German football 2019/2020

[Evilo]

Not good enough defensively, not good enough offensively... you know... not good enough period.

 

[Cassano]

Flick has unlocked Goretzka’s potential. Imagine what he will do with Havertz next season.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

As for Guerreiro, HFboards search feature doesn't hit any of our discussion from months (or years?) back so I can't help your tired fingers here.

Just so we’re clear, this is what you claimed and never found any proof for.

responding to the guy who said Guerreiro needed to leave because he wasn't good enough to play, at any BVB position in fact and when Guerreiro gets praised here, says "well he's not a LB".

Of course, you can’t find proof for it because I didn’t say it.

I don’t care what you think of my opinion of the players on Leverkusen. Besides, you also left out all of the context of my quote about Havertz. It was about his end product, but why add context when you can once again claim something that wasn’t said?

I’ll leave that there. We don’t need to discuss this any further, but just so everyone is clear, your blatant mistruths or dishonest representations need to be exposed, especially considering you started this by mentioning these things. I didn’t say anything about your opinion.

 

[Evilo]

Oh you did. But HFBoards doesn't keep those posts, that's all.
The Havertz/Diaby post is there for everyone to see. No context needed.

 

[ItsFineImFine]

These fake added crowd noises on the Fox streams are bullshit, just gimme silence.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Hge wins for Mainz and Dortmnd yesterday. Union should start winning again, cos Fortna is getting closer. Werder needs a win vs. WOB. easier said than done.

 

[John Price]

 

[Bon Esprit]

The ref might be Bibiana. Cool girl. Werder is playing without their two best players.

 

[Cassano]

have to disagree with Leno. Bundesliga is pretty exciting when you’re watching Bayern Dortmund or Leipzig

agree with the title race part. Don’t see that changing in foreseeable future.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

have to disagree with Leno. Bundesliga is pretty exciting when you’re watching Bayern Dortmund or Leipzig

Clearly he's never heard of Kai... I mean if the only entertainment you get is the race for the title than yeah, sure its "boring" but there are other reasons to watch footy. By his same logic his team is boring and sad.

 

[Cassano]

Clearly he's never heard of Kai... I mean if the only entertainment you get is the race for the title than yeah, sure its "boring" but there are other reasons to watch footy. By his same logic his team is boring and sad.

Kai will be off to Bayern so same thing really

 

[les Habs]

have to disagree with Leno. Bundesliga is pretty exciting when you’re watching Bayern Dortmund or Leipzig

agree with the title race part. Don’t see that changing in foreseeable future.

I don't think the break did the league any favors which is unfortunate.

 

[Deficient Mode]

have to disagree with Leno. Bundesliga is pretty exciting when you’re watching Bayern Dortmund or Leipzig

agree with the title race part. Don’t see that changing in foreseeable future.

Meh, title race was pretty close last year. It just had the predictable ending. And Dortmund have upgraded their roster with Haaland, Brandt, and Hazard in place of Pulisic and Alcacer since then. If Sancho stays I'd imagine another close race next year if Bayern start slowly like they have the past couple seasons. They basically averaged 89 points per Bundesliga season starting with their treble season and through the Guardiola years (ignore 14-15 when they collapsed and lost 3 straight matches after securing the title). Past 4 seasons they will be at an 81.5 point average assuming they win out the rest of their games this year. That's a pace that Dortmund have come very close to in their best domestic campaigns, and I think they're more talented than ever, probably even if Sancho leaves.

It's not really about beating Bayern head to head nearly as much as it is about being more consistent at beating the worse teams, and the gap in talent and depth between Dortmund and the teams below them has continued to grow wider the past few years as the revenue gap has also grown wider.

I don't know; I'm not as pessimistic that Bayern will win the title every year until their squad really does look as talented as 2012-16 again.

 

[Cassano]

Meh, title race was pretty close last year. It just had the predictable ending. And Dortmund have upgraded their roster with Haaland, Brandt, and Hazard in place of Pulisic and Alcacer since then. If Sancho stays I'd imagine another close race next year if Bayern start slowly like they have the past couple seasons. They basically averaged 89 points per Bundesliga season starting with their treble season and through the Guardiola years (ignore 14-15 when they collapsed and lost 3 straight matches after securing the title). Past 4 seasons they will be at an 81.5 point average assuming they win out the rest of their games this year. That's a pace that Dortmund have come very close to in their best domestic campaigns, and I think they're more talented than ever, probably even if Sancho leaves.

It's not really about beating Bayern head to head nearly as much as it is about being more consistent at beating the worse teams, and the gap in talent and depth between Dortmund and the teams below them has continued to grow wider the past few years as the revenue gap has also grown wider.

I don't know; I'm not as pessimistic that Bayern will win the title every year until their squad really does look as talented as 2012-16 again.

Dortmund never got more than 81 points in their history.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Dortmund never got more than 81 points in their history.

Yep. And they have a better deeper team than they did in 2012 or 2016 too. Never said they will start alternating titles with Bayern or the title race will be neck-and-neck every year . They could have one hot year and win a title though. The level Bayern are at right now is just barely above where Dortmund were in their best seasons. Bayern won the title by 2 points last year. They clearly aren't in the same untouchable stratosphere they were those 4 years.

 

[Cassano]

Yep. And they have a better deeper team than they did in 2012 or 2016 too. Never said they will start alternating titles with Bayern or the title race will be neck-and-neck every year . They could have one hot year and win a title though. The level Bayern are at right now is just barely above where Dortmund were in their best seasons. Bayern won the title by 2 points last year. They clearly aren't in the same untouchable stratosphere they were those 4 years.

I think this is wishful thinking.

Last season was a fluke with bad luck/coaching for Bayern. They were clearly the best team if you look at xPts table.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I think this is wishful thinking.

Last season was a fluke with bad luck/coaching for Bayern. They were clearly the best team if you look at xPts table.

Do you think City is better than Liverpool this year too? Do you think last year's Bayern team was the best Bayern team of the past 6 years by a significant margin, or did they have to keep pouring on the gas longer and take more chances in matches because they weren't converting their chances early and often like they're used to? Goal conversion stats vary tremendously even over an entire season. And the gap to Dortmund had as much to do with Favres' teams almost always severely overperforming xg as with Bayern's cold finishing.

This was the third time in four seasons that Bayern had coaching drama in the fall or a slow start (they fired Ancelotti very quickly before it got too bad in 17-18). And they lost 2 of their first 4 matches under Flick too. I think it's just as wishful thinking that a new coach will definitely cure their fall fever for good that capped this season at 82 points despite dropping only 2 points in their last 16 matches. If they continue to be complacent in the fall, they will continue to be vulnerable to Dortmund putting together a good full season.

 

[Cassano]

Do you think City is better than Liverpool this year too? Do you think last year's Bayern team was the best Bayern team of the past 6 years by a significant margin, or did they have to keep pouring on the gas longer and take more chances in matches because they weren't converting their chances early and often like they're used to? Goal conversion stats vary tremendously even over an entire season. And the gap to Dortmund had as much to do with Favres' teams almost always severely overperforming xg as with Bayern's cold finishing.

This was the third time in four seasons that Bayern had coaching drama in the fall or a slow start (they fired Ancelotti very quickly before it got too bad in 17-18). And they lost 2 of their first 4 matches under Flick too. I think it's just as wishful thinking that a new coach will definitely cure their fall fever for good that capped this season at 82 points despite dropping only 2 points in their last 16 matches. If they continue to be complacent in the fall, they will continue to be vulnerable to Dortmund putting together a good full season.

I think in terms of coaching, Bayern seem pretty set with Flick. Playing exceptional style with the results to back it up. Ancelotti was washed up and Kovac was in over his head.

I would be more concerned with Dortmund's manager atm than Bayern's.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I think in terms of coaching, Bayern seem pretty set with Flick. Playing exceptional style with the results to back it up. Ancelotti was washed up and Kovac was in over his head.

I would be more concerned with Dortmund's manager atm than Bayern's.

The quality of the manager wasn't the question I raised. It's that they've been prone to dig themselves a hole early in the season across multiple managers, and then go on an incredible run after they change coaches (or not, as the case of 18-19 - which is all the more compelling evidence that it's down to the players rallying rather than the quality of the manager) only to do it again. They played great under Ancelotti his first season too. I think it's pretty naive to think that a first time head manager won't have a cold stretch at some point, or the players won't grow complacent again. Of course they're playing great under Flick. They played great under Heynckes in 17-18 and great after the first 12 matchdays under Kovac in 18-19 (outscoring opponents 65-15 in 22 matches).

Maybe they won't have a slow start next year but it's naive to assume they definitely won't because their first time in a top league head manager is way better at motivation/staying consistent/whatever you like than Carlo Ancelotti. I've said plenty of negative things about Favre, but that's another subject.

 

[alko]

How is it possible that Bayern is in Bundesliga so long so dominant? What they do, that the others teams dont? What must be done, to dethrone Bayern?

It is only about money?

 

[Albatros]

How is it possible that Bayern is in Bundesliga so long so dominant? What they do, that the others teams dont? What must be done, to dethrone Bayern?

It is only about money?

FC Bayern is a Bavarian institution that benefits of the structures it is a part of. Money is just the logical consequence. There's no other club that could achieve the same, for example Dortmund and Schalke might have a stronger base in terms of football, but they also come from a structurally weak region and there's little they can do about that.

 

[alko]

FC Bayern is a Bavarian institution that benefits of the structures it is a part of. Money is just the logical consequence. There's no other club that could achieve the same, for example Dortmund and Schalke might have a stronger base in terms of football, but they also come from a structurally weak region and there's little they can do about that.

I dont understand.

 

[Albatros]

I dont understand.

https://fcbayern.com/en/club/company/supervisory-board

 

[Gecklund]

How is it possible that Bayern is in Bundesliga so long so dominant? What they do, that the others teams dont? What must be done, to dethrone Bayern?

It is only about money?

They buy their rivals best players.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I wouldn't say that the structural advantage of being in Bavaria is such a huge factor. Sure, maybe in relation to Werder Bremen or Kaiserslautern..clubs from smaller cities without a lot of economic strength...but Dortmund is sitting in the most populous state of the country where a ton of corporations are headquartered and a lot of money goes around.

The difference is that Bayern is the undisputed number one in much of Bavaria, while Dortmund has to contend with Schalke and others in the Ruhr and of course once you get to Düsseldorf and Köln they are no longer seen as local in a meaningful way. The polycentric nature of NRW which has also led to a great density of popular football clubs hurts them more than anything in that regard.

But then there's also the difference in how the clubs have been run. Bayern have been run well for over 50 years. Dortmund were a mediocre club through the 70s and 80s before re-emerging as a relevant force around 1990. Club management had run the club into the ground in the late 60s/early 70s, financially and otherwise. Bayern made good choices until there was a critical mass of support and money to cover for bad choices.