to step in next year.
However, I could see them just including Tuch in the trade to get rid of Ryan in the deal also.
As has been pointed out, Gusev can only get 900k when first coming over so he could be a good, cheap one year replacement we could re-sign the next year with more cap space.
CupInSIX
My cap runneth over
FWIW Ottawa beat reporter Mike Kelly has been saying last week it seems it's a matter of when, not if, EK is traded to the Knights. Travis Yost reiterated that sentiment today.
Only McDavid is worth losing Tuch, Glass, Theodore and more.
Hague is probably a few years away.
Only McDavid is worth losing Tuch, Glass, Theodore and more.
Hague is probably a few years away.
I didn't mean just throwing Tuch into that deal to get rid of Ryan. Tuch has more value than that. I was not clear when I said that. I just meant he would be on the table to get an EK deal without Ryan attached.
