Post-Game Talk: GM 49 | Vancouver Canucks defeat Columbus Blue Jackets | 5-2 | Pettersson(2), Hughes, Mikheyev, & Joshua

PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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i dunno how it works in finland but in the usa clinics like this will bend over backwards to work with your (private) insurance to treat you because the insurance companies will pay high six figures for your treatment

it's not open to people without health insurance, sure, but those people aren't getting treatment for their torn acl at all and that's a minority of americans

(also clinics like kerlan jobe do thousands of uncompensated surgeries for those without insurance every year. you're probably not getting dr elattracche if you're in that category though)
Yes.

If you have insurance you can get the normal surgery. Most of the time the insurance company will do their best to find excuses to not pay for it, or pay as little as possible.

If you are a pro athlete, you will get all the best care in the world.

There really should be nothing controversial about this statement.

I mean if you are using an extreme outlier case where you have to fly out of the country to somewhere in Europe for surgery then sure. But considering most athletes in NA actually get their surgery in America, yeah you are pretty wrong.

Sure you won’t get the same type of rehab program but at the same time you don’t need it because you don’t need to rebuild your muscles for intense sports requirement.
Most people will have no issues getting access to the same surgeon that athletes see in America.

What are you arguing then?
 

credulous

Registered User
Nov 18, 2021
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you are 100% wrong that athletes have access to a better class of surgeons. orthopedic surgeons are doing 100s of procedures a year and a tiny minority of those are done on pro athletes

post op care sure. pro athletes can hire full time trainers and rehab consultants and devote far more of their time to rehab
 

arttk

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Feb 16, 2006
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Yes.

If you have insurance you can get the normal surgery. Most of the time the insurance company will do their best to find excuses to not pay for it, or pay as little as possible.

If you are a pro athlete, you will get all the best care in the world.

There really should be nothing controversial about this statement.
Well considering the fact I have been working here for like decade + for multiple employers with different degree of insurance. That’s simply not true.

If you are a pro athlete, the surgeon is the same. It’s just the rehab is different because they need to rebuild you for sporting reasons.
 

PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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Well considering the fact I have been working here for like decade + for multiple employers with different degree of insurance. That’s simply not true.

If you are a pro athlete, the surgeon is the same. It’s just the rehab is different because they need to rebuild you for sporting reasons.
How are you not aware how insurance companies do business?!

How are you not aware how big of a part recovering from reconstructive surgery the rehab process is?!

Sigh... Oh you.


Again. If you are a pro athlete. You have access to better surgeons and better post-op care. This is a fact.
 

quat

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Apr 4, 2003
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there really isn't. my wife operated on multiple pro athletes during her fellowship. she's in onco ortho now so she doesn't do sports medicine but we have friends who work for nfl teams and you can see the same surgeons as tom brady and jj watt
So, I'm hearing we can blame your wife?
 
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arttk

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Feb 16, 2006
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How are you not aware how insurance companies do business?!

How are you not aware how big of a part recovering from reconstructive surgery the rehab process is?!

Sigh... Oh you.


Again. If you are a pro athlete. You have access to better surgeons and better post-op care. This is a fact.
Uhhhh because if you have gone through surgeries you would’ve known. You just need to follow the procedures where you get referrals after referrals until they get you to the specialists. The difference between shitty and good insurance is how much deductable you have to pay. Insurance companies can’t just figure out ways to not pay for it, that’s not how it works. Hell they won’t even operate on you if insurance didn’t authorize it. It’s obvious you have no clue shit works down here.

Uhh normal people rehab is different than athletes rehab. Yeah you need to rebuild muscles afterwards but not to the degree a pro athletes do. So there is no reason for a normal person to get that degree of care post surgery. If you don’t spend everyday working out to fine tune your body for a specific sport prior to injury, then why the hell would you need a team or physios to tailor training programs to get heal up.
 
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krutovsdonut

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Sep 25, 2016
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There is a massive difference between, what us normies get as first of all surgeons and then the post-op care, vs what pro athletes worth millions to their teams get.

I would expect him to be able to play next year just fine. His skating likley wont be back to 100% until after next season.

My worry is what kind of additional damage has he done to his injured knee, hip and lower back playing with a unstable knee.

One thing is for sure. Mikheyev is a tough bastard.


edit. Also I think the orthopaedic surgeons as a whole have overcorrected this past decade. At least here in Finland they have gone from performing surgery pretty much every time it might help, to having people living with tremendous pain for years just to avoid unecessary surgeries.

nope. for certain surgeries that may be true but an acl is not rocket surgery. any competent orthopod can do that. and the full rehab post op care an athlete can access is there if you go get it (and potentially pay for it if you don't have extended benefits).
 

quat

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Apr 4, 2003
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this is the top sports medicine clinic in the world. tom brady's surgeon works there. you can book a consultation with him right now and your insurance will pay for it. ask for dr elattracche
That barber? I wouldn't hire him to tie my shoes!




Jk. I'm just here for the yucks
 

PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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Uhhhh because if you have gone through surgeries you would’ve known. You just need to follow the procedures where you get referrals after referrals until they get you to the specialists. The difference between shitty and good insurance is how much deductable you have to pay. Insurance companies can’t just figure out ways to not pay for it, that’s not how it works. Hell they won’t even operate on you if insurance didn’t authorize it. It’s obvious you have no clue shit works down here.
Uhh the insurance companies employ doctors whose only job is to find loop hole reasons to decline payments.

Uhh normal people rehab is different than athletes rehab. Yeah you need to rebuild muscles afterwards but not to the degree a pro athletes do. So there is no reason for a normal person to get that degree of care post surgery. If you don’t spend everyday working out to fine tune your body for a specific sport prior to injury, then why the hell would you need a team or physios to tailor training programs to get heal up.
Because that physio is the only way to make sure you get your full strength and mobility back in the area being operated.

Everything I'm saying here should be common knowledge. How do you not know this stuff?
 

arttk

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Uhh the insurance companies employ doctors whose only job is to find loop hole reasons to decline payments.


Because that physio is the only way to make sure you get your full strength and mobility back in the area being operated.

Everything I'm saying here should be common knowledge. How do you not know this stuff?
You really don’t know how stuff work down here do you. most insurance don’t employ doctors down here. The only ones that do are quite expensive like Kaiser Permanente and you dont really need to pay anything because the insurance is so expensive. Doctors, surgeons and hospitals operate within insurance networks and they are independent of the insurance. You can go out of network and some insurance will cover some of it and if you go in network the insurance will cover all of it after deductible. Thr first thing any doctor,clinic,hospital will ask you is for your insurance because they are all private and they are not going to mess around and not get paid. The only exception is if you go to ER without insurance. I am guessing that’s where uou get the stories. If you go through non-ER, any procedure you do they will run it by insurance to see how much you have to pay and how much the insurance will pay and then you sign a bunch of shit, pay your share and get it done.
That’s why we are telling you normal people can get the same care as pro athletes. These reknown doctors make bank because they operate a ton and the only way to do that is to take a lot patients. if I want I can go out of network and fly to the Mayo Clinic or Cleveland clinic and get procedure. Insurance will authorize it, I’ll just need to pay more.
 

quat

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Apr 4, 2003
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So sat says he wouldnt be surprised if other players are shut down around the deadline. Wonder who he is mentioning. Entire team looks injured at times, so I have no idea.
See, this is the kind of tanking that's most effective. Take advantage of your generally awful play (well below expected results) and get your injured folks all bolted back together and shuffled onto LTIR and replace them with your AHL lifers, keeping your youth learning to succeed in a winning AHL environment. Trade your better players that won't fit your core's age for youth and draft capital. Give monster minutes to your under-performing massive contract vets. Either they figure it out and add some value, or they sink you to the bottom.

MOAR minutes for your OELs, your Myers, your Boesers, heck, even your Stillmans! Woo Hoo, another top 10 pick to salvage a terrible season.
 

credulous

Registered User
Nov 18, 2021
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the only thing the rich can access healthcare wise that the average american can't are private wings of hospitals. i've been in the 'arab sheik' wing of md anderson in houston and it's nicer than any 5 star hotel i've ever stayed at. full marble suites and teams of personal nurses
 

PuckMunchkin

Very Nice, Very Evil!
Dec 13, 2006
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You really don’t know how stuff work down here do you. most insurance don’t employ doctors down here. The only ones that do are quite expensive like Kaiser Permanente and you dont really need to pay anything because the insurance is so expensive. Doctors, surgeons and hospitals operate within insurance networks and they are independent of the insurance. You can go out of network and some insurance will cover some of it and if you go in network the insurance will cover all of it after deductible. Thr first thing any doctor,clinic,hospital will ask you is for your insurance because they are all private and they are not going to mess around and not get paid. The only exception is if you go to ER without insurance. I am guessing that’s where uou get the stories. If you go through non-ER, any procedure you do they will run it by insurance to see how much you have to pay and how much the insurance will pay and then you sign a bunch of shit, pay your share and get it done.
That’s why we are telling you normal people can get the same care as pro athletes. These reknown doctors make bank because they operate a ton and the only way to do that is to take a lot patients. if I want I can go out of network and fly to the Mayo Clinic or Cleveland clinic and get procedure. Insurance will authorize it, I’ll just need to pay more.

You really dont understand how the decisions get made at the insurance companies end.

How about you find out on your own and then we can talk more.

Start here:

 

arttk

Registered User
Feb 16, 2006
17,483
9,253
Los Angeles
You really dont understand how the decisions get made at the insurance companies end.

How about you find out on your own and then we can talk more.

Start here:

You don’t pay for a surgery and then try to ask insurance to reimburse you. You only pay for that part that you are responsible for and insurance pays doctors directly. If you have been to any clinic in America you would know the first thing you do when you walk in the door is give them insurance, pay and then get care. Doctors won’t even touch or see you until the money is confirmed.
Especially most surgeons operate within hospitals, there is no bloody way any hospitals will let any care happen without confirming who is paying what.
 

PuckMunchkin

Very Nice, Very Evil!
Dec 13, 2006
12,399
10,075
Lapland
You don’t pay for a surgery and then try to ask insurance to reimburse you. You only pay for that part that you are responsible for and insurance pays doctors directly. If you have been to any clinic in America you would know the first thing you do when you walk in the door is give them insurance, pay and then get care. Doctors won’t even touch or see you until the money is confirmed.
Especially most surgeons operate within hospitals, there is no bloody way any hospitals will let any care happen without confirming who is paying what.
Why are you talking about getting treatment without the insurance company paying for it?

What does this have to do with anything I am saying?

Now go back and read the PDF I gave you so you can understand how insurance companies decision making process works.

edit. if you want to be really brave.

Here you can read what kind of work doctors do that work for insurance companies:


Since it seems you didn't know that actually happens.
 

RutherPlan

Registered User
Jan 2, 2022
1,160
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Tocchet speaking gives off huge fake it til you make it vibes. He always sounds like he has no idea what the next word that’s going to come out of his mouth is

I have the exact opposite impression, he's extremely communicative, honest, and relatable. The people who talk like they know everything are usually the ones who have no idea what they're talking about


In this short time, I've seen him speak more to the players on the bench than I ever see Bruce do. Often times, it seems like Bruce is just watching the game like a fan would.
 
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quat

Faking Life
Apr 4, 2003
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I have the exact opposite impression, he's extremely communicative, honest, and relatable. The people who talk like they know everything are usually the ones who have no idea what they're talking about


In this short time, I've seen him speak more to the players on the bench than I ever see Bruce do. Often times, it seems like Bruce is just watching the game like a fan would.
I don't really have much of an opinion on Tocchet, but in this clip he doesn't seem really comfortable, which is understandable given he's not familiar with anyone yet. The vibe does seem a bit forced as Wonton shared, but I expect that will change as time passes.
 

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