German Football 2018/2019

[Pavel Buchnevich]

But, but weren't we told by our resident BvB expert Witsel wasn't very good (too old and slow IIRC) and Favre is an idiot, becase he don't play Goetze and Weigl. I'm confused.

Seriously: Dortmund will have a fine team in the future if they continue developing their young players. The team is still learning a new system, their coach is new and many of their players (esp. defence) are very young.
But my statement still stands: I don't think Weigl or Goetze fit the system and won't be part of the future of Borussia Dortmund.

You can find me where I ever said Witsel is a bad signing or bad player. Do I think Weigl’s best form is better than Witsel’s form? I do. Besides, why can’t they play together?

I think it’s fair to compliment Favre, while also acknowledging some of his decisions haven’t been the best. Goetze hadn’t even been making the bench until recently, and now he’s been important in some recent wins. I like the job Favre is doing. I’d just like to see him be a little more flexible with some decisions, mainly using Goetze as a #8, using Weigl-Witsel more often and starting Sancho and Pulisic at the same time.

 

[Bon Esprit]

You can find me where I ever said Witsel is a bad signing or bad player. Do I think Weigl’s best form is better than Witsel’s form? I do. Besides, why can’t they play together?

I think it’s fair to compliment Favre, while also acknowledging some of his decisions haven’t been the best. Goetze hadn’t even been making the bench until recently, and now he’s been important in some recent wins. I like the job Favre is doing. I’d just like to see him be a little more flexible with some decisions, mainly using Goetze as a #8, using Weigl-Witsel more often and starting Sancho and Pulisic at the same time.

We all know who it was, You weren't.
Weigl played like 100mins this season. If he's not hurt or recovering from injury Favre simply don't like what he is seeing during practise.
As for Goetze: I have nothing against the player, he is an established player and did a lot for team Germany and BvB. But I don't think he's in the future plans of Dortmund.

 

[Deficient Mode]

We all know who it was, You weren't.
Weigl played like 100mins this season. If he's not hurt or recovering from injury Favre simply don't like what he is seeing during practise.
As for Goetze: I have nothing against the player, he is an established player and did a lot for team Germany and BvB. But I don't think he's in the future plans of Dortmund.

I was wrong about how good Witsel is now. We'll see about the future. Players his age drop off rapidly. Pretty sure I said old, not slow. If Dortmund win now I suppose it was worth it.

Totally disagree about Weigl. He fits the system fine. He's just behind Witsel right now and not going to play in anyone else's stead. I don't see these players in training every day and it's not clear to me how much Weigl has become worse and how much of last year was the team being bad. When he's playing so little this year, it's not possible to judge.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Pretty hilarious the likes of Dahoud and Weigl were supposed to save Germany, yet they can't even break into Dortmund as out an out starters.

On this board no one gets more hype then German young stars.before my German fans come attacking I don't think they're bad or not talented but not as good as claimed. Just my 2 cents

 

[Deficient Mode]

Pretty hilarious the likes of Dahoud and Weigl were supposed to save Germany, yet they can't even break into Dortmund as out an out starters.

On this board no one gets more hype then German young stars.before my German fans come attacking I don't think they're bad or not talented but not as good as claimed. Just my 2 cents

I mean, I wouldn't be so quick to justify your judgment based on Favre's alone. Weigl was a clear starter in Dortmund for three years before this when healthy, so you're definitely wrong about that. I'd say injuries hurt his level and he lost some of his confidence/self-assuredness in buildup when Tuchel left. I'd also still rather have Weigl starting over Delaney based on what I've seen from both this year on the field.

I won't deny that this generation of German youngsters has disappointed, though.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I mean, I wouldn't be so quick to justify your judgment based on Favre's alone. Weigl was a clear starter in Dortmund for three years before this when healthy, so you're definitely wrong about that. I'd say injuries hurt his level and he lost some of his confidence/self-assuredness in buildup when Tuchel left. I'd also still rather have Weigl starting over Delaney based on what I've seen from both this year on the field.

I won't deny that this generation of German youngsters has disappointed, though.

... and Where was Dortmund in the years he was starting?

So, we are in agreement that German youngsters have underwhelmed despite constant overhyping.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Weigl was Dortmund's most important player his second season under Tuchel. He was one of the best holding mids in Europe that season, so I don't think it's a question of not being talented, but he plays a specific style of game, and recent coaches haven't had the use for him as Tuchel did. I also think DM is right that injuries haven't helped.

As for Dahoud, I didn't see that much of him at Gladbach, so I don't know how much he was just overrated and how much he's not played as well for Dortmund as he did at Gladbach. He's a good player, but I don't know that he's a starter level player at Dortmund now. He's good, and probably better than Delaney, but I think his decision making offensively is pretty bad and his defensive awareness also is pretty bad. Definitely a talented offensive player though who can play a good defensive game when he doesn't switch off.

 

[Deficient Mode]

... and Where was Dortmund in the years he was starting?

So, we are in agreement that German youngsters have underwhelmed despite constant overhyping.

About the same as they were the last few years under Klopp??? Dortmund were on pace to beat their own Bundesliga point record his first season until the last two matches of the season. Their start of the season was the same as this year - 5 wins, 2 draws. They played the highest level of any Dortmund side in the Bundesliga the past ten years. Their problem was that Bayern in those years had attained a level no other Bundesliga team ever could come within even 5 points of - a problem from which this year's Dortmund seem to have been liberated. After that first season, Dortmund sold their best attacker, their best midfielder, and their best defender and still made the CL quarterfinal the next year. Weigl was playing at a high level and starting for one of the ten best teams in Europe those two seasons. After that second season, he had a three month plus injury during the summer and Dortmund had their coaching crisis and underwhelming season. He wasn't a case of overhyping. Unless you want to be like a snob like your fellow Barca fan and not care until they reach a club on your level.

And anyway, I don't think midfield play is nearly as big of a reason for Dortmund's success so far this year as it was for Tuchel or even Klopp. They don't generate nearly as many chances passing through the middle of the field or forcing turnovers in the middle of the field as those two managers did, respectively. There is more attacking over the wings and counterattacks or semi-counterattacks that start from deep. Witsel isn't playing at a higher level than Weigl did his first couple years in Dortmund, but he also doesn't have to because he is playing a smaller role.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Weigl was Dortmund's most important player his second season under Tuchel. He was one of the best holding mids in Europe that season, so I don't think it's a question of not being talented, but he plays a specific style of game, and recent coaches haven't had the use for him as Tuchel did. I also think DM is right that injuries haven't helped.

As for Dahoud, I didn't see that much of him at Gladbach, so I don't know how much he was just overrated and how much he's not played as well for Dortmund as he did at Gladbach. He's a good player, but I don't know that he's a starter level player at Dortmund now. He's good, and probably better than Delaney, but I think his decision making offensively is pretty bad and his defensive awareness also is pretty bad. Definitely a talented offensive player though who can play a good defensive game when he doesn't switch off.

Again I'm not saying he isn't talented... he was just over hyped.

About the same as they were the last few years under Klopp??? Dortmund were on pace to beat their own Bundesliga point record his first season until the last two matches of the season. Their start of the season was the same as this year - 5 wins, 2 draws. They played the highest level of any Dortmund side in the Bundesliga the past ten years. Their problem was that Bayern in those years had attained a level no other Bundesliga team ever could come within even 5 points of - a problem from which this year's Dortmund seem to have been liberated. After that first season, Dortmund sold their best attacker, their best midfielder, and their best defender and still made the CL quarterfinal the next year. Weigl was playing at a high level and starting for one of the ten best teams in Europe those two seasons. After that second season, he had a three month plus injury during the summer and Dortmund had their coaching crisis and underwhelming season. He wasn't a case of overhyping. Unless you want to be like a snob like your fellow Barca fan and not care until they reach a club on your level.

Looking at the table it seems with him they only had one good year. His first year after that it kinda went to shit. Finishing 3rd and 4th. Mind you there isn't a direct correlation between him and the decline of Dortmund. However, he along with Dahoud were made out to be the next big things and saviours for Dortmund. Fair or not that was the narrative on here. Which is my point they are good young players but were not talking generational talents. This is what's lost on the German contingent here.

 

[Gecklund]

I remember someone saying Weigl-Dahoud would be the best midfield pairing in the world.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Again I'm not saying he isn't talented... he was just over hyped.



Looking at the table it seems with him they only had one good year. His first year after that it kinda went to ****. Finishing 3rd and 4th. Mind you there isn't a direct correlation between him and the decline of Dortmund. However, he along with Dahoud were made out to be the next big things and saviours for Dortmund. Fair or not that was the narrative on here. Which is my point they are good young players but were not talking generational talents. This is what's lost on the German contingent here.

Uhh, I never claimed they were generational talents. I said Weigl was a top 5 defensive midfielder, but significantly worse than Busquets, who is the "generational player" at his position. cgf was prone to hyperbole but he also hasn't been here in many months to read your gloating, so.

 

[YNWA14]

Witsel isn't playing at a higher level than Weigl did his first couple years in Dortmund, but he also doesn't have to because he is playing a smaller role.

Is this true though? Witsel is receiving pretty widespread acclaim and has been absolutely instrumental to Dortmund's hot start. Even if his expected role is a smaller one his overall impact seems to be greater.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Is this true though? Witsel is receiving pretty widespread acclaim and has been absolutely instrumental to Dortmund's hot start. Even if his expected role is a smaller one his overall impact seems to be greater.

He is playing well. I would say the biggest factors for Dortmund's improvement have been far better defensive play - in which the midfield is a factor, but the defensive line and team strategy/Favre's coaching play a bigger role probably - and catching opponents offguard with their counterattacks and change of pace in the second half. If you compared Witsel this year to Weigl under Tuchel, you'd almost certainly find that he's making far fewer penetrating passes that circumvent defenders and create space for attackers further up the field. A big part of that is that this Dortmund is just not set up to attack through the middle of the pitch in controlled possession, and Tuchel's teams certainly were. So it's largely a function of team context. Maybe Weigl's buildup play was mostly a product of Tuchel's style and coaching, and Witsel could have done just as well in that style. I don't know for sure.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I remember someone saying Weigl-Dahoud would be the best midfield pairing in the world.

We all know who that 'someone' would have been. Let's not kid ourselves here, all this 'passionate' discussion of soccer prospects on here occurs 99% between the same 4-5 users. So when people talk about so and so being overhyped they often enough are referring to 1 or 2 people doing the over-hyping and yet they talk about it as if it was some massive phenomenon. Dahoud in particular has never been hyped that much beyond that.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Uhh, I never claimed they were generational talents. I said Weigl was a top 5 defensive midfielder, but significantly worse than Busquets, who is the "generational player" at his position. cgf was prone to hyperbole but he also hasn't been here in many months to read your gloating, so.

Not calling you or anyone else out really. Nor I'm I gloating I have no ill-will towards Weigl or Dahoud. In fact I like both players and hope they fulfill their potential. Better for football that they do.

Dahoud in particular has never been hyped that much beyond that.

I said Germans! LOL

 

[Deficient Mode]

We all know who that 'someone' would have been. Let's not kid ourselves here, all this 'passionate' discussion of soccer prospects on here occurs 99% between the same 4-5 users. So when people talk about so and so being overhyped they often enough are referring to 1 or 2 people doing the over-hyping and yet they talk about it as if it was some massive phenomenon. Dahoud in particular has never been hyped that much beyond that.

Yep. The "overrated/underrated players" threads that occasionally pop up here are mostly the same thing: people complaining about one, maybe two posters rating a player differently than consensus here, rather than stating their own opinions relative to the consensus. The frequent appearance of Kroos as "overrated" (on this forum) in those threads is the perfect example: vast majority of the loudest posters here rate him far lower than consensus elsewhere.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Götze doing a lot to silence his critics this week.

 

[ecemleafs]

Sancho gets a goal or an assist every time he plays. Bids from rich english clubs this summer or next are going to be outrageous.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Zagadou had had such a dominant match before that...

Dortmund just didn't convert on their chances today like they did in their previous matches. Too bad because I thought they actually played their best first half of the season. The second half magic wasn't there though.

 

[ScottishCanuck]

Moronic from Zagadou.

So many wasted chances.

 

[ecemleafs]

that brun larsson missed a sitter and his passing his woeful. looked like one of those attackers who gets by on trying hard and running a lot today

 

[ScottishCanuck]

I criticised a Frenchman.

That means it's only a matter of time before Evilo goes on the attack.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Also, I think Selke fouled Zagadou first to get around him. Official should have called that.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That was a very weak performance from a mental aspect. Let Hertha back in the game twice when we could've had a 2, 3 goal lead, and then concede a late penalty.

 

[Evilo]

I criticised a Frenchman.

That means it's only a matter of time before Evilo goes on the attack.

Since I'm probably the poster here who criticizes the most french players, I hardly think so.