PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
Same same.
What I find is that the PR team is doing a really bad job right now for the Canucks.
Mainly their prepared statements are awkward as hell.
Post-Game Talk: GM 49 | Vancouver Canucks defeat Columbus Blue Jackets | 5-2 | Pettersson(2), Hughes, Mikheyev, & Joshua
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
- Start date
What I find is that the PR team is doing a really bad job right now for the Canucks.
Mainly their prepared statements are awkward as hell.
me2
Go ahead foot
Most are when you are trying to talk your way out of a mess. The PR people are trying to put lipstick on someone else's pig.
Slapshot_11
Registered User
- Aug 30, 2006
- 6,901
- 1,509
Enjoy my discount orcatown review:
Good:
Horvat had an extra step or two for sure tonight. Or was it that the Jackets were just tired from their road trip? Either way, he was blowing past guys while being a huge presence offensively. The kind of game that really bumps his stock up.
Miller started the game with that "let me do everything by myself then do something stupid" routine but settled down to become a force offensively. Could've easily netted a hat trick with the looks he had.
The guy sitting next to me was constantly creaming over how Hughes was playing. A bit hyperbolic on his part, but he played a big part in ensuring the puck was on the right side of the ice most of the time. Very good transition/possession play and a deserved goal.
The "mystery" of Boeser consistently picking up points continues! But really, he did play well this time around - thought he had great puck management and seemed to always be in the right place at the right time. Wasn't out there ripping wristers but he did enable his line to keep scoring.
Studnicka and Joshua got a lot done forechecking hard and being sandpaper, noticeable in good ways.
Bad:
I really hoped I wouldn't be here, but... OEL and Myers have to be singled out, because a good chunk of what Columbus generated was off bad plays from these two. Myers being chaotic as is tradition - dumb turnovers from doing stuff like flipping the puck into a Blue Jacket under no pressure, or passing in front of the crease when he has other options. Did make a fair share of good plays to transition the puck from zone to zone, could've scored one even, but as usual the cons outweigh the pros.
Then OEL... soft play after soft play after soft play. Guy got beat easily all night long and if not being beat he was missing assignments entirely, seemed the only reliable path through which Columbus could get presence in the Canucks zone. The two penalties he took was him making up for being as tough to get around as a traffic cone. If he wasn't getting paid like a king he'd be a prime candidate for press box seats.
Lazar... absolute brick hands, puck died often in his stick for no good reason.
Other:
Don't agree with Petey being named one of the stars. Hey did score two goals, but otherwise he was double clutching the puck a lot and turning it over in the zone. Although, it goes to show he's so skilled he can run up the score with the tiniest windows even in games where he's struggling.
Kuz had some good looks and was unlucky to not score on a wide open cage. Didn't notice much outside of that, though.
Garland got the Jackets chasing him around a lot. Didn't get scoring results this game but surely he helped wear down the opposition.
Poor MIkheyev, struggling with an ACL injury all along. Still did well to be a presence along the boards and net a goal, albeit flukey.
Bear played with good jump at the beginning but faded as the game went on. Still, a step up from his prior performances. Ditto with Stillman, not very noticeable but for good reasons.
Delia wasn't tested a whole lot, glad we didn't witness a collapse. Did his job.
Team played with pretty decent structure from the 2nd period on, priority on keeping possession and avoiding high-event hockey was there. Columbus struggled mightily to generate anything useful 5v5 because they were consistently kept to the perimeter by good team defense and transition play. Granted, I didn't see anything from the Jackets that should've earned them a better result - they were just happy to stay out of the danger zone unless one of our usual suspects served up something.
Season is obviously lost, but the team isn't bad enough to draft Top 5 so I do support Tocchet trying to have a semblance of a system going.
Good:
Horvat had an extra step or two for sure tonight. Or was it that the Jackets were just tired from their road trip? Either way, he was blowing past guys while being a huge presence offensively. The kind of game that really bumps his stock up.
Miller started the game with that "let me do everything by myself then do something stupid" routine but settled down to become a force offensively. Could've easily netted a hat trick with the looks he had.
The guy sitting next to me was constantly creaming over how Hughes was playing. A bit hyperbolic on his part, but he played a big part in ensuring the puck was on the right side of the ice most of the time. Very good transition/possession play and a deserved goal.
The "mystery" of Boeser consistently picking up points continues! But really, he did play well this time around - thought he had great puck management and seemed to always be in the right place at the right time. Wasn't out there ripping wristers but he did enable his line to keep scoring.
Studnicka and Joshua got a lot done forechecking hard and being sandpaper, noticeable in good ways.
Bad:
I really hoped I wouldn't be here, but... OEL and Myers have to be singled out, because a good chunk of what Columbus generated was off bad plays from these two. Myers being chaotic as is tradition - dumb turnovers from doing stuff like flipping the puck into a Blue Jacket under no pressure, or passing in front of the crease when he has other options. Did make a fair share of good plays to transition the puck from zone to zone, could've scored one even, but as usual the cons outweigh the pros.
Then OEL... soft play after soft play after soft play. Guy got beat easily all night long and if not being beat he was missing assignments entirely, seemed the only reliable path through which Columbus could get presence in the Canucks zone. The two penalties he took was him making up for being as tough to get around as a traffic cone. If he wasn't getting paid like a king he'd be a prime candidate for press box seats.
Lazar... absolute brick hands, puck died often in his stick for no good reason.
Other:
Don't agree with Petey being named one of the stars. Hey did score two goals, but otherwise he was double clutching the puck a lot and turning it over in the zone. Although, it goes to show he's so skilled he can run up the score with the tiniest windows even in games where he's struggling.
Kuz had some good looks and was unlucky to not score on a wide open cage. Didn't notice much outside of that, though.
Garland got the Jackets chasing him around a lot. Didn't get scoring results this game but surely he helped wear down the opposition.
Poor MIkheyev, struggling with an ACL injury all along. Still did well to be a presence along the boards and net a goal, albeit flukey.
Bear played with good jump at the beginning but faded as the game went on. Still, a step up from his prior performances. Ditto with Stillman, not very noticeable but for good reasons.
Delia wasn't tested a whole lot, glad we didn't witness a collapse. Did his job.
Team played with pretty decent structure from the 2nd period on, priority on keeping possession and avoiding high-event hockey was there. Columbus struggled mightily to generate anything useful 5v5 because they were consistently kept to the perimeter by good team defense and transition play. Granted, I didn't see anything from the Jackets that should've earned them a better result - they were just happy to stay out of the danger zone unless one of our usual suspects served up something.
Season is obviously lost, but the team isn't bad enough to draft Top 5 so I do support Tocchet trying to have a semblance of a system going.
Curious to see if Kuzmenko gets credit for the EP PPG. Not sure that crossed the line. Clip of EP and Kuz on the bench, Kuz saying "that's my goal lolololol"
Would take away EP's only PPG of the season thus far, making it the 2nd time that's happened (Bo deflection a couple weeks ago)
Would take away EP's only PPG of the season thus far, making it the 2nd time that's happened (Bo deflection a couple weeks ago)
canuckking1
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2015
- 12,750
- 13,719
Actually the 3rd. He also got one takenaway during the Vegas game.
This normie had his hip operated on by a guy trained at the Mayo Clinic and was on the Timberwolves and Twins medical staff. There are not enough professional athletes and rich people to keep doctors and surgeons in business.
Guy on my beer league team has his elbow done a few months ago by a surgeon who has done numerous surgeries on professional pitchers.
When it comes to orthopedic surgeries (and most surgeries) a surgeon will have there own hyoerfocused area of expertise. The guy who did my hip will not do knees or shoulders. He does hips and only hips. Someone else in the practice will do shoulders and another knees. As a result there actually aren’t a huge number of surgical choices around. The guy who did my surgery (the hockey player injury as he called it…) was literally the only surgeon in a few hundred mile radius that did it.
What pro athletes have is ability to fly and go to any surgeon they want without issue or rather find the one they are most comfortable with. But those surgeons also operate on normal people.
And I won’t even get too much the misconception of how insurance works. It’s stupid I have to have it because the US is too scared to look like “communists” but the companies are not hard to deal with. In fact in 15 years with a family of 4, a few ER trips, a few surgeries, yearly care, clinic care when needed etc I’ve never had to deal with the insurance company. Also never had them turn down anything by surprise and facilities do pre-authorization. Admittedly we have good insurance, but the plans are very clear what is and isn’t paid for.
The issues with the system as is is the mountain of people who are uninsured and can’t afford care. Or they only have very basic, high deductible plans. But that really has nothing to do with access but personal financial situation. These are folks that do not make a choice between good or bad surgeon, but simply if they can actually afford to get the surgery. Who the surgeon is or isn’t doesn’t enter into the equation.
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ACLs don’t heal naturally, and once the initial swelling goes down they don’t hurt either. Hockey is a particularly easy sport to play through a torn ACL as the only real function of an ACL is side to side movement. He likely tore it enough that the only option was surgery, so they let him play the year knowing that the outcome would be the same regardless of whether it tore more/fully. (I have fully torn my ACL+meniscus and could play sports again within 6 weeks, but couldn’t play soccer because the pivoting/side to side movements caused my leg to buckle)
Which makes this incorrect, at least for pro athletes. Any pro athlete would get this surgery and expect to be 80-90% in about 12 months and 95%+ for the rest of their career. They may end up with arthritis issues, but that won’t occur for decades. It is odd that they think he’ll be ready for camp next season though, that seems a bit early imo. However, like I said, hockey is not a stressful sport for ACL injuries unless you play goalie.
This is also incorrect. E.g., my surgery was done by the Leafs’ head of ortho.
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PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
People seem to think that I am saying the top doctors are hidden somewhere and only come out if you have money. I am not saying that. The same pool of doctors is available to everyone(, barring they are not aboard).
Is it the idea that the best care might not be available in North America that is confusing here?
There is ZERO question that pro athletes will have access to better care than normal people. This is not debateable.
Yes you might be able to get the same doctor.
You might be able to get the same operation.
The pro athlete will have no limitations to what he can get. Anything that exists, he will have access to. You wont.
Things you wont be able to get access to:
- surgeons and doctors aboard
- surgeries deemed still experimental
- post-op designed and monitored by a team of physios and doctors and trainers
- Steroid treatment (sometimes yes, mostly no)
- Stem Cell treatment
And yes, just to avoid another confusion.. If you have enough money, you too can get access to these treatments.
How do you think this disproves my point..?
I'm confused here.
Those weren’t your arguments though. You maintained that normal people don’t have access to the same surgeons and treatments. We do. So now you walk down the road of well this or that or this other thing. These are serious outliers to the argument and not common treatments for anyone. North American Athletes are not flying all over the world to get surgeries in any sort of numbers. In fact that is actually a much bigger industry for us normies because of $$$ differences for those that are uninsured or under insured. Does it happen? Sure but it is extremely minor numbers and doesn’t really make your argument.
Note professional athletes also may not have access to experimental surgeries etc. They are not just governed by insurance like many of us but also by professional insurance coverage on whether it will be allowed and given teams are often paying what the teams themselves say. You just have to see the Eichel case to know it isn’t as simple as jumping on a plane and getting the surgery you want. They can be risking their contract. In many respects they may have less options.
Note professional athletes also may not have access to experimental surgeries etc. They are not just governed by insurance like many of us but also by professional insurance coverage on whether it will be allowed and given teams are often paying what the teams themselves say. You just have to see the Eichel case to know it isn’t as simple as jumping on a plane and getting the surgery you want. They can be risking their contract. In many respects they may have less options.
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
My argument was that pro athletes have access to better treatment. This is 100% true.
You are right about Eichel.
This is a really weird misunderstanding...
It’s not weird because your original arguments were clearly talking about common treatments and access. You’ve now gone down the road of essentially unapproved experimental therapies that are outliers and not common. This is disingenuous IMO.
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
Wtf...?
You misunderstood my earlier point and now blame me for being disingenuous when I clarify what I meant.
There are no better surgeons magically available to athletes. They do get better post surgery care by default, although nothing you can’t pay for as a non-pro athlete. Also, post surgery recovery is like at least 50% dependent on genetics; I could run after 3 months with zero in-person physio (surgery was during covid lockdown).
There are numerous people in this thread that apparently “misunderstood”…perhaps that isn’t on us. You have specifically said us normies don’t get access to the same surgeons and post-op programs (I.e. level of care). That is wrong. We do.
Hell I even had the EXACT same PT program as my surgeon gives to top end college players. Why? Because I wanted to get back on the ice. Yes even at 47 years of age when I had my surgery.
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PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
No. But they have access to potentially better surgeons that your insurance wont cover.
Yes. Sorry for being so unclear. The fact that they and/or the team they are employed by using tremendous amounts of money on this is what gets the access. Not the fact that they are athletes.
This is a made up % by you. There are a number of factors like age, condition of the person pre-injury, genetics, degree of structural damage, the rehab and care you get post-op, your own work ethic in the said rehab etc.
I have no idea why that is.
I already wrote you a pretty long list of things you wont be getting.
Why do you think you are making some point by saying you got physio from your insurance?
This will be the last one.. you literally said us normies don’t have access to the same level of surgeon and care that a professional athlete does. Yet I did. Others did. I know many, many people who have. Hell where I live, while not pro athletes the college complex in the states might as well be the same you can definitely go see the surgeons etc a massive athletic program uses and retains. Source? I play hockey with them.
You ended up falling back on to outlier treatments which are not remotely common to try to make your “point”.
Insurance in Canada doesn’t work like that, if you have OHIP (or whatever it’s called in other provinces) you will be covered for the surgery. Maybe that’s the misunderstanding here. The post op care is typically not covered unless you have separate coverage.
And yes that % is made up, I’m being facetious. Genetics/physical shape is the overwhelming determinant for surgery outcome, assuming you get the surgery done in a 1st world medical environment, followed by rehab.
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
Like... what wording would have been correct for me to use, so I didn't have to get dragged in to this weird argument?
We both now agree that there are situations when pro athletes have access to treatment you and I dont. But you are very very angry at me for something. What?
Can you be more specific.
Insurance in Canada does not work like what?
theguardianII
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2020
- 3,210
- 1,651
As expected the Canucks won this one Columbus was DFL after all.
Columbus came into the game with a number of injuries.
So two victories against the bottom two teams in the league both with more injuries than the relatively healthy Canucks.
Just to quickly chime in about surgeries in BC anyway, there is a list and list jumping is frowned upon. A bricklayer needs surgery as much as hockey player but the hockey player jumps the line?
That is one reason they go other places. The odd thing is IF the bricklayer's injury was on the job, Workers Comp does jump the line. But hockey players don't pay into Workers Comp.
Columbus came into the game with a number of injuries.
So two victories against the bottom two teams in the league both with more injuries than the relatively healthy Canucks.
Just to quickly chime in about surgeries in BC anyway, there is a list and list jumping is frowned upon. A bricklayer needs surgery as much as hockey player but the hockey player jumps the line?
That is one reason they go other places. The odd thing is IF the bricklayer's injury was on the job, Workers Comp does jump the line. But hockey players don't pay into Workers Comp.
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Just want to point out ACL's can heal on their own but doubtful while playing Hockey.
Spontaneous healing in complete ACL ruptures: a clinical and MRI study - PubMed
Level IV, therapeutic study. See Guidelines for Authors for a complete description of levels of evidence.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Seems like you are still not getting it. Health insurance that provides direct care in the US are companies like Kaiser. There is zero possibility where a patient gets care and they try to get out of it. They hire doctors because they own the hospitals and they provide all care from general to surgery and as long as the doctors authorize the treatment, it will be given. There is none of the shit you talk about how insurance companies tries to not pay you.Why are you talking about getting treatment without the insurance company paying for it?
What does this have to do with anything I am saying?
Now go back and read the PDF I gave you so you can understand how insurance companies decision making process works.
edit. if you want to be really brave.
Here you can read what kind of work doctors do that work for insurance companies:
Working for Health Insurance – Is This Really the Dark Side?
A physician shares her experience in an interview on working for a health insurance company.doctorscrossing.com
Since it seems you didn't know that actually happens.
People with insurance in the USA can get the same surgical care as any athlete. The issue is a lot of people don’t have insurance or if they do, their deductibles are crazy high.
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
ChuckNorris4Cup
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