Post-Game Talk: [GM26] Canucks lose to Devils | 5-6 (Miller, Joshua, Boeser, Lafferty, & Hoglander) | Snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Adequacy

[larueskee]

Lots of blame to go around, Zadorov is awful folks, he looks so lazy and lost. Could not believe how fired up everyone was to get him. Reducing Cole's minutes has hurt his play cause he was not good either. Hughes was only thinking about his stats tonight and he has been piling up the minuses lately. Hogs and Laffy are surprise studs. Back to Zavodka, you are all going to be screaming the same things at him as you do Myers.

 

[PavelBure10]

Myers, Hronek, Kuzmenko, and Demko were brutal in this game.

Cole and Mikheyev were bad.

Tochett and Co late game decision making was equally as bad.

The great Miller, Lafferty and Hoglander.

Hopefully from now on in, Hoglander will be given every opportunity to staple his spot in the top 6.

Time to rest Demko, he was a rebound factory last night.

 

[Raistlin]

The team has 4 engines. Right now two of them are sputtering. Team is not going to win many games unless EP and Demko start to come back from the wilderness. It's a concern because EP, whether he's hurt or not wants to be paid like a superstar in the league, yet he doesn't have the consistency of one, like Matthews in TO. Team need to ride out this stretch as he will eventually come back from this and dominate.

Kuzmenko is not a right fit with Tocchet. He needs to be incredible offensively for the coach to stomach his lack of contribution on the defensive end. It's a team game, Boeser or Miller doesnt naturally play D either, but they have to for team success. Kuzmenko has to adjust, or he will star for a middling team if he just believes playing D is "not his game". He needs to look at Höglander, and may need to be deployed like him until he learns the other side of the ice.

Hronek is being played too much, the dilemma is whether Bear is the right guy to target or do they need a Pesce to play with Hughes. Wings fans warned us that he charges out of the gate and gradually lose effectiveness as the year goes on. Is he a top pair guy long term? Or is he more suited to be a PMD on the second pair? Z will water down his minutes a bit, but he's not exactly a top 4 with a bullet guy either. Right now, Cole, Soucy, Myers, Zadorov are all part time top 4 guys, and it's up to the coaching staff to deploy them according to the competition.

Speaking of coaching staff. Tocchet did not adjust to Jersey's speed. He's as responsible for this loss as anyone else. Myers should never be on the same ice as a player as cerebral as J.Hughes.

He will be mercilessly exposed in the playoffs, he needs to be out coached less. He even admitted that he was singularly focused on the forwards. I'm somehow reminded of him as a player. He zeros in on grit and compete at all times, and fails to realize the soft points of coaching like player day-by-day performance and dynamic matchups like some of the more cerebral coaches.

Love love Miller, how wrong I was about him. But they need to keep winning with him, you cannot lose with him for stretches.

Hughes is the rightful captain. Dependable game in game out like a true superstar. So nice to see him key the comeback in front of his little brothers. I hope they can keep his minutes down to 24 and under after aquiring another top4 defender.

I leave Myers last. It's not piling on, his long time teammates know his qualities, and so do we. After 5 years, he is who he is. When the match up is wrong, the other 5 guys on the ice with him seizes up. Because this guy just spirals, then everything everywhere falls apart around him. I blame Tocchet for this, as everyone knows he irrationally loves the Myers Zadorov types by now, but if your top 4 guy is that limited in usage, that erratic in performance, and does the opposite of elevating everyone's play, it's time to reconsider if he shouldn't be stapled to your bottom pair, and trot him out only in heavy matchups.... Like a DH.

 

[Raistlin]

Well it's the morning after and I'm still pissed. Teams gotta get their shit together. It's a long season and we can refind our game. But something's gotta give.

If you are pissed this morning. Imagine Miller RN. These type of losses eat the guy up.

 

[andora]

I was only able to watch the first

Myers

 

[m9]

solid post if we are discussing one game, but over time for me it's not even rational anymore. myers is always in the mix at key bad points in our games. it often is not his fault, but he's right there. i feel like at a deeper level the team is just out of synch with him on the ice and it shows up in unexpected ways. maybe other guys make mistakes because they are distracted by something myers did or did not do, or maybe they are just trying to hard too adapt to or allow for his style of play.

Yeah not arguing that Myers was bad as well tonight, it was just strange to come into the thread and see basically every single post ripping Myers.. even on the last goal. I had to watch a replay to make sure it was actually 17 out there and not 57 who was on the ice. I just think it was a poor defensive game by a bunch of players and if Myers was the worst then fair enough but there were other issues.

 

[thekernel]

Understated positive moment from last night: I haven't heard the arena that loud in years. I heard lots of folks at the game saying the same thing. I know we lost but....we're so back lol

 

[Bgav]

Tocchet pulled a "Greener" last night and before the winning goal, when there was icing after icing, he did not have the presence of mind to use his timeout.

The players that were left out there were gassed.

Greener was a serial offender of this.

That was a Coaching mistake and Tocchet has made a couple in the past 10 games.

Cant call a time out after an icing

 

[Bgav]

Lots of blame to go around, Zadorov is awful folks, he looks so lazy and lost. Could not believe how fired up everyone was to get him. Reducing Cole's minutes has hurt his play cause he was not good either. Hughes was only thinking about his stats tonight and he has been piling up the minuses lately. Hogs and Laffy are surprise studs. Back to Zavodka, you are all going to be screaming the same things at him as you do Myers.

is this guy a canucks fan lol

 

[Lawzy]

is this guy a canucks fan lol

I fail to see how his comment would imply he's anything but a Canucks fan. You can be critical of the garbage your team is putting on the ice and still be a fan of the team. Now Johnny Canucker on the other hand...

 

[Bgav]

I fail to see how his comment would imply he's anything but a Canucks fan. You can be critical of the garbage your team is putting on the ice and still be a fan of the team. Now Johnny Canucker on the other hand...

I mean he's never posting on this board and he's going after Zadorov like he's been awful. Which isn't even close to true.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

call a time out after an icin

Then break your helmet strap.

 

[Lawzy]

I mean he's never posting on this board and he's going after Zadorov like he's been awful. Which isn't even close to true.

Ah, fair enough. Can't say I've seen him post much around here (if at all) but I'm not that active myself.

My opinion on Zadorov isn't set in stone but my viewings suggest that, unlike Myers, his brain appears to still get oxygen all the way up there in the stratosphere.

 

[iceburg]

What a horrible game. That was probably the worst coverage game of the entire year. And the guy who was most noticeable for doing absolutely nothing...Pettersson. I watched him specifically for 4 shifts and he just floated around. He did absolutely nothing to get engaged in the play.
This was the type of game that he could have taken over. But he didn't even show up. I sure hope there is a physical reason for his underperformance. Because, if not, it is an ominous sign.

 

[bossram]

Yeah not arguing that Myers was bad as well tonight, it was just strange to come into the thread and see basically every single post ripping Myers.. even on the last goal. I had to watch a replay to make sure it was actually 17 out there and not 57 who was on the ice. I just think it was a poor defensive game by a bunch of players and if Myers was the worst then fair enough but there were other issues.

Yeah. People are piling on Myers for the (yes, frankly embarrassing) Jack to Haula goal, but others have had poor performances for a while and don't get the same blame.

Hronek has had weeks of very porous defensive play at this point. But people just remember the Big Shot Go Boom.

 

[Hit the post]

Ah, fair enough. Can't say I've seen him post much around here (if at all) but I'm not that active myself.

My opinion on Zadorov isn't set in stone but my viewings suggest that, unlike Myers, his brain appears to still get oxygen all the way up there in the stratosphere.

Probably evaluating Zadorov last night is that Myers makes pretty much all his partners look like dogshit. At least Myers is consistant in that.

Yeah. People are piling on Myers for the (yes, frankly embarrassing) Jack to Haula goal, but others have had poor performances for a while and don't get the same blame.

Hronek has had weeks of very porous defensive play at this point. But people just remember the Big Shot Go Boom.

I think Hronek gets a longer rope because he's played well for a good chunk of this season so far. Has Myers had that kind of sustained level? Sure, maybe the odd game where you can say "at least he didn't suck" which isn't really the same thing.

 

[cc]

Myers played his best when paired with Soucy. After some overnight reflection, I think he can still be useful with reduced minutes and paired with an experienced defender like Soucy instead of a newbie like Zadorov. Also, thinking charitably, I also think he may be banged up a bit. as he's taken a few pucks to the body in recent games. I think he might be more prone to brain farts than usual when he's playing hurt.

I'm hoping the Canucks sign Bear and he can get up to speed to balance out the right shots and reduce his minutes. Juulsen is just not good enough to be a regular IMO

 

[Hit the post]

Myers played his best when paired with Soucy. After some overnight reflection, I think he can still be useful with reduced minutes and paired with an experienced defender like Soucy instead of a newbie like Zadorov. Also, thinking charitably, I also think he may be banged up a bit. as he's taken a few pucks to the body in recent games. I think he might be more prone to brain farts than usual when he's playing hurt.

I'm hoping the Canucks sign Bear and he can get up to speed to balance out the right shots and reduce his minutes. Juulsen is just not good enough to be a regular IMO

He's not good enough to be irregular either (at the NHL level) imho.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Myers decision are, at times, incredibly confounding, so it becomes almost impossible to rely or be confident on having any clue what he'll do in a given situation.

I've admired his skating stride as he's left his side of the ice to pursue the puck carrier, who's already being covered by two other players. Trying to adapt to that, when you're probably already not really confident with the defensive structure or systems, makes breakdowns inevitable.

As far as I've seen, which admittedly isn't a great deal away from the Canucks, he's played like this his whole career. I think he's just not intelligent enough to be anything but a bottom pairing, low minute player.

Still, one has to admit that he'll string together a series of games where he really does play well. Enough it seems, to keep earning him a lot of ice time and a ton of money. Such a frustrating player, and I wish he would go away, or that the coaches would stop thinking they can somehow fix his game.

if you think of the way that gudbranson completely unravelled hutton when they paired up it is something like that only much less extreme. i think that he is an unusual player who is coachable to a point but ultimately can pretty much only play one way and coaches and teammates have to adapt to that to extract value from him and also have to mop up his weird messes and look the other way.

some of it is from the fact he moves completely differently on the ice from other dmen because of his size and reach. he can cover more space and do certain things others cannot but at a cost of being outmanouevered more often. on a balance sheet it offsets over time but maybe on a team playing a disciplined system that type of player is too challenging to work with or around him.

i've argued in the past he is more valuable than he looks and i still think so. he doesn't have the scowl or edge of a typical hard man dman but even when he is off his game the physical toll he takes out there on opposition forwards is impressive and will be hard to replace. he also keeps score and takes a lot of f*** you penalties the way edler did, which nobody would mind if he didn't also take so many brain fart penalties.

but i have to say at this point i am just not sure this team can get better with him in the lineup. it would be addition by subtraction to replace him with a less good overall but lower event dman.

 

[Lawzy]

Myers played his best when paired with Soucy. After some overnight reflection, I think he can still be useful with reduced minutes and paired with an experienced defender like Soucy instead of a newbie like Zadorov. Also, thinking charitably, I also think he may be banged up a bit. as he's taken a few pucks to the body in recent games. I think he might be more prone to brain farts than usual when he's playing hurt.

I'm hoping the Canucks sign Bear and he can get up to speed to balance out the right shots and reduce his minutes. Juulsen is just not good enough to be a regular IMO

Are you being facetious or do you mean experienced within the Tocchet "system"?

 

[cc]

He's not good enough to be irregular either (at the NHL level) imho.

Yeah. I wish Tocchet put Friedman in instead because I think he's at least an NHL player but I think Tocchet is fixated on size on defense.

Are you being facetious or do you mean experienced within the Tocchet "system"?

Yeah, I mean experienced within the Tocchet system and overall familiarity with the team.

 

[VanJack]

In the last 10-12 games the Canucks have been an ordinary hockey team......the inevitable correction for a team that wasn't nearly as good as its gaudy early season record.

It's important to remember that this roster is still a 'work in progress'. Allvin and Rutherford are far from done. Expect another big trade or two by the TDL and maybe even before that.

It's apparent they really struggle against quick teams--particularly on the blueline. But the twin 'elephants in the room' are Demko and Pettersson. If they're not a lot better, this season could go sideways in a hurry.

 

[Lawzy]

Yeah. I wish Tocchet put Friedman in instead because I think he's at least an NHL player but I think Tocchet is fixated on size on defense.


Yeah, I mean experienced within the Tocchet system and overall familiarity with the team.

Fair enough. I am less and less convinced there is a Tocchet 'system' with every passing game as we begin to see the same braindead defensive lapses and atrocious penalty killing. Could simply be a personel problem.

 

[VanJack]

It was like the Canucks panicked in the last minute, and totally lost their composure. They kept trying to force pucks up the wall, or icing it.

One of the first times this year where the Canucks blueline looked 'overmatched'. But it was hardly a 'goaltending clinic'. Both Vanacek and Demko were borderline terrible.

At least there's a good chance this is just a brief downside blip for Demko. As for Jersey, despite all that talent, they're not going anywhere with the goaltending they're getting most nights.

 

[cc]

Fair enough. I am less and less convinced there is a Tocchet 'system' with every passing game as we begin to see the same braindead defensive lapses and atrocious penalty killing. Could simply be a personel problem.

IMO, some players are high IQ players like Tanev that you can pair with just about anybody and it would work. Myers is far from that. It doesn't come naturally to him and he needs constant coaching and familiarity