Post-Game Talk: GM 2: Flames def. Canucks - 3-0

[VanillaCoke]

So people are now surprised that hutton is better than jordie benn offensively?!

 

[krutovsdonut]

i suspect benn and stecher are both struggling with lack of ice time to get into a rhythm. last night with all the pp time didn't help. i also kind of doubt hutton would have signed a cheap deal with us knowing he'd be behind hughes and edler in minutes. he's got a fresh start and a wide open shot with the kings to play 20 minutes and reboot his career.

 

[RobsonStreet]

They each created 8 high danger scoring chances, 6 each at ES. Xgoals were about 3 to 2.5 in favour of the flames. Removing the empty net shot which has an Xgoals value of about 0.9, the Canucks led the Xgoals battle by about 2.5 to 2.1

Vancouver Canucks @ Calgary Flames, 2019-10-05

Respectfully, I think you’re slicing the data in the wrong way. If you want to highlight the story of the game, look by period. In all situations, the Canucks got taken to the woodshed in the second period and made up ground in the game when it was no longer close. (Put another way, the Flames controlled the high leverage minutes.)

The Game Flow chart tells the tale. Overtaking the Flames in xG through the third matters a lot less when you’re already down two actual goals and Calgary has controlled the game to that point.

It’s a bit like saying, “the Canucks were unlucky to not have lost 2-1”.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Green better figure it out quick. I don’t think he’ll be an NHL head coach long if he doesn’t figure it out.

he and his staff are under pressure along with the players to live up to unrealistic expectations. any time you start seeing that many too many men penalties you wonder what's going on on the bench. i also wonder about the top 6 line combos being strictly defined when the team is struggling to score. that is not normal green.

there's a comment i've been thinking of in that locker room video with boeser and horvat right after boeser got signed where boeaser refers to himself as a "lean mean petey winger machine". he's saying that to the other centre he plays with on his first day of camp so it is a slightly loaded comment to me. it indicates that the line combos were predetermined to a significant degree and i also wondered then and wonder now if it was kind of a subtle shot at the coaching staff/management for that decision.

 

[4Twenty]

he and his staff are under pressure along with the players to live up to unrealistic expectations. any time you start seeing that many too many men penalties you wonder what's going on on the bench. i also wonder about the top 6 line combos being strictly defined when the team is struggling to score. that is not normal green.

there's a comment i've been thinking of in that locker room video with boeser and horvat right after boeser got signed where boeaser refers to himself as a "lean mean petey winger machine". he's saying that to the other centre he plays with on his first day of camp so it is a slightly loaded comment to me. it indicates that the line combos were predetermined to a significant degree and i also wondered then and wonder now if it was kind of a subtle shot at the coaching staff/management for that decision.

I must’ve heard that wrong. I thought Bo called Brock the Petey winger machine after Brock told him how much he weighed.

 

[sting101]

I can definitely see what people are saying about our defense and it concerns me that Hughes and Myers are playing as much as they are and Tanev looks like he may no longer be a good top4 if he keeps this up. I dont get the same confidence from Benn that he could step up in a short term capacity like Hutton could and hold the fort. Stecher can do it and they may have to re work things soon if Tanev cannot pull up his socks.

Anyways what i came to say is that our top line and 3rd line have been simply awful out of the gate. When you look around the league and see what other teams top players are doing ours have been invisible and combined with our pre season you have to be a little/lot concerned. No matter how well our defense plays we have to be able to score goals and our top guys have to find ways to break through. So far so bad.

Travis Green is under fire now. This is his lineup and these are his systems and players. So far i'm not a fan of his lineup decisions. The decision to ice the 3rd line he has, the gifting of the 1st line LW to Ferland after doing nothing in pre season, cutting Baertschi instaed of Schaller or Eriksson who cannot skate at NHL speed anymore. Giving Leivo such a huge role in our top pp unit and demoting Horvat to a 2nd unit. I know its early but Hughes will be running the top unit in no time and this team lacks playmaking and creativity. I'm really disappointed that Gaudette Baertschi Virtanen is not our 3rd scoring unit with a shut down line with Sutter Leivo Beagle

 

[4Twenty]

So people are now surprised that hutton is better than jamie benn offensively?!

I’m not. I think Hutton is good and better than he gets credit for here.

 

[sting101]

I’m not. I think Hutton is good and better than he gets credit for here.

I agree. I felt pretty strongly that he was close to being able to be a regular top4 with some consistency and attention to defensive details. We really have put unecessary pressure on Hughes and im not very confident that Benn Fantenberg or whoever comes up from Utica wont be a disater in a top 4 role. Hutton could have been a nice option to keep around. This one is on Green.

 

[MS]

Chris Tanev was excellent through preseason and in the first game, and that pairing was working well. The fact that Tanev had a lousy one-off game (primarily handling the puck in the offensive zone) doesn’t mean you rush to break that pairing up.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Chris Tanev was excellent through preseason and in the first game, and that pairing was working well. The fact that Tanev had a lousy one-off game (primarily handling the puck in the offensive zone) doesn’t mean you rush to break that pairing up.

Agreed. I don’t think defense has really been the backbreaker for us, either - the odd breakdown resulting in a goal is going to happen. Our 5 on 5 play and ability of our forwards to convert on offensive opportunities at this point is what is sinking us. Some of that will even out (our forwards won’t shoot zero forever), but the 5 on 5 mismatches are disconcerting.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

I suspect benn and stecher are both struggling with lack of ice time to get into a rhythm. last night with all the pp time didn't help.

Agreed.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Its inexcusable for the power play to be dead last in the NHL. The Canucks have: Hughes, Edler and Myers to select from on D. They have Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Miller and Ferland to select from on offence. No excuses as the personnel is there, the coaches need to do a better job of deployment.

 

[vanarchy]

Have the team watch the game in it's entirety after practice for all 4 days off.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I must’ve heard that wrong. I thought Bo called Brock the Petey winger machine after Brock told him how much he weighed.

you may be right.

 

[Pip]

Have the team watch the game in it's entirety after practice for all 4 days off.

You just know that Brandon Sutter would be the guy to point out everyone’s mistakes.

“Come on Hughes-y, you can’t let that happen bro!”

 

[mathonwy]

i suspect benn and stecher are both struggling with lack of ice time to get into a rhythm. last night with all the pp time didn't help. i also kind of doubt hutton would have signed a cheap deal with us knowing he'd be behind hughes and edler in minutes. he's got a fresh start and a wide open shot with the kings to play 20 minutes and reboot his career.

If this is the story that you need to tell yourself to sleep at night in peace as a Canuck fan in the face of the overwhelming amount of real life evidence that this management team actually doesn't know what they're doing nor do they have any effing clue how to manage (vets) and develop (rooks) competent smart skilled people than you do so because sleeping is important.

PS. Ben's career never actually started. The toxic culture of this organization pretty much guaranteed that.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Priority number 1 should be getting the top line going, they have looked awful the first 2 games and while Ferland is an excellent player, his playing style doesn’t mesh well with Pettersson and Boeser. They played much better with Miller or Leivo on their line; it’s all about chemistry. Priority number 2 the PP needs to pick it up in a hurry, personnel needs to change (Leivo out). There is zero movement and creativity, it doesn’t look dangerous at all.

 

[Zippgunn]

He’s not a good coach. I think he has exactly the people he wants to play the system he thinks will be effective. Everything seems to suggests he is heavily involved with player targets and acquisitions. So not a good coach and like the rest of management poor at player evaluations.

It comes down to needing a complete housecleaning.

People are finally starting to see what I have been seeing for awhile now; Green is simply not anything like a good coach. The almost pathological hatred for Willie D. here (mostly among the crowd that kept calling him "twitchy") blinded them to that fact; they kept cutting him slack and even, sometimes years after Willie D's dismissal, kept trying to blame stuff on the object of their hatred. I'm predicting Green is gone by the all star break and slides straight into a TV job because nobody else is going to hire him anytime soon.

 

[vanarchy]

We knew the bottom 6 was complete and utter trash and it is. To the surprise of no one.

What everyone should be panicking about is the performance of the top line if they don't get it together in the next string of games.

There is no amount of line juggling that is going to fix anything if EP and Boeser aren't producing as they should. The second line has been battling hard without success. I can't even say that about the first.

 

[CherryToke]

People are finally starting to see what I have been seeing for awhile now; Green is simply not anything like a good coach. The almost pathological hatred for Willie D. here (mostly among the crowd that kept calling him "twitchy") blinded them to that fact; they kept cutting him slack and even, sometimes years after Willie D's dismissal, kept trying to blame stuff on the object of their hatred. I'm predicting Green is gone by the all star break and slides straight into a TV job because nobody else is going to hire him anytime soon.

Nobody wants to listen to his illogical analysis on TV/Radio either.

He can go back to the AHL where he belongs.

 

[krutovsdonut]

If this is the story that you need to tell yourself to sleep at night in peace as a Canuck fan in the face of the overwhelming amount of real life evidence that this management team actually doesn't know what they're doing nor do they have any effing clue how to manage (vets) and develop (rooks) competent smart skilled people than you do so because sleeping is important.

PS. Ben's career never actually started. The toxic culture of this organization pretty much guaranteed that.

i am trying to understand how that mess of a post contradicts my viewpoint that hutton would refuse to sign a show me deal with the canucks because the kings can offer him a better opportunity.

the canucks overpaid hutton on his previous deal. as a result they made the correct decision not to qualify him. once he was a ufa, the canucks were not a particularly attractive destination. edler and hughes are ahead of him on the depth chart and he would need one of them to go down or underperform to log the minutes he wants to advance his career. he was stagnated and boxed in and it would take a miracle for him to actually get ahead of either of them.

even after hutton missed the market and needed a show me deal the canucks were not an attractive destination for that either for the same reason. the kings were a way better option.

that's just a statement of reality. i wish him well.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Chris Tanev was excellent through preseason and in the first game, and that pairing was working well. The fact that Tanev had a lousy one-off game (primarily handling the puck in the offensive zone) doesn’t mean you rush to break that pairing up.

tanev is limited in the ozone and always has been. i see no harm in mixing it up.

 

[4Twenty]

Chris Tanev was excellent through preseason and in the first game, and that pairing was working well. The fact that Tanev had a lousy one-off game (primarily handling the puck in the offensive zone) doesn’t mean you rush to break that pairing up.

I just think it’s too much responsibility for Hughes too soon.

He’s getting put out against the other teams best players too much for my liking.

I don’t think Tanev was that bad. I just want Hughes getting softer offensive minutes and he and Myers seem like an ideal fit for what role.

Whether it’s Tanev or Stecher playing with Edler. I think it would lead to greater team successes.

 

[4Twenty]

tanev is limited in the ozone and always has been. i see no harm in mixing it up.

I actually don’t think he’s limited offensively beyond not having much of a shot. He’s a good passer. Had great vision.

Think of the Edmonton game. He set up Petey on the backdoor and if it was last year Petey it’s a goal.

 

[Hoghandler]

Chris Tanev was excellent through preseason and in the first game, and that pairing was working well. The fact that Tanev had a lousy one-off game (primarily handling the puck in the offensive zone) doesn’t mean you rush to break that pairing up.

We've seen enough to know Tanev is very poor in the attacking zone. As in, Gudbranson levels poor. It's nice to have Tanev to help Hughes defensively, but with Quinn getting the team into the offensive end with such ease, it would be beneficial to have a partner that can make the best of those opportunities. Hughes is the best playmaker on the backend - not a bad idea to have one of the better goal scoring dmen in the league there to finish off some of those passes.

The question is can Hughes and Myers adequately defend together. Won't know the answer to that until they play on the same pairing. Definitely something you attempt to do when heading for a home stand, with last change.