Go on record: what does MB do with #3?

[Cobra Commander]

Have you not seen Shawshank Redemption......there's always a way out

The only way out is to get rid of Bergevin, only then we can start the healing process.

 

[Runner77]

Have you not seen Shawshank Redemption......there's always a way out

Yeah, through a river of human waste.

And then you look at real life and that supposedly idyllic beach that Tim Robbins ended up in while waiting for Morgan Freeman -- and you find out it was closed to the public due to contamination: Shawshank Redemption beach in Mexico is closed due to public health warning | Daily Mail Online

Sometimes, real life sucks.

 

[jaffy27]

You're normally a very patient guy when it comes to Habs management. If you're setting the bar so high, it means you've reached the end of your rope. Good to see, I don't think too many of us would have given him as much leeway.

Ya.....its in my personality to be patient, but enough will be enough lol

Let's just say I'm not as fond about Bergevin as I was this time last year. He dissapointed me big time with the cap space and the more I look at this Drouin trade, the more I hate it. I was a big time Sergachev fan, was dissapointed when he was traded but I was hoping that Drouin would turn into something special. MYbe he still will but a Sergachev Weber tandem looks pretty good right about now.

You were right when you said he should've fixed the centre problem with that blue chip defenseman.....now here we are, still searching with the bargaining chip gone.

 

[jaffy27]

Yeah, through a river of human waste.

And then you look at real life and that supposedly idyllic beach that Tim Robbins ended up in while waiting for Morgan Freeman -- and you find out it was closed to the public due to contamination: Shawshank Redemption beach in Mexico is closed due to public health warning | Daily Mail Online

Sometimes, real life sucks.

Now that I didn't know....

 

[jaffy27]

The only way out is to get rid of Bergevin, only then we can start the healing process.

It may come to that......

 

[Cobra Commander]

Ya.....its in my personality to be patient, but enough will be enough lol

Let's just say I'm not as fond about Bergevin as I was this time last year. He dissapointed me big time with the cap space and the more I look at this Drouin trade, the more I hate it. I was a big time Sergachev fan, was dissapointed when he was traded but I was hoping that Drouin would turn into something special. MYbe he still will but a Sergachev Weber tandem looks pretty good right about now.

You were right when you said he should've fixed the centre problem with that blue chip defenseman.....now here we are, still searching with the bargaining chip gone.

Radulov was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, i nearly pulled a hissy fit and a meltdown when i heard the bad news. That is when i realised we were doomed and we pissed it all away, I've been cursing Bergevin ever since.

 

[Runner77]

Radulov was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, i nearly pulled a hissy fit and a meltdown when i heard the bad news. That is when i realised we were doomed and we pissed it all away, I've been cursing Bergevin ever since.

For me it was the Subban trade, compounded by the stupidities that went on with Radulov. And the fact of taking 6 years and still not able to land a goddamn top 6C.

 

[Cobra Commander]

For me it was the Subban trade, compounded by the stupidities that went on with Radulov. And the fact of taking 6 years and still not able to land a goddamn top 6C.

Was all that for me too but losing Radulov was the single last straw that broke the camel's back, i lost all hope, i knew we were finished.

 

[waffledave]

Man maybe I am too harsh but I gave up when he failed at the deadline during Price's historic year. A GM that fails to identify an opportunity like that simply isn't qualified for the job.

The franchise breaking moves he made after only reinforced my view while also horrifying me. Like witnessing someone you care about getting murdered.

 

[Runner77]

Was all that for me too but losing Radulov was the single last straw that broke the camel's back, i lost all hope, i knew we were finished.

Not coincidentally, Subban and Radulov were also the two players who put asses in the seats and eyeballs on the tube -- they were a joy to watch.

 

[Runner77]

Man maybe I am too harsh but I gave up when he failed at the deadline during Price's historic year. A GM that fails to identify an opportunity like that simply isn't qualified for the job.

The franchise breaking moves he made after only reinforced my view while also horrifying me. Like witnessing someone you care about getting murdered.

That's a real harsh analogy but I get the extent of how much it robbed us of something we valued.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Man maybe I am too harsh but I gave up when he failed at the deadline during Price's historic year. A GM that fails to identify an opportunity like that simply isn't qualified for the job.

The franchise breaking moves he made after only reinforced my view while also horrifying me. Like witnessing someone you care about getting murdered.

Beginning of the end for me as well. I became a Bergy-hater when we went into the next season with no added offensive help, and the penguins gave peanuts for Kessel. We got Alexander Semin.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Have you not seen Shawshank Redemption......there's always a way out

Nice analogy

I guess that makes Bergevin, the prison director

 

[SOLR]

I was disconnected from Bergevin from day 1. Someone who cares that much about his appearance, clearly doesn't spend as much time as others on the actual problem.

A problematic personality trait for this job. Then, I wasn't the least bit surprised that:

1) We didn't fully rebuild after drafting Galchenyuk (should have).
2) We didn't fix the real problems in any meaningful way ever. Patchwork.
3) We pulled moves after moves that were not logical in the least (Subban, Radulov etc.)
4) The hiring of most management personnel was based on pride vs. competence.

 

[WeThreeKings]

My guess as the draft is a month away.. that the Habs have 3 targets that could be realistic.. and that excludes Svech because Carolina isn't Pejorative Slured.

Brady Tkachuk - They are definitely the type of organization to follow the old school mentality of picking players because of 'playing the right way' in their draft year and ignoring talent.

Noah Dobson - A Q league player in their back yard who plays a smooth skating style that is reminiscent of the Webers, Suters and Pietrangelos, I.E. the type of D man they covet above all else.

Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Highest ranked center, one of the youngest in the draft, showed a clear progression curve which is a Timmins calling card.

 

[Shabs]

I was disconnected from Bergevin from day 1. Someone who cares that much about his appearance, clearly doesn't spend as much time as others on the actual problem.

A problematic personality trait for this job. Then, I wasn't the least bit surprised that:

1) We didn't fully rebuild after drafting Galchenyuk (should have).
2) We didn't fix the real problems in any meaningful way ever. Patchwork.
3) We pulled moves after moves that were not logical in the least (Subban, Radulov etc.)
4) The hiring of most management personnel was based on pride vs. competence.

All of the above, plus the hiring of or keeping incompetent people in positions of power.

But I truly realized he was actually a stupid person who thinks he’s a genius and everyone else is stupid at those press conferences and an ongoing danger to the future of our team.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Within the same ambit, would they be willing to deal or flip their 2nd OA for the right offer or is that completely off the table?

All indications are that they will keep it. Waddell said he would move it, but it would have to be a deal where the offer from the other team makes him say "Wow, they would really do that?" He also has said in his last two interviews that right now, it looks like they'll be picking AND that with the pick, they'll be adding a high skill player to the roster next season.

I don't think any team is going to make a "Wow, they'd do that" offer so I don't see him trading it outright or trading it to move way down in the draft. I could see them trading it to move down 1-2 spots in the draft if they view 2-3 players as roughly equal. Even the chance of that is small I think as teams rarely see guys at the top of the draft as equals.

Hanifin is a commodity that is going to receive a lot of interest -- I'm hoping our putzes are looking to make an offer that can get it done. What do you believe the asking might be on him?

I DO think that after Skinner, Rask and maybe Faulk, he might be the guy that is next available so a trade of Hanifin would not overly surprise me, but I don't think they are shopping him. I would think (but clearly this is only our fanbases opinion and we don't know what the Canes brass thinks), that they would want either a 1 for 1 Jones for Johansen type deal or as part of a deal for a better center. Think Hanifin for Reinhart, Hanifin for DeBrusk, or Hanifin as part of a deal for ROR. Deals like that.

If I had to "rank" Canes players availability, I'd do it like this:

Nearly Untouchable: Aho, Necas, Slavin
Unlikely traded #1: Teravainen, Staal, Williams, #2OA pick, Pesce: Key parts of the team
Unlikely traded #2: McGinn, TVR, Fleury: Probably have more value to Carolina than they would garner in a trade (unless part of a package)
Available for a good deal: Lindholm and Hanifin. Won't look to trade them just to trade them, but if a good deal comes along.
Being shopped: Skinner (for sure), Rask, Faulk
Nobody Wants: Darling, Nordstrom DiGuiseppe
UFAS/Gone already: Kruger (traded), Dahlbeck (KHL), Derek Ryan, Stempniak,

If 2 of Skinner, Rask and Faulk are moved, along with the UFAs/already gone and with adding Necas, Svechnikov/Zadina and Martinook (4th line) and 1-2 AHL guys ready for the jump (Zykov, Foegele), the team would have turned over 1/3rd of the roster. That's a pretty big change in 1 season. None of it matters unless they fix the goaltending though.

 

[waffledave]

My guess as the draft is a month away.. that the Habs have 3 targets that could be realistic.. and that excludes Svech because Carolina isn't ******ed.

Brady Tkachuk - They are definitely the type of organization to follow the old school mentality of picking players because of 'playing the right way' in their draft year and ignoring talent.

Noah Dobson - A Q league player in their back yard who plays a smooth skating style that is reminiscent of the Webers, Suters and Pietrangelos, I.E. the type of D man they covet above all else.

Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Highest ranked center, one of the youngest in the draft, showed a clear progression curve which is a Timmins calling card.

I just really don't want them to draft Dobson. Not with #3. He's exactly the kind of player this regime covets and exactly the kind of player we DON'T need right now.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I just really don't want them to draft Dobson. Not with #3. He's exactly the kind of player this regime covets and exactly the kind of player we DON'T need right now.

They're always going to need a two-way defenseman who can log big minutes and contribute on both ends of the ice.. it's a lot better than taking Tkachuk who is a complimentary winger to a C we haven't had in decades.

 

[Runner77]

All indications are that they will keep it. Waddell said he would move it, but it would have to be a deal where the offer from the other team makes him say "Wow, they would really do that?" He also has said in his last two interviews that right now, it looks like they'll be picking AND that with the pick, they'll be adding a high skill player to the roster next season.

...

If 2 of Skinner, Rask and Faulk are moved, along with the UFAs/already gone and with adding Necas, Svechnikov/Zadina and Martinook (4th line) and 1-2 AHL guys ready for the jump (Zykov, Foegele), the team would have turned over 1/3rd of the roster. That's a pretty big change in 1 season. None of it matters unless they fix the goaltending though.

Thanks again for an informative reply.

Since you're mentioning Zadina in your post, what are the odds that the Canes favor him over Svechnikov? Do you get the impression that the Necas connection may tip the balance?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Thanks again for an informative reply.

Since you're mentioning Zadina in your post, what are the odds that the Canes favor him over Svechnikov? Do you get the impression that the Necas connection may tip the balance?

We Canes fans have no clue so it's why I'm not precluding that from happening. New Owner, New GM, New Coach makes it hard to predict. The scouting staff is the same so I would "guess" that since Svechnikov is #2 in most rankings, that the Canes would choose him, but it's a guess. We are all "fearful", like Habs fans are, that the team does something stupid and picks Tkachuk.

I think the Necas connection would only be a case of "if all else is equal", but don't think it would be a factor to pick a player they feel is inferior. Most fans overwhelmingly want Svechnikov.

 

[Laurentide]

I was disconnected from Bergevin from day 1. Someone who cares that much about his appearance, clearly doesn't spend as much time as others on the actual problem.

A problematic personality trait for this job. Then, I wasn't the least bit surprised that:

1) We didn't fully rebuild after drafting Galchenyuk (should have).
2) We didn't fix the real problems in any meaningful way ever. Patchwork.
3) We pulled moves after moves that were not logical in the least (Subban, Radulov etc.)
4) The hiring of most management personnel was based on pride vs. competence.

I guess I've just been around too long to get overly excited about any Habs front office hire. Once you accept the fact that the ability to speak French trumps all other qualifications, you know not to get your hopes up because you are almost never going to get the best available person for the job. If you're lucky, you'll get the best available francophone but more often than not you're going to have to settle merely for the next available francophone. That's how we wound up with Therrien, although knowing Bergevin, he would have hired him even if he wasn't restricted by language requirements.

So from the day Bergevin took the job, I expected to be disappointed and I have not been disappointed in that regard. The best thing about Bergevin was that he wasn't Gauthier. Next to the Ghost, just about anybody looks good. But as soon as his exhaustive search for a head coach ended with hiring the retread Therrien, I knew that this was just the usual rinse and repeat routine I'd been seeing for 20 years. Nothing that has happened since has altered my view.

 

[Runner77]

We Canes fans have no clue so it's why I'm not precluding that from happening. New Owner, New GM, New Coach makes it hard to predict. The scouting staff is the same so I would "guess" that since Svechnikov is #2 in most rankings, that the Canes would choose him, but it's a guess. We are all "fearful", like Habs fans are, that the team does something stupid and picks Tkachuk.

I think the Necas connection would only be a case of "if all else is equal", but don't think it would be a factor to pick a player they feel is inferior. Most fans overwhelmingly want Svechnikov.

And rightly so, the consensus opinion from where our fans stand is that Svechnikov is the more desirable prospect. There is some dissension about how much better Svechnikov is, but most believe it's Dahlin and Svechnikov and then there's some separation before Zadina. And others still, have several other players within Zadina's tier.

However, what fans see and hear is not always how organizations value players. If the Canes are not overwhelmingly enthused or sold about Svechniknov, they are in a good place on account of Zadina being available at their draft slot. If Svechnikov doesn't move the needle enough for the Canes, I imagine they'd consider trading down by one slot rather than just outright selecting Zadina and foregoing whatever extra value they could have gotten.

 

[groovejuice]

Man are you ever gonna be disappointed.

Bergevin is walking a high wire with Molson & Company. I think his fear of falling will inhibit picks/deals out of left field.

It is still possible though, he'll try to make a big splash. I doubt that would end well.

 

[jaffy27]

And rightly so, the consensus opinion from where our fans stand is that Svechnikov is the more desirable prospect. There is some dissension about how much better Svechnikov is, but most believe it's Dahlin and Svechnikov and then there's some separation before Zadina. And others still, have several other players within Zadina's tier.

However, what fans see and hear is not always how organizations value players. If the Canes are not overwhelmingly enthused or sold about Svechniknov, they are in a good place on account of Zadina being available at their draft slot. If Svechnikov doesn't move the needle enough for the Canes, I imagine they'd consider trading down by one slot rather than just outright selecting Zadina and foregoing whatever extra value they could have gotten.

Wouldn’t surprise me to see the Canes reach out to the habs and see if they’d want to swap picks......what would it take though??

2nd and a 3rd?......maybe one of our goalies?

Maybe our 3rd and Lehkonen for their 2nd and second round pick??

Just brainstorming here....