OT: General UFC/MMA/Boxing discussion IX

[Kriss E]

1) That's the thing, if DC retires in March as predicted he can be fighting for the vacant title the next PPV no problem. It's not quite the same as waiting for DC to get ready for another fight.

2) I agree but Stipe would've gladly fought Lesnar. So who cares. Is it okay that Lesnar fights for title if Stipe is champ? Stipe would've done it no problem.

3) Look, Dillashaw lost to Cruz by split decision and he nearly waited 2 years. Stipe got KO'd round 1. It happens. Stipe isn't getting shafted, it happens sometimes. He'll get a shot at title starting from April 2019, not even a year after he got KO'd in round 1 and facing no contender.

4) I'm not sure what Jones has to do with anything. Jones refused to fight DC at HW and refused to give DC a title shot at LHW if he wins back title. DC has said if Brock fight fails, then Jones at LHW is possible. So Jones fight is very unlikely.

Stipe may be the HW champ to defend the most times(3) but that number is still measly. Brock Lesnar defended the title successfully twice too whatever, it's not THAT special. Don't forget Brock and guys like Cain(2 defences, 2 time champ) would've had potentially more if not for injuries. Brock with a intestinal issue and Cain's back.

Oh, and a note about Brock. He was caught cheating like Jones but I'm not claiming he's the GOAT or even worthy of a fight. All I'm saying is if the champ isn't holding up the division and staying active then whatever. If Brock passes the USADA testing then so be it.

1- Stipe wants a rematch, not to see DC retire and fight for vacant title.

2- Sure, circumstances matter. If Stipe beat DC, well strong chance DC moves out of HW division. Or, if fight was very close, maybe he gives DC rematch. Who knows.

3- Again. Circumstances. Stipe isn't bitching over Lewis fight.

4- Fact is Jones is back, which could mess up the schedule. You talk as if everything is a done deal but that's not the case. Things constantly change, so you never know.
And again, they're not young fighters.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

1- Stipe wants a rematch, not to see DC retire and fight for vacant title.

2- Sure, circumstances matter. If Stipe beat DC, well strong chance DC moves out of HW division. Or, if fight was very close, maybe he gives DC rematch. Who knows.

3- Again. Circumstances. Stipe isn't *****ing over Lewis fight.

4- Fact is Jones is back, which could mess up the schedule. You talk as if everything is a done deal but that's not the case. Things constantly change, so you never know.
And again, they're not young fighters.

1) Well DC is retiring. So it is what it is. He said if brock fails he'll fight Stipe.

2) I'm not talking about a DC rematch. I'm talking about fact if Lesnar was on table for Stipe he'd sure as hell welcome him skipping the line.

3) I assume you mean DC fight? He got KO'd in round 1.

4) Speaking of Jones, he's skipping the line. 1 approved fight since USADA came in over 3 years ago. He seems to think beating DC while on roids counts(DC thinks it counts as a loss too). So why doesn't Lesnar beating a top 7-8(at the time) Mark Hunt count as making him a legit heavyweight? Jones failed USADA testing twice and was marked as suspicious at UFC 182.

I get it, it's an extreme because Jones has proven a lot more than Lesnar but it's all the same shit. They throw cheaters into big matchups if they have marketability all the time. If Jones sold 50k PPVs they'd let him earn the title shot. Same with Lesnar.

All it comes down to is Stipe wants to avenge his loss. Okay, how come he didn't care to avenge his loss to Struve?

It's all good and I get it but he did get KO'd in round 1...People don't want to see a CM vs Khabib rematch and he lasted till round 4. I'm not saying CM won't get it but money talks. Highest PPV record for MMA does help your cause.

UFC 226's buyrate was pitiful for that match. 380k buys and a 1st round KO. What leverage does Stipe have?

I really really like Stipe but it is what it is. You got KO'd in first round, your title streak isn't that impressive. Lesnar, Cain and others hit 2 defenses and one guy is a f***ing WWE guy. C'mon.

Again, Stipe will get his shot again but he has no leverage right now.

 

[Kriss E]

1) Well DC is retiring. So it is what it is. He said if brock fails he'll fight Stipe.

2) I'm not talking about a DC rematch. I'm talking about fact if Lesnar was on table for Stipe he'd sure as hell welcome him skipping the line.

3) I assume you mean DC fight? He got KO'd in round 1.

4) Speaking of Jones, he's skipping the line. 1 approved fight since USADA came in over 3 years ago. He seems to think beating DC while on roids counts(DC thinks it counts as a loss too). So why doesn't Lesnar beating a top 7-8(at the time) Mark Hunt count as making him a legit heavyweight? Jones failed USADA testing twice and was marked as suspicious at UFC 182.

1) He said it, he didn't do it. Two very different things. We will see.

2) I'm saying if Stipe beat DC, and was then offered to give DC a rematch or Lesnar, maybe he goes for DC again. Who knows.

3) No. You mentioned TJ and how he waited for his turn again. My point was yes, he did, but Cruz wasn't fighting some guy that had 1 fight in the UFC in 7 years, for which he tested positive PEDs. You realize how incredibly ridiculous this is?? Because it really doesn't feel like you get the magnitude of the silliness here.
TJ watched Cruz go at it vs Faber and Garbrandt. Legit guys. That is why I brought up Lewis, as he's a ''legit'' contender now. Stipe is not annoyed about Lewis getting a shot, it's about Lesnar.
If Brock was a legit contender and regular UFC fighter, he wouldn't be annoyed with this.

4) I can't believe you are comparing Lesnar to Jones. That's just flat out insulting. I know you hate Jones but give your head a shake mate.

I get it, it's an extreme because Jones has proven a lot more than Lesnar but it's all the same ****. They throw cheaters into big matchups if they have marketability all the time. If Jones sold 50k PPVs they'd let him earn the title shot. Same with Lesnar.

All it comes down to is Stipe wants to avenge his loss. Okay, how come he didn't care to avenge his loss to Struve?

It's all good and I get it but he did get KO'd in round 1...People don't want to see a CM vs Khabib rematch and he lasted till round 4. I'm not saying CM won't get it but money talks. Highest PPV record for MMA does help your cause.

UFC 226's buyrate was pitiful for that match. 380k buys and a 1st round KO. What leverage does Stipe have?

I really really like Stipe but it is what it is. You got KO'd in first round, your title streak isn't that impressive. Lesnar, Cain and others hit 2 defenses and one guy is a ****ing WWE guy. C'mon.

Again, Stipe will get his shot again but he has no leverage right now.

Jones was suspended in his prime as a Champ. He's never really lost a fight. He is still in prime age.
Lesnar...he's fought once in 7 years. He beat 42 yo Mark Hunt, two years ago. His last UFC legit win was versus Carwin...8 1/2 years ago.
Put both those guys on the roster, Jones shoots straight to number 1 LHW contention because of his skills.
Lesnar, I wouln't put him in top 8.
WTF are you doing comparing Jones with Lesnar. Almost zero similarities.

Right. Money talks. That is what I said and Stipe knows. Not sure why he should just shut up and accept it though. I'd be very annoyed to see this shit show favored over me as well if I were in his shoes.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

1) He said it, he didn't do it. Two very different things. We will see.

2) I'm saying if Stipe beat DC, and was then offered to give DC a rematch or Lesnar, maybe he goes for DC again. Who knows.

3) No. You mentioned TJ and how he waited for his turn again. My point was yes, he did, but Cruz wasn't fighting some guy that had 1 fight in the UFC in 7 years, for which he tested positive PEDs. You realize how incredibly ridiculous this is?? Because it really doesn't feel like you get the magnitude of the silliness here.
TJ watched Cruz go at it vs Faber and Garbrandt. Legit guys. That is why I brought up Lewis, as he's a ''legit'' contender now. Stipe is not annoyed about Lewis getting a shot, it's about Lesnar.
If Brock was a legit contender and regular UFC fighter, he wouldn't be annoyed with this.

4) I can't believe you are comparing Lesnar to Jones. That's just flat out insulting. I know you hate Jones but give your head a shake mate.

1) He said he'll make more money not fighting so we'll see.

2) I doubt it but no way to prove either way.

3) Cruz fought once in 5 years before he got that title shot and didn't even award TJ a rematch.

Also, DC is very active so it's all good to me. If you fight 2-3 title fights in 12 months good on you if you can sneak in a super fight after. I don't care.

If he fights no one and waits for money fights then yeah, i'm with you.

Stipe was annoyed about Lewis getting a shot actually. Stipe wanted an immediate rematch. He just knew he had less of an argument with Lewis.

4) I don't think Brock deserves the fight either. I'm just pointing out how inconsistent UFC has been. Whether its Jones being awarded title fights after drugs, hit and runs and PEDs or Lesnar it's all the same. Then we see TJ have to wait 2 years for a fight, no rematch. How did Cruz fight 2 other people but not TJ?

You think Stipe would forgive DC if DC fought Ngannou, Overeem, JDS and everyone else and made him wait? Do you think he cares if it's lesnar? He has more ammunition because it's lesnar but he refuses to fight ANYONE unless its for the title. So if DC if facing true contenders or Lesnar, he won't fight unless its for title.

Jones was suspended in his prime as a Champ. He's never really lost a fight. He is still in prime age.
Lesnar...he's fought once in 7 years. He beat 42 yo Mark Hunt, two years ago. His last UFC legit win was versus Carwin...8 1/2 years ago.
Put both those guys on the roster, Jones shoots straight to number 1 LHW contention because of his skills.
Lesnar, I wouln't put him in top 8.
WTF are you doing comparing Jones with Lesnar. Almost zero similarities.

Right. Money talks. That is what I said and Stipe knows. Not sure why he should just shut up and accept it though. I'd be very annoyed to see this **** show favored over me as well if I were in his shoes.

Regardless of what you think of Mark Hunt, he was ranked top 8 2 years ago. He's currently top 10 now. So 42 or 48, that's the ranking he earned and Lesnar beat him so he would've been ranked higher.

Stipe defended the belt 3 times and got KO'd round 1.

On topic of Brock(who had most defense record at HW before stipe and is a bigger draw).

Brock defended belt twice, lost by TKO in round 1(as opposed to KO). Brock is and was bigger draw, did he get an immediate rematch?

When Cain Velasquez(He won belt twice, 2 defenses. So he's won 4 HW title fights, exactly like Stipe) did he get an immediate rematch after losing to JDS? Nope.

The Cain won again, did he get an immediate rematch after losing to Werdum? Nope.

4 HW title match wins a piece but Stipe demands immediate rematch after a 1st round KO but Cain being submitted in round 3 got him none.

Maybe having 4 HW title match wins isn't that impressive?

There's even Randy Couture. He has 5 HW title match wins and a long streak as LHW champion. Surely...he would get an immediate rematch after losing the HW belt both times? Nope.

You're painting this as a Brock is in line issue. This is a "I won't fight any match but a title match" issue. Stipe wants a shot at title next. It being lesnar or not changes nothing, he wants a title shot. He doesn't want to fight anyone else.

 

[Kriss E]

1) He said he'll make more money not fighting so we'll see.

2) I doubt it but no way to prove either way.

3) Cruz fought once in 5 years before he got that title shot and didn't even award TJ a rematch.

Also, DC is very active so it's all good to me. If you fight 2-3 title fights in 12 months good on you if you can sneak in a super fight after. I don't care.

If he fights no one and waits for money fights then yeah, i'm with you.

Stipe was annoyed about Lewis getting a shot actually. Stipe wanted an immediate rematch. He just knew he had less of an argument with Lewis.

4) I don't think Brock deserves the fight either. I'm just pointing out how inconsistent UFC has been. Whether its Jones being awarded title fights after drugs, hit and runs and PEDs or Lesnar it's all the same. Then we see TJ have to wait 2 years for a fight, no rematch. How did Cruz fight 2 other people but not TJ?

You think Stipe would forgive DC if DC fought Ngannou, Overeem, JDS and everyone else and made him wait? Do you think he cares if it's lesnar? He has more ammunition because it's lesnar but he refuses to fight ANYONE unless its for the title. So if DC if facing true contenders or Lesnar, he won't fight unless its for title.

3) Cruz fought that little due to injuries. Again, nothing to do with Brock's case.
4) UFC is completely inconsistent, you don't need to show me this. They have huge conflict of interests and have no standards for contention or earning title shots.
But no, it's not AT ALL the same between Jones and Lesnar. Not at all. One can make a case for Jones, agree or disagree, you can make a case. There is zero case to be made for Lesnar. None.

I don't care if he forgives him. I'm saying I understand why he's annoyed. I would also understand his annoyance if DC kept refusing to fight him. Ya.

Regardless of what you think of Mark Hunt, he was ranked top 8 2 years ago. He's currently top 10 now. So 42 or 48, that's the ranking he earned and Lesnar beat him so he would've been ranked higher.

Stipe defended the belt 3 times and got KO'd round 1.

On topic of Brock(who had most defense record at HW before stipe and is a bigger draw).

Brock defended belt twice, lost by TKO in round 1(as opposed to KO). Brock is and was bigger draw, did he get an immediate rematch?

When Cain Velasquez(He won belt twice, 2 defenses. So he's won 4 HW title fights, exactly like Stipe) did he get an immediate rematch after losing to JDS? Nope.

The Cain won again, did he get an immediate rematch after losing to Werdum? Nope.

4 HW title match wins a piece but Stipe demands immediate rematch after a 1st round KO but Cain being submitted in round 3 got him none.

Maybe having 4 HW title match wins isn't that impressive?

There's even Randy Couture. He has 5 HW title match wins and a long streak as LHW champion. Surely...he would get an immediate rematch after losing the HW belt both times? Nope.

You're painting this as a Brock is in line issue. This is a "I won't fight any match but a title match" issue. Stipe wants a shot at title next. It being lesnar or not changes nothing, he wants a title shot. He doesn't want to fight anyone else.

Honestly, that's a lot of nothing, no offense. There is no consistency, you said it yourself, so you pointing out how other fighters had to wait is irrelevant. I never denied this.
I am saying Stipe has a fair point in being pissed to see Lesnar get a title shot. If DC was just fighting top HWs, and Stipe would be refusing to fight versus contenders to earn his way back, you'd have a point. Not the case here however as they are setting up a joke of a fight between DC and Lesnar.
You can say that Stipe would still refuse and it has nothing to do with Lesnar, but that's unprovable at this point.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

@Kriss E

Uh that’s exactly what Stipe is doing. He’s refusing any fight that’s not for the title.

He said he wants title shot or nothing.

 

[Kriss E]

@Kriss E

Uh that’s exactly what Stipe is doing. He’s refusing any fight that’s not for the title.

He said he wants title shot or nothing.

Euh..ya...and he has every right to say that when they're willing to give Lesnar a title fight out of nowhere.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Euh..ya...and he has every right to say that when they're willing to give Lesnar a title fight out of nowhere.

Before UFC 226:

“No, probably not, [I wouldn’t fight Brock] right now. I’d do it, but not right away,” Miocic continued. “I plan on [taking a break after my daughter is born]. I mean, it’s the plan. I gotta enjoy my daughter.”

That said, Miocic wouldn’t necessarily overlook Lesnar if the two ever did come together inside of the cage. Despite fighting just once since 2011 — a decision win over Mark Hunt at UFC 200 that was later overturned to a no contest due to a failed drug test — Lesnar is a very dangerous opponent for any heavyweight in the world, the champion included.

“Everyone’s tough, it doesn’t matter,” Miocic said. “Everyone can win on any given night. It’s the fight game. Honestly, like I said, I don’t really care what’s happening outside of it right now, my focus is on July 7th. Good for Brock, good for Curtis [Blaydes], I wish nothing but the best for them, but right now all I care about is DC, July 7th.”

After UFC 226:

“It was a shit show and it was disrespectful,” Miocic told ESPN. “I didn’t think that was what the UFC was all about. How can you give a guy a title shot who hasn’t fought in over two years, is suspended, and his last fight is a no-contest because he was taking PEDs?”

Miocic, 35, said he's hopeful the UFC will consider booking an immediate rematch, as he believes it's the professional thing to do. When asked if he would accept any other option for his next fight, Miocic responded, "No."

On UFC 330:

“Yeah I saw the fight. I saw ‘DC’ beat a guy with a bunch of Instagram followers, with one hand,” Miocic said, when asked if he’d watched the fight between Cormier and Lewis.


“I offered myself to fight ‘DC’ on that card and he said no. They told me that he wasn’t available and literally a week later, he is fighting Lewis. It was annoying (watching the fight), it should be me,” he added. “There’s a ton of guys who never defend the belt and they get title shot rematches. I defended it three times, did it as favor for a super fight and I don’t get a rematch?”

Essentially, he'll allow brock to cut the line but if DC does it...that's ridiculous.

He was challenged by Curtis Blaydes and JDS I believe, he rejected both offers and confirmed he will only fight for the title or nothing.

Stipe is not annoyed about Lewis getting a shot, it's about Lesnar.

If you think he thinks good of Lewis, he doesn't, says he's a 'guy with a bunch of Instagram followers'
​

-----------------

So yeah...you're wrong on the details of this one. Do I understand stipe? Sure. He's done a good job at HW and wants a rematch but this goes back to before UFC 226.

Stipe was insulted the UFC could want a hype train in Ngannou to win the fight. He refused to let Dana White put the belt around his waist and was livid about it.

When the UFC asked him to fight DC he said yes, they give him a pay bump which he claimed "was first time he was happy with his pay" and now he did it as a favor? Since when is fighting a fight where you get paid more a favor? It's your job to fight...

I sincerely hope Stipe gets a title shot his next fight. It's 1000% cool with me but its hard to sympathize when he's kinda being a baby about it. If he took a fight and won and said "DC is running from me" everyone would be sympathetic.

If DC was just fighting top HWs, and Stipe would be refusing to fight versus contenders to earn his way back, you'd have a point.

I do have a point then.

You can say what you want but DC wasn't even fully healed and he was fighting again. My bet is DC will fight 2 guys before Stipe fights one.

 

[Kriss E]

Before UFC 226:





After UFC 226:





On UFC 330:





Essentially, he'll allow brock to cut the line but if DC does it...that's ridiculous.

He was challenged by Curtis Blaydes and JDS I believe, he rejected both offers and confirmed he will only fight for the title or nothing.



If you think he thinks good of Lewis, he doesn't, says he's a 'guy with a bunch of Instagram followers'
​

-----------------

So yeah...you're wrong on the details of this one. Do I understand stipe? Sure. He's done a good job at HW and wants a rematch but this goes back to before UFC 226.

Stipe was insulted the UFC could want a hype train in Ngannou to win the fight. He refused to let Dana White put the belt around his waist and was livid about it.

When the UFC asked him to fight DC he said yes, they give him a pay bump which he claimed "was first time he was happy with his pay" and now he did it as a favor? Since when is fighting a fight where you get paid more a favor? It's your job to fight...

I sincerely hope Stipe gets a title shot his next fight. It's 1000% cool with me but its hard to sympathize when he's kinda being a baby about it. If he took a fight and won and said "DC is running from me" everyone would be sympathetic.



I do have a point then.

You can say what you want but DC wasn't even fully healed and he was fighting again. My bet is DC will fight 2 guys before Stipe fights one.

You're right, I did not have full details on this one.
I just think the Lesnar fight is ridiculous. UFC has become quite the joke.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

You're right, I did not have full details on this one.
I just think the Lesnar fight is ridiculous. UFC has become quite the joke.

As opposed to when Lesnar fought for title years ago?

It's all the same. The idea of super fights being more prevalent now is a little ridiculous. They've already been around.

It's not like there's celebrity MMA fights to fill in cards.

I'm a big fan of prime Lesnar. He's a monster. As I said earlier in this thread is that he's lazy in WWE and getting a free pass in MMA. It's too bad. I'm sure he can still ragdoll some heavyweights who can't handle his takedown and don't have cardio and he could've earned top 5 spot if he stayed in sport for more than one fight.

For instance, not convinced Lewis wins against him either. Maybe not Ngannou either but it depends on if Brock can take a punch these days.

 

[Kriss E]

As opposed to when Lesnar fought for title years ago?

It's all the same. The idea of super fights being more prevalent now is a little ridiculous. They've already been around.

It's not like there's celebrity MMA fights to fill in cards.

I'm a big fan of prime Lesnar. He's a monster. As I said earlier in this thread is that he's lazy in WWE and getting a free pass in MMA. It's too bad. I'm sure he can still ragdoll some heavyweights who can't handle his takedown and don't have cardio and he could've earned top 5 spot if he stayed in sport for more than one fight.

For instance, not convinced Lewis wins against him either. Maybe not Ngannou either but it depends on if Brock can take a punch these days.

Lesnar is not lazy. You cannot be lazy and be at his level. It doesn't happen man. He's just not that good of a MMA guy. He got his 5 minutes of fame in the UFC, that's it. Nothing more to it.

UFC has become more of a joke with the current CM and Khabib handling. I am 99% sure they had their hand in the CM-bus incident.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Demetrious Johnson, Eddie Alvarez announced for ONE Championship world grand prix slots
I'm a sucker for fighting tournaments so I really like what they're doing with them right off the bat. This always feels very nostalgic to me because there used to be a ton of those back in the day.

 

[1specter]

current CM

Double entendre, I like it!

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Lesnar is not lazy. You cannot be lazy and be at his level. It doesn't happen man. He's just not that good of a MMA guy. He got his 5 minutes of fame in the UFC, that's it. Nothing more to it.

UFC has become more of a joke with the current CM and Khabib handling. I am 99% sure they had their hand in the CM-bus incident.

I said Brock is lazy in WWE actually. I think he’ll show up and work in the UFC fight. I guess you have to or you’ll be KO’d.

 

[pistolpete11]

Demetrious Johnson, Eddie Alvarez announced for ONE Championship world grand prix slots
I'm a sucker for fighting tournaments so I really like what they're doing with them right off the bat. This always feels very nostalgic to me because there used to be a ton of those back in the day.

Yeah, the UFC needs to get on board. Creating the 165lb division with a tournament to decide the first champ just makes so much sense.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Can't give GSP Khabib, because he's got to pay his dues, but gives Lesnar to DC. Can't make this shit up. Dana White is so full of shit he is destroying the UFC and turning it into a complete circus imo. He's done a lot of good growing the sport etc, but his time is up, he definitely needs to go.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Can't give GSP Khabib, because he's got to pay his dues, but gives Lesnar to DC. Can't make this **** up. Dana White is so full of **** he is destroying the UFC and turning it into a complete circus imo. He's done a lot of good growing the sport etc, but his time is up, he definitely needs to go.

My guess is if Lesnar beats DC he'd actually defend the title.

If GSP beats Khabib he'd vacate.

I'm not saying it justifies it but I can that as one thing in lesnar's favor.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Floyd Mayweather, Rizin FF announce fight vs. Tenshin Nasukawa for Dec. 31 in Japan
Under kickboxing rules maybe ? It's not clear at the moment. Nasukawa has fought under both kickboxing and MMA rules before but I just can't picture Mayweather taking that risk.

Cancelled.

 

[MD thaivuN]

I assume Floyd saw the speed of Tenshin's kicks and realized he shouldn't fight him if it's not a full-on boxing bout

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

My guess is Rizin was really pushing for either a mixed rules or a straight kickboxing fight and he thought about it for 2 seconds and realized he'd probably get hurt pretty bad .

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

ONE Championship announces former UFC champ Miesha Tate to join promotion as Vice President

ONE continues to raid the ''former UFC headliners'' closet.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Really wanted perry to win but carrone wins easy.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Perry has been lackluster for a few fights in a row now. I'm not 100% sure Jackson Wink is the right camp for his skill set.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Wow what a fight. What a finish.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Wow what a fight. What a finish.

Crazy good fight, too bad, I had zombie winning the fight by a hair before that brutal elbow. I've never seen anything like it.