GM Chuck Fletcher

[Rich Nixon]

There just isn't any room for all of these prospects. Outside of some depth spots opening up in the next 2 summers, the majority of the roster is in place.

Fletcher said there are 20 players with NHL potential in the organization. You could trade 60% of your farm system and still have a mediocre prospect pool.

Exactly this. At a certain point, you just have to make up your mind about a few of them either way. Hoarding and stockpiling them just denies them all opportunities and hinders their development and trade value. You just have to go "OK, these are our guys, let's do this." And you see if it works-you can turn some of the others who aren't in your plans into established players to fill out the roster, but not ones who are redundant or standing in their way. You always want to keep a strong prospect pool, but you can overstock it.

 

[Prongo]

Is there players you would consider moving Patrick for? Not saying I would but realistically who would you consider moving him for.

 

[Magua]

I've been pretty vocal about not wanting Pietrangelo, but I absolutely would call on him. Fletcher isn't doing his job if he's not calling about every upgrade potentially available.

In a vacuum, sign me up in an instant. My issue is that someone is going to value him as an All Situations 1D type, which is not something that has reasonable numerical support. He's quite good offensively and sneakily average defensively. As a result, I probably don't want to be the high bidder, but there's definitely a world in which the Blues value some of "my" assets more highly than I do and I would pull the trigger.

It's very hard for me to see a player who over the last 5+ years is a statistically negative xGF% producer in top minutes on a mostly good Blues team as being worth selling the farm for. Pietrangelo has always existed in that realm where hype and reality don't match. There are teams who would value Pietrangelo as that top pair/top PP offensive defenseman (Edmonton?), but we are not the team to extract full value out of him and then deal with his flaws, or likely just ignore them. In reality, he's probably more a 1B type who you pair with a better player (not Bouwmeester......though now my brain is on a Sanheim tangent).

He has a 2 year contract, and then a likely 8x8 extension to contend with for a 30/31 year old whose decline may be more accentuated given his baseline numbers. He's John Carlson without the elite PP1 numbers, though for some reason people liken him closer to Doughty or someone. Was John Carlson, while an immensely useful player, the missing piece for this Flyers team?

Obviously, a player like Parayko fits much more like a glove, given his better top pair all-around profile (without the necessary PP buffer) and contract and age. But he's a pipe dream, I'd imagine.

The thought of going after Erik Karlsson for ~$2 mil more per year, with one less year of term for a player who will be 1 year younger than Pietrangelo respective to UFA, and who is simply on a different tier of talent, sounds much more appetizing to me, if that route was taken. And that's a player worth totally reconstructing your PP1 for too. If you can't get full value out of him, you're doing it wrong. I'd rather sniff around Trouba if he goes to UFA too. Obviously, beggars can't be choosers, and if they want to empty their pockets for a WILLING (key word) forward of the Panarin/Stone caliber, I will be far from mad.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It's very hard for me to see a player who over the last 5+ years is a statistically negative xGF% producer in top minutes on a mostly good Blues team as being worth selling the farm for. Pietrangelo has always existed in that realm where hype and reality don't match. There are teams who would value Pietrangelo as that top pair/top PP offensive defenseman (Edmonton?), but we are not the team to extract full value out of him and then deal with his flaws, or likely just ignore them.

He has a 2 year contract, and then a likely 8x8 extension to contend with for a 30 year old whose decline may be more accentuated given his baseline numbers. He's John Carlson without the elite PP1 numbers, though for some reason people liken him closer to Doughty or someone. Was John Carlson, while an immensely useful player, the missing piece for this Flyers team?

Obviously, a player like Parayko fits much more like a glove, given his better top pair all-around profile (without the necessary PP buffer) and contract and age. But he's a pipe dream, I'd imagine.

The thought of going after Erik Karlsson for ~$2 mil more per year, with one less year of term for a player who will be 1 year younger than Pietrangelo respective to UFA, and who is simply on a different tier of talent, sounds much more appetizing to me, if that route was taken. And that's a player worth totally reconstructing your PP1 for too. I'd rather sniff around Trouba if he goes to UFA too. Obviously, beggars can't be choosers, and if they want to empty their pockets for a WILLING (key word) forward of the Panarin/Stone caliber, I won't be mad.

I just don’t want to shut the door on situations where I can be a value sponge because being an NBA style facilitator is on the table here, albeit unlikely. I want to be the guy getting him to his destination and extracting what I need (or what I can use to get it) for my troubles.

We’re not going to discuss what I would put on the table for Parayko lest I be voted off the proverbial island. Pipe dream though, as you said.

 

[Magua]

We’re not going to discuss what I would put on the table for Parayko lest I be voted off the proverbial island. Pipe dream though, as you said.

Spoiler

Does it start with a 'P' and end with a Norris?

 

[baudib1]

Phil Myers is a good prospect, but my philosophy, and certainly the philosophy of this organization's higher-ups, is that you're not going to have success throwing a bunch of very talented but inexperienced defensemen together and hoping for the best. While he's better than the guys on the 3rd pairing, he doesn't check the box of "experienced, stabilizing force and mentor." So he should be playing, but he doesn't solve the problem necessarily.

The biggest problem with the roster is that the "higher-ups" (or just Hakstol) keep coming back to the notion that Andrew MacDonald is a shutdown workhorse defender when he is, in fact, one of the worst players in the league and an absolute sieve who bleeds high danger chances. Myers proved he can play 66 shutdown minutes on a Calder Cup contender, he can probably play a passable 14 minutes a night on one of the worst teams in the NHL.

 

[Rich Nixon]

The biggest problem with the roster is that the "higher-ups" (or just Hakstol) keep coming back to the notion that Andrew MacDonald is a shutdown workhorse defender when he is, in fact, one of the worst players in the league and an absolute sieve who bleeds high danger chances. Myers proved he can play 66 shutdown minutes on a Calder Cup contender, he can probably play a passable 14 minutes a night on one of the worst teams in the NHL.

Right, but that's not solving the longterm problem we're discussing. He already should be playing, I noted that in my initial post.

 

[deadhead]

Or maybe take a deep breath, realize it's still December 13th, and no decisions will probably be made until they get back off the road trip.

This team right now is a bad candidate for a "win now" trade, they're a good candidate for "our underachieving veterans for your underachieving veterans" type of trade.

It makes more sense to save the big trade for the summer.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Spoiler

Does it start with a 'P' and end with a Norris?

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

You can choose which part(s) apply.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Is there players you would consider moving Patrick for? Not saying I would but realistically who would you consider moving him for.

Parayko would be one I'd consider moving Patrick for. McAvoy from Boston would be another.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

MacDonald doesn’t make this team better & typically is blocking a younger player from getting a bigger chance. So you’re accomplishing nothing with him but don’t tell Hakstol that.

 

[Magua]

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

You can choose which part(s) apply.

If he uses a wizard staff for a stick, you must acquit.

 

[James Dirksin]

I went to the Jets game and am going to Edmonton tomorrow;

Please don't Sh!t the bed again

#nomoretouchdowns

 

[deadhead]

MacDonald is blocking Folin, if they thought Myers was ready, he'd be starting in front of MacDonald, but he won't be brought up until they are ready to start him.

I just think people are overreacting, we knew this would be a tough road trip (even if the team was playing well), we knew the goalies are a question mark, now the lines are being shook up. Don't know how much is Hakstol, how much is Fletcher wanting to look at players at this point. Don't know if Sanheim's minutes reflected him being shaken up, and then benched with a lead to protect him. Don't know a lot of things right now, but suspect much will be revealed in the coming weeks.

Fletcher is going to trade some assets, but I don't think a lot of prospects right now, because they're too far away to have real value, and why sell cheap?

He's far more likely to move young players like Laughton, Ghost or Hagg, who are probably near their ceiling, than someone like Rubtsov (injured), Farabee (too far from the NHL).

I don't think he'd move the 1st rd pick, but 2nd and 3rd rd picks are fair game with a farm system this deep, you can do that for one or two years, then you'd better start trading surplus prospects and excess veterans for picks to refilll the pipeline down the road (Holmgren's mistake).

It will be interesting to see what Fletcher learned in Minnesota about not overpaying at the TDL.

 

[DaphneLion]

 

[Rebels57]

What’s everyone’s opinions on Justin Faulk?

Faulk > Hakstol

 

[Rebels57]

I went to the Jets game and am going to Edmonton tomorrow;

Please don't Sh!t the bed again

#nomoretouchdowns

Why do you hate yourself?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

...it's been 4 games, I think we give the GM a bit more than that before we start blaming him for the special teams.

Oh shit, I guess i need a replacement name for Knoblauch. Was calling him that with a reference to the baseball player.
Didn’t mean Fletcher. Was talking about Knobauch. Dont want him to be the HC. He is part of the problem right now

 

[duffy9748]

First, thank you for actually doing the math. It's good bit of work for a message board post, but it's impossible to really discuss without.

Ok, so first we're bridging Sanheim here. Obviously that helps in the short term even if it potentially hurts down the line.

In regard to Voracek, I agree that he's not a negative or anything like that, but because we're in a cap league, it can be extremely tough to find teams who think they're contenders with that much cap space burning a hole in their pocket for a Wing. Likely you would have to do some combination of taking back both money and term and/or Retaining. Ideally you would try to line that up with Sanheim's bridge expiring, but of course that's tricky.

Your numbers get you to ~12MM in space and the premise was also signing Panarin (with which I am completely on board). He's going to be in the 11 range, so figure that leaves you with a million plus the difference between Voracek's current cap hit and your return. If you still have Myers, that's your RD. A reasonable 1B type of UFA Goalie and ELCs for your other 3 Forwards and you might be able to squeeze it in there, but you can't make another Defensive addition of consequence (which again was the premise) unless you're kissing your next patch of RFAs goodbye.

You're also betting the franchise on Hart/Goalie Prospect of your choice to be ready immediately, but that's probably where they're headed, so I can't exactly chastise you for it.

There’s $12M left without moving Voracek.

Regardless of what who they bring in, I think it’s clear the way to best set yourself up to contend for a cup is to bring in 2 more high end players via trade and another key piece elsewhere. There’s no sense in adding anymore depth.

They need to take advantage of the Couturier and Ghost contracts. That’s why Tarasenko is such a great fit.

 

[Striiker]

Imagine being dumb enough to defend Hakstols use of MacDonald.

You’d have to be an incredibly stupid piece of garbage to do that.

And shoutout to our broadcast team for also being that stupid AND getting paid for it.

 

[JayB]

If we can chip Simmonds for 1st and D prospect , it will free our 2nd rounder for trade.

So what kind of return would Hägg/Laughton/Lindblom/Gudas+2nd give us ? Or Voracek+2nd?

Im okey with Stollie and Elliot, they can split the workload to stay healthy.

Chuck, bring Tarasenko home!

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Oh hey, look, it's 2003 again - awesome! Wait, am I in Sweden?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Imagine being dumb enough to defend Hakstols use of MacDonald.

You’d have to be an incredibly stupid piece of garbage to do that.

And shoutout to our broadcast team for also being that stupid AND getting paid for it.

How often does the media or broadcast team call out a guy for sucking shit?
Cant count the number of times I have heard them say player X is a good player or coach Y is a good coach when the opposite is true. National broadcast teams are guilty of this as well

 

[Striiker]

How often does the media or broadcast team call out a guy for sucking ****?
Cant count the number of times I have heard them say player X is a good player or coach Y is a good coach when the opposite is true. National broadcast teams are guilty of this as well

I'm not even expecting them to dump on him, but their constant praise of him and other trash is the problem.

If a player is horrible like he is, just point out when he messes up and then shut up about him. Easy.

But nah, not these idiots. Praise and praise and praise and praise and praise and praise. It never stops.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Parayko would be one I'd consider moving Patrick for. McAvoy from Boston would be another.

Whoa, slow down. I’m a Patrick critic, but no way I’d trade him for Parayko. McAvoy, probably.